Observations of the bolt rifle scene.

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I'm amused at the "excellent accuracy" comment concerning the new style base rifle. Good enough accuracy is probably the correct statement. Things that shoot in the excellent category, to my mind at least, win benchrest or thousand yard competitions, and those are not sub-$500.00 rifles.

900F

 

[GAMEOVER44]

The custom rifle is hands down the best shooting rifle I own and it should be for the $ I paid, but really the "cheap" rifles shoot MOA or slightly better and cost WAY less. For hunting at 200yds or less on deer sized game the "cheap" rifle does the same job as my expensive custom. It kills deer dead and I don't care about dings scratches and bad weather like I do when I carry my custom gun.

That's whats bad about "custom" rifles. We dump all this money into them only to cry when they get a knick or scratch. I have a Custom Ruger Gunsite Scout I cherish but will be devestated when it gets its first knick. Nothing like a MINT custom firearm.

 

[taliv]

my stuff gets beat up pretty good and i don't cry about it. you don't shoot off barricades or concrete culverts or out of vehicles very long before you've got scratches and scrapes on everything you own. it was made to be used, not to look at behind glass.

 

[sage5907]

I don't own any entry level or cheaply made rifles, I hunt with everything I own, and I can't stand the idea of a safe queen. I'm hard on equipment and I use my rifles hard but I don't get scratches on them because I am careful. I do get a lot of handling marks but it doesn't bother me. I have rifles that I have owned for 40 years that I used every year and they still look new.

 

[stubbicatt]

While I recognize the trend of manufacturers to produce inexpensive rifles, it occurs to me that this trend is longer lived than many realize.

If you ever have a chance to go to the Winchester Firearms Museum in Cody Wyoming, you can look at spectacular examples of the gunmaker's art from the days of antiquity up to the late 1800s or early 1900s. Those examples of post 1880's firearms on display there have a distinctly utilitarian hue. It is plainly obvious that embellishment, engraving, inlays, and other hallmarks of high quality craftsmanship yielded to "everyman's gun" at some point in the latter half of the 1800s. There are unique examples of high quality firearms being manufactured at that point, but the differences are plain to see.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

I don't own a safe queen either, but if its raining or bad weather like snow, sleet, rain, etc. My Custom rifle stays at home and I carry my Mossberg 100 ATR 30-06 in stainless/synthetic. I also tend to watch how I handle my more expensive rifles when I'm hunting I don't throw them down in my truck bed uncovered, lean then against metal fence post/wire etc.

 

[stiab]

That's whats bad about "custom" rifles. We dump all this money into them only to cry when they get a knick or scratch.

Not all custom rifles are that pretty to me, some have flat black finishes, composite or lamintated stocks, etc., and don't knick and scratch as easily as walnut and bright blue.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

I found it telling over the past couple of years when Walmart carried M700 BDLs for 777.00. Then, when they discontinued them for the SPS stuff, the BDLs were priced at 597.00. Wish I could have found a short action BDL at that price....

 

[txblackout]

When thoughts meander toward standard bolt actions M77 Rugers , M70 Winchesters, Remington 700's, and Savage 10,11/111 comes to mind. Yet just today I was in a large regional sporting goods store there were almost none of these in the racks! There were no Ruger hawkeyes in standard walnut or synthetic, just a couple scout versions. There were no m70's. The only 700's were a couple SPS all black matte jobs. There were no NICE Savage 10,110 hunting rifles but there were some trophy package units with aweful fit and a nice long range with muzzle brake.
What was there instead? Many Ruger Americans. Plenty of Savage axis II's. Howas. Japanese Xbolts. High end AR's.
Its a little unnerving to me, but the days of the nicer affordable American bolt gun might be waning.

There are many very nice American rifles, Coopers, Barret mrad, Black Rain etc, but this is a higher class.

Regional sporting goods stores always sell low to mid range junk. Whether it is bikes, golf clubs etc. You have to go to a specialty store to get high end items.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

The price-point hasn't really changed. What you can get at that price point has. Blame inflation.

I picked up a new original Ruger 77 in .338 mag about 28 years ago for around $350. A few years later I bought a new Ruger 77 Mark II in .300 Mag. for about the same price. Both were walnut and blued steel. If I'm not mistaken, that's what a Ruger American is currently going for.

OTOH, tonight I took possession (via Gunbroker) of a new Ruger 77 Hawkeye All-Weather in .300 mag. that cost over $600...and thought I got a very good deal. Will it shoot any better than those 25 year old 77s? Probably not. Might resist rust better, but there's no pretty walnut to behold.

Costs of the traditional designs have about doubled due to inflation. People are unemployed or under-employed so money's short among those buying a first deer rifle. The $300-$400 price range is all they can handle. Hence the popularity of the American/Axis/780 etc. Luckily the technology and materials are available to build these guns and meet the price-point

My very first new rifle back in 1967 bought with a 2nd Looey's first paycheck was a Rem. 788...that cost less than $90 NEW! Couldn't afford a Model 70 or a 700. I still have that 788. It and another 788 are the most accurate rifles I own.

 

[herkyguy]

I have a 700 in .308 with a nice bell and Carlson composite stock on it. I also have a model 70 extreme weather SS - also a composite stock.

Now I find myself drooling over real wood.....

I've been eyeing M77s with walnut stocks for some time now.

Funny how things change.

 

[Willie Sutton]

"I've been eyeing M77s with walnut stocks for some time now"


If you want a wood stock you really ought to also want a forged receiver...

There's a nice Mauser sporter someplace with your name on it. Go forth and find it!



Willie

.

 

[Manny]

Fancy wood and high gloss blue does nothing for me. Not that I don't like fine weapons, but my idea of a fine weapon doesn't include those features. I far prefer laminate or synthetic stocks, weather resistant metal & finishes and functionality & performance over beauty.

 

[johnnydollar]

I've got Mausers with fine checkered walnut stocks and rich deep bluing, and other Mausers with a spray paint finish in a budget synthetic stock. I didn't find them in a large regional sporting goods store, nor will I go there looking for my next one. And I agree, when us older guys pass on, the custom rifle scene will probably pass with us.

 

[chris in va]

I think the answer is obvious. AR sales took off like a rocket and the traditional wood/blued bolts became more of a fringe firearm. I also keep reading reports of hunters using various AR calibers including 308 in the AR10.

Just an observation.

 

[TwoEyedJack]

I'm looking for a new bolt action .308. Paying $799 for a new model 70 makes my eyes want to water. I wish I would have bought more guns when they were cheaper.

 

[HB]

Once us old guys get old and die off, there won't be a whole lot of demand for fine rifles anymore.

Sounds terrible but I'm young and I can't wait for such firearms to be passed on. I hope the popularity of plastic pistols and cheap rifles continues so eventually loads of m70s and s&w collections are once again affordable.

HB

 

[NickEllis]

Taliv, anything in particular catch your eye for custom actions at Shot? I've been hoping that market would open up a little more.

 

[Corn-Picker]

Personally, I prefer to spend on experiences rather than objects. If I have 35k to spend on hunting/shooting over the next 35 years of my life, 5k of firearms and 30k of license fees, travel budget, and ammo is much more enjoyable (to me) than 20k of firearms and 15k of license fees, travel budget, and ammo. I have enough cash to buy Citori shotguns and Blaser rifles topped with Zeiss scopes, but why would I if the difference in price equates to a few guided elk hunts or 40,000 extra rounds of ammo? Just my opinion...

My Weatherby Vangaurd S2 youth fits me perfectly (12.5" LOP), the stock has a lot of Monte Carlo and drop at the heel (perfect for lining your eye up with a scope), it has a two stage trigger (which I strongly prefer), it'll hold one inch at 100 yards, and it's chambered in 308 so I can practice with cheap ammo at $0.50/shot.

How can all that for $480 be a bad thing?

The more inexpensive rifles there are, the easier it is for people to get into hunting and shooting. I would argue that the inexpensive rifles are a good thing for the custom rifle manufacturers; more young people entering the shooting sports means more custom rifles when those people are older (i.e. a rising tide lifts all ships).

 

[1948CJ2A]

I've complained about the rifle trends in the recent past too and see these threads come up every now and then.

There are those who look at their rifles as artwork, those who look at them as tools, and those who are somewhere in between.

For those who just look at their rifles as tools, a plastic stock, stainless metal, matte finish, etc. is going to be their best choice. No sense trying to convince them otherwise. They have an excellent point.

For those who favor the classic/legacy look of rifles when things were made with more quality and less quantity, they're not going to be wading through the swamps with their prized rifles. This is why most of those folks, like me, have at least one synthetic "tool" in their safe chambered in a common cartridge to have if they need.

All that said, I'd say here in Texas the number of poor-weather days (rain, snow, sleet, mud, etc.) is much lower than the sunny nice days during deer season. I'd argue probably 85% pleasant to 15% inclement. That means the overwhelming majority of the time, I'm hunting with one of my works of art.

I have no desire to come out of a swamp all Navy-Seal style with a plastic rifle to shoot a deer. I'm sure some folks like that but it's not for me.

If you're not using your bolt-action for hunting, the argument in favor of the plastic stuff only has slight merit with regards to humidity and moisture swelling wood-stocked rifles and possibly affecting accuracy. It's never been an issue for me, but I've heard it out there before. Otherwise, you just have to like the plastic stuff or just not care.

 

[taliv]

Taliv, anything in particular catch your eye for custom actions at Shot? I've been hoping that market would open up a little more.

i'm not at shot, so haven't put my hands on them personally, but from the pics and videos, several look pretty cool
Wade Stuteville (co-founder of Surgeon) came out with a new action
George Gardner/GA Precision introduced the Tempest (a cool 3 lug design that fits in 700 footprint)
BAT came out with something too, not sure what exactly.
I know there were a few others in the pipe but I'm not sure if they were announced yet

 

[joed]

Yes, sadly things are changing. If you look at the posts here in Rifle Country 50% of them are about AR's. I've started spending less time here because of it too. Not that I don't like AR's but I prefer bolt rifles for hunting.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I'm gonna shoot my 1952 M70 30-06 until I can't focus through the Weaver K4. Period.

Same here -- except my M70 was made in 1939. It has a peep sight snuggled up behind the rear scope base, so if the scope goes out, I can pull it off and keep shooting.

 

[taliv]

joed, since the clinton assault weapon ban expired i think most of the threads in rifle country have been about AR or similar. i think in the past couple of years there's been a refreshing turn toward bolt rifles. i like seeing some variety too

 

[Trent]

my stuff gets beat up pretty good and i don't cry about it. you don't shoot off barricades or concrete culverts or out of vehicles very long before you've got scratches and scrapes on everything you own. it was made to be used, not to look at behind glass.

This, so much this.

The only thing I baby are my scopes. I'm really particular about those.

This being said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with "honest wear". Honest wear is different than abuse. Honest wear happens when you use a tool. Abuse happens when you don't take care of a tool.

My rifles are tools, not something I worship as an art piece.

(Ok, ok... sometimes *do* I stare at them and admire the artistry. But only at the end of a long cleaning session, and because I'm high on cleaning fumes.)