I am looking at a new muzzle loader, Traditions Vortek Strikerfire, and I was thinking about putting a peep on it. In Utah we can only have a 1X scope which I have found to be not that great a deal and my eyes are getting old enough that iron sights don't work so well anymore. The Vortek rifle comes with Williams open sites but is not drilled or taped for a peep of course. Would a peep work mounted where the sites mount or would I need to mount the peep closer to my eye?
Peep sight ?
- Thread starter Muddydogs
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Closer to your eye.
Won't work out on the barrel.
rc
Won't work out on the barrel.
rc
BCRider
Member
To gain the sharpening of the eyesight it's best if the rear aperture is close to your eye. So that pretty much means a tang mount or at least rear of the receiver.
A "peep" sight up where the stock rear sight is located isn't a peep at all. It just becomes a keyhole to peer through. Some sharpening might occur but not as much as a smaller hole back at your eye will provide.
It's pretty easy to try this for yourself. Use a rifle length stick of wood with a cut off nail for the front sight. Then clamp, nail or screw on various apertures at the rear/tang area and usual front sight distance and see the difference. If you have a short length of pipe strap around the small and large holes in the strap provide good sizes for trials of this sort. Otherwise make something up using the side skins of an old pop can. You can drill clean holes in this if you clamp it tightly between a couple of pieces of wood.
Once you have a feel for what works for you try it in both bright and dim light and see the differences.
A good general purpose size rear aperture for hunting would be something around 1/16 to perhaps as big as 3/32. But I think you'll find that you get enough light and better sharpening of the target with 1/16. Smaller is even better of course. But with smaller apertures such as .035 you really start to need a good bright day. In the dimness of the woods that small an aperture makes the dim view even darker to the point where our eyes and mind processing the picture can't compensate.
A "peep" sight up where the stock rear sight is located isn't a peep at all. It just becomes a keyhole to peer through. Some sharpening might occur but not as much as a smaller hole back at your eye will provide.
It's pretty easy to try this for yourself. Use a rifle length stick of wood with a cut off nail for the front sight. Then clamp, nail or screw on various apertures at the rear/tang area and usual front sight distance and see the difference. If you have a short length of pipe strap around the small and large holes in the strap provide good sizes for trials of this sort. Otherwise make something up using the side skins of an old pop can. You can drill clean holes in this if you clamp it tightly between a couple of pieces of wood.
Once you have a feel for what works for you try it in both bright and dim light and see the differences.
A good general purpose size rear aperture for hunting would be something around 1/16 to perhaps as big as 3/32. But I think you'll find that you get enough light and better sharpening of the target with 1/16. Smaller is even better of course. But with smaller apertures such as .035 you really start to need a good bright day. In the dimness of the woods that small an aperture makes the dim view even darker to the point where our eyes and mind processing the picture can't compensate.
Sunray
Member
A 1X scope will beat any iron sight, any day. Has to do with the eye's ability to focus on multiple objects. It can't. Peeps remove one object. However, as mentioned, peeps belong close to the eye.
I have red dot sights on an AR or two and I don't really like them, switched one red dot out already. I much prefer the 1X to a red dot any day. A 1X is fine but really doesn't do anything for me and since they are hard to find and generally have small objective's I was thinking I would be better off with a peep in low light conditions. Once I get the rifle I will see if there is anything that might keep me from having it drilled and tapped for a peep, if so then I guess Iwill try out the Vortex 1X scope on this one.
ColtPythonElite
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A small ghost ring out on the barrel in place of your rear sights notch will work well. I have a set of JP ghost rings for a CZ trainer. They work much better than the rear notch.
mgkdrgn
Member
Actually not true. On both my Mosin M44 and my Rossi M92 lever I have peeps "out on the barrel" and they work very well.
Pete D.
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aperture
The ladder sight on the 1903 Springfield had an aperture on the slide that adjusted up or down on the ladder. It was quite far from the eye...past the breech....and worked very nicely.
The Buffington sight used on the 1873 Trapdoor also had an aperture on the ladder slide.
Pete
The ladder sight on the 1903 Springfield had an aperture on the slide that adjusted up or down on the ladder. It was quite far from the eye...past the breech....and worked very nicely.
The Buffington sight used on the 1873 Trapdoor also had an aperture on the ladder slide.
Pete
Sheepdog1968
Member
This is what I was going to say.
Johnny_B_Goode
member
It really depends on if you are far sighted or near sighted. If you are far sighted a peep sight will work just fine. If you are near sighted an optic would be worth the money.
My wife has astigmatism. She can handle the peep sights on Hi Point 995 at SD range. At 10 yards she will put all 10 shots in the black on a B34 (half size) target, even using a a flashlight.
My wife has astigmatism. She can handle the peep sights on Hi Point 995 at SD range. At 10 yards she will put all 10 shots in the black on a B34 (half size) target, even using a a flashlight.
Curator
Member
Look for a Parker Hale 5A rear sight. It fits the No1 Mk3* with no drill & tap and is regulated for the .303 British cartridge. Most 5As have a milti-aperture eye piece as well. Spend a few bucks and your rifle will shoot like a laser and be worth more with the addition of the PH sight
FWIW I hunt with a Hawken with a tang mounted peep. It is great in the accuracy department but low light is a real pain. Only my natural, well-practiced, over the years cheek weld has made me able to kill game after about 430 in the afternoon, because I sure as heck could not see sharply through the peep.
I would think that even a 1x scope would gather tons more light and be more effective. Scopes don't work well on Hawkens or I would put one on.
I would think that even a 1x scope would gather tons more light and be more effective. Scopes don't work well on Hawkens or I would put one on.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
I've tried barrel mounted apertures and receiver mounted apertures. The downside with the barrel mount is that I am looking at the aperture instead of looking through like on a receiver mount. Which doesnt aid my eye with "focus assist" if you can call it that.
So bottom line for me is, a receiver mounted sight let's me see the front sight better while a barrel mounted sight is about like looking at a rear sight blade with a hole in it.
cluttonfred
Member
I'd contact the Williams sight folks and ask them which one of their receiver-mounted sights would fit and then have it mounted.
Skylerbone
Member
I swapped out the irons on my New Englander for a Williams peep and as it happened, first day out I caught a big buck leaving the corn on opening day. He laid down, fully exposed at less than 20 yds. so I knelt down, shouldered the rifle and could not find the dern peep to save my life. Fired anyway. As the smoke cleared in the dim morning light I watched that majestic beast stand then trot away carrying with him as big a rack as any I've seen up close.
I have relied on scopes ever since.
I have relied on scopes ever since.
fotheringill
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Call William's and also talk to someone at Tech Sights.
perrytrails
Member
Skinner sights makes peep sights for many rifles. I mounted a reciever peep on my henry big boy 44. Awesome!!
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Totally true. A barrel mounted peep has no advantage over any other barrel mounted sight. A peep is designed to be close to the eye. Mounting it on the barrel nullifies all its advantages. Those being longer sight radius, greater field of view and only having to focus on the front sight.
A 1x scope might gain you a few extra minutes of shooting light but it won't be as drastic as some suggest.
Skylerbone
Member
To me it's about acquisition of sight picture. Looking for a tiny aperture (yes mine was barrel mounted) and the corresponding front post was nowhere near as fast as centering a deer's vitals through a ~40mm ocular lens during iffy light.
I like tang mounted peeps as a general rule but with deer season averaging 4 days a year for me I can't afford to waste any opportunities. I agree on barrel mounting issues, just not a great solution.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
That's a training/practice issue. When you bring your rifle up to your shoulder and get a proper cheek weld, you shouldn't have to "find" the aperture.
Then that was your problem.
Skylerbone
Member
I was in my teens at the time (several decades ago) and devoted far more time to chasing skirt tails than whitetails.
Pete D.
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barrel
Barrel mounted aperture. Referring again to the ladder sight on the 1903 Springfield....I shot my first MOA group (7/8ths c-to-c) with that aperture.
There is no denying, though, that when WWII came and newer versions of the Springfield were produced, they mounted the aperture close to the shooter's eye and it was quite effective.
Barrel mounted aperture. Referring again to the ladder sight on the 1903 Springfield....I shot my first MOA group (7/8ths c-to-c) with that aperture.
There is no denying, though, that when WWII came and newer versions of the Springfield were produced, they mounted the aperture close to the shooter's eye and it was quite effective.
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