He will have no persuasive power outside of the already committed. If the game is to rile up the committed, so be it. Making the NRA a total creature of conservative politics may be financially successful for a bit. It is not a long term strategy to expand practical gun rights.
Oliver North to be the next NRA President
- Thread starter thomas15
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Here's my issue with mixing politics with the 2nd amendment: Lots of people on both sides of the aisle are pro-gun and we shouldn't be running anyone off!
As evidence I'll present this: a compilation of the political interests of everyone who visits THR (including those who browse without posting or just come here occasionally). This has been collected over about a decade:
There are more registered Democrats that come to THR than Republicans!
If you're tying gun rights to Republican issues, you're wrong in my opinion. At the very least you're alienating 35% of THR's viewers, and by extension 2nd amendment advocates in general. Do you really want to make people choose between owning AR15s and a woman's right to choose?
Don't. Just don't.
We should know better.
As evidence I'll present this: a compilation of the political interests of everyone who visits THR (including those who browse without posting or just come here occasionally). This has been collected over about a decade:
There are more registered Democrats that come to THR than Republicans!
If you're tying gun rights to Republican issues, you're wrong in my opinion. At the very least you're alienating 35% of THR's viewers, and by extension 2nd amendment advocates in general. Do you really want to make people choose between owning AR15s and a woman's right to choose?
Don't. Just don't.
We should know better.
BSA1
member
Oh you mean people like Charlton Heston?
It sure was non-controversial when he stood up on stage holding a rifle high in one hand and proclaiming "from my cold dead hands."
Yep we certainly don't want any controversy do we?
Well, I wish he'd done that with an M4, personally...
Tommygunn
Member
Absolutly! That's why I questioned the choice, even though I'm willing to give the somewhat good, most-of-the-time Oliver North a chance.
Although I do sorta think Oliver Hardy might have been a less tendentious choice .......
Sav .250
Member
You comment implies your not an active NRA member? Just a question.
It is very true that we shouldn't be running anyone off and that there are some pro-gun Democrats. However, the undeniable fact remains that almost all of the attacks on our 2A rights come from Democrats, not Republicans. At some point people need to decide what issues are most important to them and get off the fence. You can't help but "mix politics with the 2A" when so many people on one side of the isle don't want the 2A.
Here is an excerpt from the 2016 Democratic Party platform:
Guns
“To build on the success of the lifesaving Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, we will expand and strengthen background checks and close dangerous loopholes in our current laws; repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) to revoke the dangerous legal immunity protections gun makers and sellers now enjoy; and keep weapons of war—such as assault weapons and large capacity ammunition magazines (LCAM’s)—off our streets.”
Now tell me just how we are supposed to keep from mixing politics with the 2A? If the Democratic members of this forum and of the NRA are offended by the NRA's movement to the political right then they only have the actions of their own party to blame it on......
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BSA1
member
The long rifle made for better publicity photo along with providing a great connection with our Founding Fathers.
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thomas15
Member
Eye opener.
Agreed: the Democratic party is alienating everyone who is pro-gun.
The problem here isn't with saying "Democratic officials and donors are pushing this gun control stuff;" it's with saying "since the Democrats are against us we must be for the Republican agenda," or "if you're not a Republican you're not Pro-Gun."
Classical Liberals are pro-gun, and they're being forced out of the Democratic party by progressive identity politics which are essentially anti-freedom. They should be welcomed by pro-gun organizations, and the public perception of the NRA shouldn't be "it's a Pro-Gun, Pro-Christian, Anti-Abortion, Pro-Death Penalty group that opposes higher taxes and social welfare." It should be "The NRA protects gun rights and has some great training." That's how they grow and gain power.
I'm not saying the NRA is supporting the Republican agenda, but we want to prevent the perception that NRA and Republican Party are synonyms. And that perception is growing.
Those that value an armed populace as a bulwark against tyranny come from all sides of the political spectrum. Some of them might fear potential right-wing tyranny more than left-wing, but who cares?
They're allies if we don't alienate them on other issues.
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You made some valid points Derek. Ideally, it would be great if the NRA could remain neutral on non-gun issues. However, you're drawing some very fine lines that when put into practice in a two party system get immediately blurred by the vast majority of the public who will never analyze these boundaries so meticulously. When pro-gun Republican candidates are endorsed by the NRA they are inadvertently and indirectly supporting the rest of the Republican Platform as well and that is the way the vast majority of the population will always see it...
old lady new shooter
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Well... so maybe the ticket is to encourage registered Dem THR members to work on changing their party's position on the 2A.
old lady new shooter
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There should be an organized group "Democrats for the Second Amendment" and we here (and of course the NRA) should support them.
I frequently get "How are we doing and what would you like to see changed" surveys. You can be sure that I take each and every one as an opportunity to rail against the anti gun owner plank of the Democratic Party. I would love to post the links to those surveys here, so we can flood them with pro gun owner rights positions on those surveys; but I am not clear on THR policies about that, so I don't.
I have also taken the opportunity to speak at the local caucus about the gun control problem with the Democratic Party. It is a loosing issue.
I agree that we are better served by helping pro gun owner rights Democrats than by further aligning ourselves to a single party.
There is The Liberal Gun Club. Of course, I am a member. However, they don't get much press because they fit neither sides current narrative.
Swifty Morgan
member
The DNC platform is a recipe for heartburn. Gun makers do NOT enjoy "dangerous legal immunity." If a gun blows up in your hand or causes other problems related to defects, you can sue the manufacturer, as Remington learned with the Model 700 suit. I get so tired of hearing this canard.
As for Democrats coming to this website, there is a big difference between wanting to own a gun (or frequenting a gun forum) and supporting 2A. Our civil right to own and carry guns is about self-defense and fighting tyranny. It has nothing to do with hunting or target shooting. Many gun owners are only interested in shooting sports and would love to ban carry weapons, handguns, and all semi-autos.
England is a rifle hunter's paradise, but try getting a weapon for self defense there.
A few years ago, some idiots sent me material encouraging me to sign up for a new "gun rights" organization. "We're all about firearms! Join us in the cause!" It turned out to be a gun-grabbing operation in disguise. They wanted gun owners to sign up and support them (and their lobbyists) to give legitimacy to the notion that "responsible" gun owners want gun control, which, at first, doesn't have much effect on hunting weapons. Of course, they concealed their philosophy and the organization's origins in their sales materials.
As for Democrats coming to this website, there is a big difference between wanting to own a gun (or frequenting a gun forum) and supporting 2A. Our civil right to own and carry guns is about self-defense and fighting tyranny. It has nothing to do with hunting or target shooting. Many gun owners are only interested in shooting sports and would love to ban carry weapons, handguns, and all semi-autos.
England is a rifle hunter's paradise, but try getting a weapon for self defense there.
A few years ago, some idiots sent me material encouraging me to sign up for a new "gun rights" organization. "We're all about firearms! Join us in the cause!" It turned out to be a gun-grabbing operation in disguise. They wanted gun owners to sign up and support them (and their lobbyists) to give legitimacy to the notion that "responsible" gun owners want gun control, which, at first, doesn't have much effect on hunting weapons. Of course, they concealed their philosophy and the organization's origins in their sales materials.
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thomas15
Member
It's not often I start one and never in this sub forum but I'm really sorry I started this particular thread.
herrwalther
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I expect Oliver North will be able to rein in Wayne LaPierre better than Pete Brownell. While Wayne LaPierre isn't the president, he is by far the most recognizable administrative member of the NRA.
I am not. I was a NRA LOD member for 2 years but have let the membership lapse when I started to pay more attention to the activism portion of the NRA.
Yup. My brother is a Democrat *gasp*. And I can talk to him about guns pretty much anytime. Politically he and I agree hardly agree on anything. But we do agree on many gun issues. We both grew up in NY and both of us refuse to go back, with gun rights being a huge part of the reason.
Polarizing politics is ridiculous. Just because someone is Democrat or Republican does not mean they follow the party line to the letter. I am a registered Republican, but that doesn't mean I blindly support the GOP on every issue.
AlexanderA
Member
It's worse than that. The growing perception is that the NRA is an arm or subset of the Republican party. What follows from that is that the Republicans are setting the NRA's agenda, rather than the other way around. And judging from the NRA's recent actions (on bump stocks, etc.) this may not be very far from the truth.
AlexanderA
Member
The closest is the Liberal Gun Club.
AlexanderA
Member
My inbox is full of such things from the Democrats. They're just veiled requests for donations. Those Democratic fund raisers are not really interested in what you or I think.
AlexanderA
Member
Absolutely not. North wouldn't have been nominated without LaPierre's active blessing. LaPierre knows he'll have him in his pocket.
I get a kick out of pro-gun Dems criticizing the NRA and the Republicans. Start by getting your own house in order and fix your own party regarding 2A rights... If it wasn't for Republican support for 2A you wouldn't have half the gun rights you currently have if the Dem's leadership had their way...
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While, yes, they are always attached to a fund raising appeal, I do know that the data is aggregated and reviewed.
Ah yes. . . the 'ole "do it first" fallacy. This is voices as, Before doing this thing, we should do this, unrelated, or at best tangentially related, thing. I see this one with things like "before going to Mars, we should fix the environment (as if people can agree on what that even means)."
I am not going to address the content of your argument, not because it would be hard to address, after all, it isn't. the reason that I am avoiding this argument is the very reason I am here. There are plenty of "gun" forums that are little but thinly veiled religion (and one religion only) and politics forums that sometimes talk about guns. This forum seems to be focused on gun talk. I agree that the NRA, GOA snd Amendment Foundation, and others, are all gun related; but "R=Good : D=Bad" introduces issues that go far beyond gun talk.
As it happens, I have already stated my on North in this new role. I think it is a good choice. There were several good choices; he is one of several.
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