Observations of the bolt rifle scene.

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There seems to be an incredible number of people who don't seem to get the fact that manufacturers build what SELLS.

Sales figures don't lie, inexpensive guns outsell highend guns by a large margin.

I would imagine many of the CEO's of gun companies would love to be able to build the "perfect, old school classic", but their job is to build what sells, AND make a profit with ever thinning margins
 
my stuff gets beat up pretty good and i don't cry about it. you don't shoot off barricades or concrete culverts or out of vehicles very long before you've got scratches and scrapes on everything you own. it was made to be used, not to look at behind glass.
The way I look at it, I'm an old warrior with honorable scars. Why should my rifle be any different?
 
You got A pretty good rifle for cheep in the old days. I have one of these and it is Still A beauty
 

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You got A pretty good rifle for cheep in the old days. I have one of these and it is Still A beauty

That's a $850 rifle, adjusted for inflation.

How nice a new mauser derived rifle can you get for $850 these days?
 
There seems to be an incredible number of people who don't seem to get the fact that manufacturers build what SELLS.
I think everybody gets that. Just because some prefer older and/or higher end rifles doesn't mean they are unaware of what's driving the market.
 
The OP posted in a way that appears to be unaware of why the market doesn't have his favorites - which are upscale.

Now, there are some reasons he's not seeing them - first, they sold quickly, and it takes a lot longer to get another if they are in higher demand. That is exactly what some makers do. Take the reissue of the Colt 1903 pistol - aside from the dubious marketing logic, there's only going to be a very limited number made. When they appear on the shelf they won't last long at any price.

Secondly, those pistols will largely be ordered up and never even make it to display. Same for the better bolt guns, if you are looking for one knowing they aren't just sitting around waiting to be sold, you place an order and get it coming to you - as so many have advised.

Also, corporate and store managers aren't going to stock high end items very often. I recently visited the Cabela's in Springdale, oh yeah, really nice higher end guns on display there - and about the only store in that metro to do so. Walmart? No way they will clutter there shelf with expensive bolt guns that don't move in comparison to those that will turn over three times faster.

That's the store economics - all those lesser priced guns may have less profit, but they generate cash flow even if it's in smaller increments. People buy more of them, they turn over, the cash flow overall is higher. On a monthly basis the collective gun sales in dollars at Walmart in the Springdale-Fayetteville corridor is likely MUCH higher on inexpensive guns than the one higher end display at Cabela's. Dozens of working men and shooters buying lower priced firearms generally buy more, and the store's overall net more profit, than just a few higher end buyers. Three cheaper guns can generate as much if not more profit than one better grade one. They certainly generate three times more traffic.

There is also the current trends - and slick bolt guns aren't the focus of the industry OR society these days. Bolt guns aren't getting outlawed, and aren't getting the press against them, and aren't being used in combat overseas, and don't get video footage at a hostage standoff, or aren't being used by terrorists in the street of Paris. Bolt guns aren't getting any play as a token of power or symbol of masculinity. They are refined and elegant instruments of taste - at least in comparison to the raw power that the media likes to hype concerning military sporting rifles.

That's not a slick elegant Howa with Leupold glass in "American Sniper." Slick elegant bolt guns are now a niche product - they lost their mainstream appeal because of the AWB and being politically correct. The typical Remington 700 with high gloss finish, white spacers, polished blued steel, and high powered caliber is no longer coveted by the masses. Hasn't been for decades. And Remington's QC issues are simply driving another nail in the coffin.

And I could go on about the public's current enchantment with blasting rounds as rapidly as possible, which implies their love affair with self loading high capacity firearms. It should be apparent - not only in the racks at the gun store or few retailers who handle them, tho - bolt guns are on the decline, it matches what historically has been seen to happen with other types of firearms, and the lack of widespread choices in higher end models is a telling symptom of that fact.

Like buying a Garand from the CMP, we are seeing the last days of their availability, and likely in the next decade they will decline even further. Like muscle cars, tho, their popularity is limited by a demographic that is passing - and when their estates sell, then many will resurface, but there could be a drastic writedown in their value.

Might see them at a $200 police turn in so gun dealers can clear their shelves for American made Ak's . . .
 
Take a look at post #11.
My first rifle came from sears...a Winchester '94...'67!

Only the city is different. I am in Nashville.
The wood on mine is just absolutely beautiful.

Mark
 
SEARS has been mentioned a few times in this thread. I've got a SEARS model 53 .30-06. It is a post '64 Winchester. One of my favorite rifles...even with the pressed "checkering."

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im am of the generation of black plastic stock rifles and nasty blueing jobs they are cheap they shoot good enough for deer/hogs there are way better rifles out there than savage axis ect..but they can be had for 300 out the door so my generation will opt for multiple cheap guns in different cals insted of saving the cash to get a higher end rifle and i think the big gun companys know that and in order to stay open they have to cater to such ones just my opinion though.
 
This post caught my eye. I agree, it is about volume now. I don't get black plastic guns. I get that they sell, but not why people buy them. Every scratch on a wood stock tells a story. I guess the rational is just that it either looks "tactical" or that it costs less and still gets the job done. The price differential between wood and plastic must be too high in relation to the value of the consumer for the looks of the wood/bluing.

Also, I don't think some people even like the look of wood, which is fine and personal choice. Even for the same price they would pick the synth stock. They paint their furniture and cabinets at their home or have metal furniture and tile floor.

I will say I am turned off by some of the cr_ppy looking wood on guns today. No wonder people don't buy. It almost looks like plastic wood. When I bought my CZ I would only buy off an online add where I could see the actual wood grain and color (no local dealers)

All my rifles are wood with the exception of an AR. Times are changing.
 
I see this attitude a lot. This is the golden age for bolt rifles IMO. You have to look for them but that was always the case where I live. People look in Wally World and other box stores and they are surprised to see junk rifles. LGS's sell more of the cheap stuff so they put it on the shelves. But that doesn't mean there are no great guns out there. I know several places where I can go in and buy a Cooper if I so choose. Or even better (because of the price to quality ratio) a CZ. I know a shop that keeps about 10 of them on the shelves or they did before the panic anyway. I bought a Savage 12 LRPV there too and that's about the top of the line for Savage. It is a fine rifle IMO. Maybe not the very best but I can't afford the very best anyway.

The thing is I can go to a store like Cabellas and buy a really high quality gun if I want to pay the price. They don't sell them cheap. But I can buy a high quality gun off the net too. And there are LOTS of good choices around if you look for them.

I think there is a lot of nostalgia for older guns. People forget that those Winchesters were selling for big bucks back before 1964. That's how Remington ate into their market share. They beat them on price by cutting corners.

I think we can buy more great rifles now than we ever could. I never heard of anything like a Sako as a kid. It was all Remington, Winchester, Stevens (Savage), Browning and Marlin. No Weatherby, Howa, Cooper was rare, no Anschutz, Tikka, etc. etc. etc.. We have a FAR bigger selection of great rifles than we did and for the most part rifles shoot more accurate now. No one ever guaranteed MOA way back when. It was unheard of to expect MOA from a stock rifle. Now (US made) T/C makes an affordable bolt rifle that is guaranteed to shoot MOA. Yes we had some T/C rifles back in "the good old days" but I rarely saw them. I think I saw one or two. The American companies had more choices but now they have more competition. I'll take more competition every time. The Savage I mentioned before would have been considered a miracle rifle back in the 1960's. You just have to see how well it shoots is all I can say. And it is a high quality rifle too.

And do people remember what high quality guns cost back in the 60's? I was around a whole bunch of shotguns in the early 60's because we had a trap range in the back yard. People brought out shotguns they had paid over $3000 for back then. I didn't see many of those but I saw several $1000 shotguns. Just for reference a $1000 shotgun in 1964 would cost about $7500 now. People bought them and didn't shoot them but it was a status symbol for some. And those people all seemed to end up at our house eventually. They would bring their Winchester and Remington shotguns and lay their Italian jobs on the kitchen table for people to drool on. I was chief drooler I guess because I was too young to shoot at the time but I could sure look and I knew what I was looking at.

So think about what a good rifle would have cost back then and think about what you could buy for the equivalent amount of money today. Accuracy International, Shilen, Cheytac, Barrett, FN Herstal and other such rifles come to mind. You could buy those for the kind of money people were spending on those great American rifles or close to it anyway.

Let's not forget that America was the only industrial country that didn't have every rifle factory bombed into oblivion during WWII too. We had the supply right here. Other countries couldn't produce the same level of product we could and not anywhere near the same price. It was the same for cars. Have you looked at some of those Brit cars from that time period? Compare to the venerable 1957 Chevy (that they still use in Cuba). We had the stuff and people were throwing money at us to get it so our consumers had money to spend too. At least some of them did.

This is the golden age of the rifle. Yes there were great old rifles. There are far more great rifles today and some of them are made in the USA too.
 
It's often said some don't get the black plastic rifle. Ok. At one time there was very few on the market, and most didn't care at all for them.

What sold the buyers of "black plastic" was the same kind of research and understanding that goes into the bolt gun. don't all have wood stocks, nope, they have stained white walnut at the lower end, then work thru the better grades of figured wood that is chosen to get the grain to work with the shape of the stock, right on up to the finest species cut from exotic woods from overseas.

Not hedge - but call it Osage Orange and then it becomes something else.

So, call it "black plastic" and it's like calling a wood stocked gun something with a cheap species. Which a lot of cheaper guns do use, like birch. Funny, tho, laminate it in multiple thin layers and it becomes something desireable.

Well, it's not just "black plastic" which is a phrase mostly meant to demean the substance. And we all do know there are a lot of different polymers on the market. Do they use cheap "black plastic" on the intake manifold under the hood of your car? Go look - surprise - it's polymer, not cast iron.

Take another look at those modern firearms - they minimize the stocks. That gun isn't "black plastic" they way they built the Nylon 66 - which has an exemplary reputation and is achieving collector status.

Modern firearms based on military patterns don't depend on the stocks to do much covering the action. They are built differently, the action is exposed where you can see it and it has it's own value in making the gun look what it is.

Take a glance at the rack of bolt guns and distinguishing features at 20 feet are hard to come by. They pretty much look all the same. Cookie cutter looks. But take a look at the milsurp or sporting rifles, you get a quick idea which is an AK, AR, HK, FN, etc. You can't do that with a bolt Winchester, Remington, Savage, Mossberg, or the higher end customs. Maybe a 1950's Weatherby.

Bolt guns have the same looks, same handles on one side, same trigger guard underneath, not many distinguishing features at all. If anything, the sense of what is trying to be said about "black plastic" is ironically much more their actual issue, some kind of wood covering up very little action with a barrel sticking out just long enough to convey an artistic sense.

In comparison, lets not forget the lever action outsold bolt guns until after WWII. No, bolt guns weren't all that in the early part of the 20th century.

And what do lever guns have? An exposed action with it's distinct style. You can make sense of a rack of Winchesters, Remingtons, Marlins, and Brownings, etc and pick out the different models they made over the years. Read the articles in the day and there were more lever gun fans faithfully defending their choice than bolt gunners.

I guess to some they all look the same, tho.

Bolt guns were a bubble in the American market during the 1950's - 1970's and they influenced a lot of people. But when it came right down to it, I chose to buy a different gun as my first, and the later purchase of a bolt gun just proved to me they were a niche product for a particular socio economic genre.

Both stylistically and functionally, they leave a lot to be desired. And that is why the lever and now the AR has become the dominant choice.
 
It is often said that this is the golden age of rifles, but I wonder if that actually wasn't 10-15 years ago. Case in point:
Kimber, and others were using better wood for the same money.
Ruger, Savage and Remington were better quality for the same price point.
Ruger and others were available on the shelf, its more of an order thing now.
 
I know what you mean, bu frankly times are tought and "tacticool" is the new "cool cool".

These cheap, black tac tactical tac rifles are the "wave of the future" as it were. The young new shooters on a budget gravitate these over the nice wood n' walnut blued rifles of yesteryear's days gone by.
 
Take a glance at the rack of bolt guns and distinguishing features at 20 feet are hard to come by. They pretty much look all the same. Cookie cutter looks. But take a look at the milsurp or sporting rifles, you get a quick idea which is an AK, AR, HK, FN, etc. You can't do that with a bolt Winchester, Remington, Savage, Mossberg, or the higher end customs. Maybe a 1950's Weatherby.
That's funny to me, cause I'm just the opposite. At 20 feet I would no problem telling a Win, Rem, Sav, etc. bolt action apart, but would have no idea (or interest) in which was an AK, AR, HK, etc. Everybody is not the same, thank goodness.
 
Ruger, Savage and Remington were better quality for the same price point.

Savage quality has continued to improve and Ruger prices have dropped drastically for rifles like the American which gives you the same Ruger quality available before but for a lot less money. Savage may have gone up in price some but they have added things like the AccuTrigger in the past 15 years. I'm afraid I can't agree that they sold better rifles 15 years ago. In fact I have a 110 from the early 1990's. It is a long way from being on the same level of quality as either my 12 LRPV or even my MkIIBTV .22. In 2008 that MkII won both the Editor's Choice and Great Buy awards given out yearly by Outdoor Life magazine. They bought a $425 Savage and shot groups of .109" at 50 yards with it. And not it wasn't a fluke. Mine has done better than that. I bought one after seeing that review. Now they have several more variations of that rifle. It has it's problems like all rifles (it had fewer than my CZ 453 did) but there's no arguing with the accuracy. Yes it's a laminated stock but they sell them with other stocks now. Lots of them. It's a .22 designed to shoot tight groups and it does the trick.

We can go buy ourselves a version of the same rifle that got the longest ever recorded sniper kill (2700 yards+). It won't be cheap but 2700 yards??? That rifle is a Accuracy International AWM. If anyone would have told me I could buy a rifle like that back in 1965 I would have laughed for a week. BTW a lot of those classic Winchesters weren't cheap either. Remington beat them by undercutting their prices.

People don't want a rifle they can't shoot for fear of scratching it. Most people don't anyway. They may want one but they need rifles that will get out in the muck and mud and keep working and rifles it won't cost a fortune to replace if you happen to drop yours in a river somewhere. Even my 12 LRPV with eye popping accuracy is synthetic and stainless (H-S Precision stock). It wasn't all that expensive actually and I've shot the rare group under 2" at 500 yards with it. 4"-5" at that distance is about normal depending on how bad the wind is blowing. It's much harder in a strong wind but the rifle is a .223. The fact that it will ever shoot a group like that is pretty amazing especially with me pulling the trigger. That's also a fairly recent Savage product. Their quality is not going down. It's going up.

This IS the golden age of the rifle.
 
my stuff gets beat up pretty good and i don't cry about it. you don't shoot off barricades or concrete culverts or out of vehicles very long before you've got scratches and scrapes on everything you own. it was made to be used, not to look at behind glass.
I never shoot in these circumstances nor do I plan to. If I did, I wouldn't use anything with a nice piece of walnut.
 
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