Odd Feedback On The Ammo Shortage

[CB900F]

Fella's;

As the OP, the question that started this thread is: Why is former bargain Federal AmEagle now seen to be higher priced ($5.00 per brick higher) than Winchester's premium PowerPoint ammo. Same retailer, within two weeks of each other in the recent past.

We all understand the supply/demand, the political situation, and scalpers. What I don't understand is seeing former $8.95/400 bricks now selling at $39.95/400 when the PowerPoint were 12.95/500 and are now $34.95/500. The original post was to see if anybody knew, or could reasonably surmise, where this apparant anomoly comes from?

900F

 

[HOOfan_1]

I'd think that has as much to do with the type of deals the retailer can make with their suppliers as it does with the costs the manufacturers are charging. Big retailers are adjusting their prices on a daily basis. I've seen some stuff jump from $5.49 to $6.24 one day, and then jump back to $5.79 a few days later. There are computer errors, and there are different deals being made with suppliers.

Some companies actually pay retailers for shelf space as well. It wouldn't surprise me if ATK paid retailers for shelf space, but with the ammo drought, there is too much shelf space and not enough ammo, so they are no longer paying for shelf space. Retailers also adjust their profit margins often. They may sell at a loss with door buster items. If they have nothing else to sell, then they need to make their profits off of what had previously been a door buster item.

 

[JTHunter]

Unfortunately, there was a news report on a local radio station (CBS network newscast) that Dumbo had issued another of his "edicts" (E. O.'s) barring the re-importation of milsurp firearms and ammo. He did this on his own because he couldn't get it through Congress, according to the report.


Any bets certain ammo's will go up or disappear again?

 

[goon]

One thing I'm noticing with ammo... Winchester stuff seems to be inexplicably 50% more expensive than other brands.

I asked about the price of Winchester yesterday and was just told "yeah, it's more expensive when we buy it too. I guess Winchester must be really proud of that stuff."

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

"One thing I'm noticing with ammo... Winchester stuff seems to be inexplicably 50% more expensive than other brands."

And yet the point of this thread was that I noticed that the Winchester had stayed essentially static in price whereas the Federal showed a jaw-dropping increase.

I wonder if this is an indication of pocket markets, sorta like micro-climates for ammo?

900F

 

[jrdolall]

I saw 4 different kinds of 9mm, FMJ and JHP, in Walmart today. They had several boxes of each at decent prices.
They had .40, .38 and .45 FMJ. They also had the 1,000 count 5.56 by American Eagle for $447 and that is the first time I have ever seen that pack in Walmart. The last AR ammo I bought was $.17 per round so that still seems a bit high. Nobody was standing in line to purchase and this was about 2:30 PM. I didn't need any of the above so I walked on by.

 

[alsaqr]

The only over the counter places i see outrageous prices for ammo is in some LGS.

The Lawton Wal-Mart has Remington .22 ammo in 225 round packs for $10 and change. They have several brands of .223 ammo in quantity including TulAmmo for $5. 27 per 20 rounds.

 

[MattShlock]

There isn't any "angry fist shaking about it". Someone asked why prices spiked, another person answered.

Manufacturing costs might have gone up, but that certainly doesn't account for the huge price spike we have seen from some retailers. Especially when that spike coincided with the panic from last December.

Gosh, higher prices happened at the same time as a run on ammo started? You mean prices went up with demand when supply couldn't keep up!? And "how dare they spike the price, charge what they are, when I want I want I want to spend less of my earnings on ammo, and it's all YOUR fault people -- STOP BUYING (MY) AMMO!"

That's the fist shaking!

By the way, yours truly was the first person who answered...

 

[Warp]

Would it kill U guys to just stop shooting for 6 months? I live un South Florida and most of us have a "shooting season" it runs from October until April, basically because the heat, humidity, mosquitoes and the sun do not motivate us 2 shoot -even indoors- forget the outdoors and forget trap and skeet. (Of course u have a few folks -about 30%- who shoot regardless, but most us only shoot consistently about 6 months a year. Why can't u guys do the same thing when it's cold, just stop shooting for 6 months.

1. The market went crazy more than 8 months ago at this point. 6 months came and went months ago.

2. It's a perishable skill. Use it or lose it.

3. Some of us enjoy it too much to just stop for so long. 6 months is a long time.

4. If you have an adequate supply of ammunition you can go for a year without buying ammo if you are careful with how you use what you have. We should all have learned by now that this is a good thing to do if at all possible because panics and things like this happen. They happened under Clinton, they happened when Hussein was first elected, and they happened again this year.

 

[goon]

The only way to really deal with price fluctuations is to have enough ammo on hand to just not worry about it.
A friend had several thousand rounds of 7.62x39 that he's picked up over the years. Nice to have now, but I feel sorry for him if he ever has to move.
Anyhow, a scalper during the panic was trying to sell ammo to him at an inflated price and my friend told him to take a walk. The way he put it was "I don't give a damn what it's going for now... I've got plenty. I'm not in this game."
The only problem is that you may not anticipate every possible gun you'd like to buy in time to get 700 rounds on hand for it.

 

[Dr_B]

A couple of weeks ago, I was in a store not too far from where I live shopping for brass. I overheard the owner explaining to someone at the counter (who apparently had not realized there was any shortage) why he couldn't get powder or ammo. It was this:

First, all powder is made in Australia. And the Australians have passed a new law that allows only one ship loaded with powder to leave for the US each month. Thus, we now have a shortage.

Second, he told her .22 ammo didn't keep for very long at all. She should shoot it if she had any. After all, that is why so many people need it and buy it up so quickly: because it expires. Center fire ammo, on the other hand, lasts for years.

OK, quick analysis. We don't depend on the Australians for powder. I don't know... maybe some of it is made there, but I do know for sure it doesn't all come from there. Ammo lasts for a long, long time if you store it properly. Its like just about anything else: You store it in a cool, dry place.

 

[Warp]

The only way to really deal with price fluctuations is to have enough ammo on hand to just not worry about it.
A friend had several thousand rounds of 7.62x39 that he's picked up over the years. Nice to have now, but I feel sorry for him if he ever has to move.
Anyhow, a scalper during the panic was trying to sell ammo to him at an inflated price and my friend told him to take a walk. The way he put it was "I don't give a damn what it's going for now... I've got plenty. I'm not in this game."
The only problem is that you may not anticipate every possible gun you'd like to buy in time to get 700 rounds on hand for it.

A few thousand rounds of ammo is the least of a person's issues when moving.

I'd be more concerned about the extra couch in the den/basement/attic.

But yeah, having a few thousand of your top cartridge or two is a great thing to do, if you can

 

[22-rimfire]

To the OP, I don't know. The price is what it is. I am not privy to wholesale price lists or what supplies are available for distribution and re-sale.

Lead Counsel: I haven't seen $10/500-ct brick pricing since the 80's and even then it was a sale price. I remember when it was $5/brick. Those days are long gone. I also remember when regular people considered a couple bricks of 22 ammo to be a significant supply. There were no 50,000 round caches.

 

[goon]

For the entire duration of my childhood we never had more than a brick of .22LR in the house at a time. I don't remember $5 bricks, but I do remember Thunderbolts being 79 cents for a box of 50. I was very excited by that - I gave my dad some of my money to buy me a few boxes.
I also remember 500 round Walmart value packs back in the old boxes and priced at $7.99 each.

Of course, things have changed since then.
Some for the better and some for the worse.

 

[MattShlock]

Hard Lessons Your Parents Didn't Teach Ya

It WAS the land of plenty.

Your could always get ammo. Then you could indulge and get different calibers. Then different brands. We bought many boxes and then found out there were "bricks" -- 10 boxes on sale in one package! It was like discovering fire or that you could spray cheese directly out of a can onto a cracker!

Especially after the Clinton ban this became important. Who ever heard of a CASE of .22 till then. Obama Gun Run The First taught us about them for sure. Well not everyone. Some continued to stick their heads in the sand. And who could possibly have seen Obama Gun Run The Second coming?

Ummm, everybody! To miss this current state of affairs you really had to ignore the obvious. Did the day-before-yesterday's 50% tax on ammo legislation shock you? Yesterday's Executive Order banning the return-to-the-US and sale of M-1 Garand "Military Assault Rifles" surprise you!? I'll bet it did -- a few hopeless ones!

The same people who don't get, even deny, the Left's anti-gun agenda and its impact are just, JUST, starting to realize their parents didn't teach them that someday, if we're not all good little self-reliant, patriotic, America-loving citizens, and informed and involved, that we won't be able to do what we want, when we want. That maybe Mom and Dad actually deceived them about our basic rights being usurped at someone else's whim. That they were supposed to be responsible. And now they're either pointing fingers or curling them up into a shaking fist...

"Here's your allotment of 40 rounds of .22 LR for $8, Sir -- now shut up, sign here, have a nice day, and come back soon."

 

[Warp]

It WAS the land of plenty.

Your could always get ammo. Then you could indulge and get different calibers. Then different brands. We bought many boxes and then found out there were "bricks" -- 10 boxes on sale in one package! It was like discovering fire or that you could spray cheese directly out of a can onto a cracker!

Especially after the Clinton ban this became important. Who ever heard of a CASE of .22 till then. Obama Gun Run The First taught us about them for sure. Well not everyone. Some continued to stick their heads in the sand. And who could possibly have seen Obama Gun Run The Second coming?

Ummm, everybody! To miss this current state of affairs you really had to ignore the obvious. Did the day-before-yesterday's 50% tax on ammo legislation shock you? Yesterday's Executive Order banning the return-to-the-US and sale of M-1 Garand "Military Assault Rifles" surprise you!? I'll bet it did -- a few hopeless ones!

The same people who don't get, even deny, the Left's anti-gun agenda and its impact are just, JUST, starting to realize their parents didn't teach them that someday, if we're not all good little self-reliant, patriotic, America-loving citizens, and informed and involved, that we won't be able to do what we want, when we want. That maybe Mom and Dad actually deceived them about our basic rights being usurped at someone else's whim. That they were supposed to be responsible. And now they're either pointing fingers or curling them up into a shaking fist...

"Here's your allotment of 40 rounds of .22 LR for $8, Sir -- now shut up, sign here, have a nice day, and come back soon."

Let's be fair...there really wasn't a gun/ammo run for Obama's second election.

Something else did that.

 

[MagnunJoe]

Not 2 mention that I know plenty of gun owners who voted 4 Obummer -twice- and also voted for all the other gun grabbers in congress, and guess what, they will e 4 Hillary in 3 years.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

To the OP's question. Manuafacture's have different pricing schedules and your large retail chains have contracts in place for ammo deliverys. Also like anything else the more you buy the cheaper the price you have to pay. Its more than likely that a price increase from one manufacture occured thus resulting in the difference. Understand People would raise heck if the manuafacture's were colluding on pricing. Heck that may even bring an investigation. Also I doubt the costs to make it are the same nor are the margins the same as the ammo works its way though the chain to you.

 

[BrotherFrankie]

Would it kill U guys to just stop shooting for 6 months? I live un South Florida and most of us have a "shooting season" it runs from October until April, basically because the heat, humidity, mosquitoes and the sun do not motivate us 2 shoot -even indoors- forget the outdoors and forget trap and skeet. (Of course u have a few folks -about 30%- who shoot regardless, but most us only shoot consistently about 6 months a year. Why can't u guys do the same thing when it's cold, just stop shooting for 6 months.

i have stopped shooting... let my range membership expire.. used to go 2x a week, now once in 6 months..

i refuse to buy overpriced ammo for fun.. now i keep what i have till prices drop..

 

[goon]

You don't have to stop shooting. I can't afford to shoot as much either.

But I can afford to shoot some .22 and some reloads for the .308 and .38/.357. I love shooting too much to give it up just because I can't shoot as much.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

My pet theory: Millions of new gun owners, buying in response to gun ban threats, also buying thousands of rounds of ammo, also in response to ammo restrictions.

        NICS National Instant Check System (Background Checks primarily Form 4473 Transactions--gun sales at licensed dealers)                            

 YEAR   JAN        FEB      MAR        APR       MAY       JUN       JUL       AUG       SEP       OCT       NOV       DEC        TOTALS
 1998                                                                                                        21,196   871,644    892,840
 1999   591,355   696,323   753,083   646,712   576,272   569,493   589,476   703,394   808,627   945,701 1,004,333 1,253,354  9,138,123
*2000   639,972   707,070   736,543   617,689   538,648   550,561   542,520   682,501   782,087   845,886   898,598 1,000,962  8,543,037
 2001   640,528   675,156   729,532   594,723   543,501   540,491   539,498   707,288   864,038 1,029,691   983,186 1,062,559  8,910,191
 2002   665,803   694,668   714,665   627,745   569,247   518,351   535,594   693,139   724,123   849,281   887,647   974,059  8,454,322
 2003   653,751   708,281   736,864   622,832   567,436   529,334   533,289   683,517   738,371   856,863   842,932 1,008,118  8,481,588
*2004   695,000   723,654   738,298   642,589   542,456   546,847   561,773   666,598   740,260   865,741   890,754 1,073,701  8,687,671
 2005   685,811   743,070   768,290   658,954   557,058   555,560   561,358   687,012   791,353   852,478   927,419 1,164,582  8,952,945
 2006   775,518   820,679   845,219   700,373   626,270   616,097   631,156   833,070   919,487   970,030 1,045,194 1,253,840 10,036,933
 2007   894,608   914,954   975,806   840,271   803,051   792,943   757,884   917,358   944,889 1,025,123 1,079,923 1,230,525 11,177,335
*2008   942,556 1,021,130 1,040,863   940,961   886,183   819,891   891,224   956,872   973,003 1,183,279 1,529,635 1,523,426 12,709,023
 2009 1,213,885 1,259,078 1,345,096 1,225,980 1,023,102   968,145   966,162 1,074,757 1,093,230 1,233,982 1,223,252 1,407,155 14,033,824
 2010 1,119,229 1,243,211 1,300,100 1,233,761 1,016,876 1,005,876 1,069,792 1,089,374 1,145,798 1,368,184 1,296,223 1,521,192 14,409,616
 2011 1,323,336 1,473,513 1,449,724 1,351,255 1,230,953 1,168,322 1,157,041 1,310,041 1,253,752 1,340,273 1,534,414 1,862,327 16,454,951
*2012 1,377,301 1,749,903 1,727,881 1,427,343 1,316,226 1,302,660 1,300,704 1,526,206 1,459,363 1,614,032 2,006,919 2,783,765 19,592,303
 2013 2,495,440 2,309,393 2,209,407 1,714,433 1,435,917 1,281,351 1,283.912                                                   12,729,853
                                                                                                                       TOTAL 173,204,555


* Election Years

NOTE: These statistics represent the number of firearm background checks initiated through the NICS. They do not represent the number of
firearms sold. Based on varying state laws and purchase scenarios, a one-to-one correlation cannot be made between a firearm background
check and a firearm sale.
The 4473 form allows up to 5 guns on one sales form, representing one background check, and some agencies run NICS checks for carry permits.

 

[huntsman]

What I don't understand is seeing former $8.95/400 bricks now selling at $39.95/400 when the PowerPoint were 12.95/500 and are now $34.95/500. The original post was to see if anybody knew, or could reasonably surmise, where this apparant anomoly comes from?

Is it weird that the cheap promo ammo has seen the highest increase?

If the profit margins on the promo ammo were small to begin with but accepted to sell product then why not use the time of high demand to improve on the margin? especially if major capital investment is being made to expand production.


With centerfire pistol ammo during the height of the panic all .45acp and .380acp ammo was gone, but now if you want to buy BB it's there, maybe because folk gag at a buck plus plinking ammo. But the BB didn't see the rapid price increases that the cheap stuff did so maybe everything is going to stabilize around a buck a cartridge with the cheap prom being a bit below and the boutique a bit above.

 

[CB900F]

Huntsman;

That argument has a fly in it's ointment. Federal American Eagle isn't their promo ammo any longer. That niche is now occupied by Federal's Champion bulk boxes. If price is any indicator, that former loss-leader stuff is now somewhere near the top of their procuct line, perhaps just below Gold Medal Match.

Perhaps one of the store people here could comment on the various manufacturers product line offerings?

For instance, as I see it, Winchester Wildcat is still their bottom-line promo ammo. Then there's the 333/555 bulk, and PowerPoint. I realize that's simplistic, Winchester actually lists 8 different types of .22lr on their website, but that's what most of us are seeing on shelves.

900F

 

[huntsman]

Ok not promo but still listed as plinking ammo

American Eagle® Rimfire

When plinking is the name of the game—you don't need match-grade accuracy—just reliable ammunition to have some fun.

what's confusing (at least to me) is their basic hunting ammo is Game-shok and is all plated but the AE is only plated in HP so I'm not sure it's that far up the line.

 

[MattShlock]

Let's be fair...there really wasn't a gun/ammo run for Obama's second election.

Something else did that.

OK, let's. It clearly started again with the Aurora, Colorado, movie theater shooting in July 2012 based on people's fear of government reprisal against law-abiding citizens, sped up with the second debate in October when Obama admitted he would reinstate a more effective Assault Weapons Ban, grew when Obama won reelection in November, and went off the charts when he entered a race with the NY Governor to see who could propose and initiate the most draconian anti-gun legislation none of which would have stopped the Sandy Hook shooting they exploited in December.

And the nonsense hasn't ended since. How about the Assault Weapons Ban he started pushing before he was even innaugurated the second time in January which he sent the Vice President on a national speaking tour to sell, two sets of gun-control Executive Orders to date, and the President's national politicization of a self-defense shooting case in Florida whose name we're not even allowed to mention here without being banished. Fair enough!?

Is it any wonder we can't find a damn brick of .22? Yet some people are really scratching their heads wondering why whilst others quip "let's be fair" about those who are doing this to us. Really? Seriously!?

Feel free to check my timeline and the cadence of the Gun Run The Second. How quickly they forget... We're talking MONTHS people. Wake up for cryin' out loud!!!