People of Walmart

[Ignition Override]

If a customer had called 911 out of hearing range, would the OP guy have noticed a nervous young LEO approaching, possibly while the customer still holds the gun In His Hand?

How about being noticed by another person legally carrying a gun who happens to walk near by?
Imagine the possible misunderstandings, assumptions and serious risks.

Let's remember the black guy in a WalMart parking lot, who had adjusted his legally concealed gun, but who (being unaware) was seen by another shopper, and as the black guy enters the store the muscular Wannabe Hero tackles him from his 6 o'clock in a very serious struggle for the gun. This was on store video. I'm curious how many tens of thousands of dollars the victim received from the ignoramus attacker in civil court litigation.

 

[Robert]

TM,
I live in COS and see people open carry all the time. I've only seen a couple guys carry in what I'd consider a proper open carry holster. 9/10 times it's just flipping around in a nylon Uncle Mike's holster just waiting to fall out... I hate to say it but gun owners are often our own worst enemies.

 

[.308 Norma]

If a customer had called 911 out of hearing range, would the OP guy have noticed a nervous young LEO approaching, possibly while the customer still holds the gun In His Hand?

Could have been a disaster.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

TM,
I live in COS and see people open carry all the time. I've only seen a couple guys carry in what I'd consider a proper open carry holster. 9/10 times it's just flipping around in a nylon Uncle Mike's holster just waiting to fall out... I hate to say it but gun owners are often our own worst enemies.

I see that a lot but I do have to say this guy didn't fit that mold. He was carrying a Kimber with what appeared to be Crimson Trace grips. He wasn't dressed like a slob or Joe Tacticool, he was wearing a matching Levis shirt and jeans and appeared to be in his mid fifties. The only thing that looked cheap was that holster which appeared to have zero retention

The only part the Open Carry played in this was that if the guy had been carrying concealed I (obviously) never would have seen the gun and never would have asked. That said, when I first saw the guy the gun was obscured but I saw a tacticool flashlight on his belt and I had a feeling he was carrying. I didn't see the gun till I turned around to put my milk in the shopping cart.

I'm pretty libertarian when it comes to open carry. I have no interest in doing it myself but I couldn't care less if you want to. I will add one caveat to that though, if you're carrying a long gun it needs to stay slung and none of this carrying it at low ready crap and if you're carrying a handgun it needs to stay holstered.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

If a customer had called 911 out of hearing range, would the OP guy have noticed a nervous young LEO approaching, possibly while the customer still holds the gun In His Hand?

If you mean me, yes I would have noticed. Noticing things is like my super power

 

[beatcop]

Leave it in a holster.

When I carried a 1911, I preferred a thumbreak holster, something in front of the hammer makes me feel a little better.

A yaqui just wears out your pants and your bluing.

 

[browningguy]

Remember that 1/2 the people you meet every day are below average in intelligence, that will keep you from being surprised and disappointed.

 

[.308 Norma]

When I carried a 1911, I preferred a thumbreak holster, something in front of the hammer makes me feel a little better.

Me too.

 

[Hanzo581]

This thread reminded me of this.

 

[Ignition Override]

Trunk Monkey:
Sorry, I mistakenly meant to suggest that the guy exhibiting his handgun might not have noticed an LEO, especially from a blind spot.

 

[Tirod]

It would seem from the descriptions of other gun carriers brought up that the gentleman carrying a 1911 extended in a yaqui was doing a pretty good job.

My question is "what is fouling the barrel?" I'm guessing a concern that something might get lodged in the muzzle and cause difficulty when shooting? If so, it might be valid, but I would seem (to me) to be less probable than dragging myself thru thickets and brush hunting deer with a rifle. We don't know - but he may have kept the pistol out of the holster driving there and just slipped it in getting out of his vehicle. He may well be highly versed in carrying a firearm in an open slide holster.

Why question him in the first place? Or is there some indication that one gun owner seems to think they know more about carrying than another and needed to be corrected in public about it? I've mentioned gun ownership just once to a concealed carrier and got exactly the same response, it was Show and Tell time with the gun out, magazine out, chamber cleared, and my coworkers getting all slanty eyed about the proud owner. Nope, I won't ask again. And I don't go out of my way to question others about their choice of holster.

It WAS a holster, at least. As long as it's America we should reserve our instructional moments to the appropriate time and place - especially if unasked for.

It does come to mind I haven't seen a gun in my workplace in at least a week. Most are in nylon fabric holsters - there are professional grade versions out there, I used one on duty myself. What we might think at first glance about the use and safety of a holster should be tempered with the thought that someone else will always suspect your method and style as being "inadequate." They sell full flap holsters and lanyards - we should adopt a truly professional way of carry established nearly 150 years ago as a minimum, eh? Compared to that, almost any other holster is a skimpy unsafe muzzle fouling accident waiting to happen.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

It would seem from the descriptions of other gun carriers brought up that the gentleman carrying a 1911 extended in a yaqui was doing a pretty good job.

My question is "what is fouling the barrel?" I'm guessing a concern that something might get lodged in the muzzle and cause difficulty when shooting? If so, it might be valid, but I would seem (to me) to be less probable than dragging myself thru thickets and brush hunting deer with a rifle. We don't know - but he may have kept the pistol out of the holster driving there and just slipped it in getting out of his vehicle. He may well be highly versed in carrying a firearm in an open slide holster.

Why question him in the first place? Or is there some indication that one gun owner seems to think they know more about carrying than another and needed to be corrected in public about it? I've mentioned gun ownership just once to a concealed carrier and got exactly the same response, it was Show and Tell time with the gun out, magazine out, chamber cleared, and my coworkers getting all slanty eyed about the proud owner. Nope, I won't ask again. And I don't go out of my way to question others about their choice of holster.

It WAS a holster, at least. As long as it's America we should reserve our instructional moments to the appropriate time and place - especially if unasked for.

It does come to mind I haven't seen a gun in my workplace in at least a week. Most are in nylon fabric holsters - there are professional grade versions out there, I used one on duty myself. What we might think at first glance about the use and safety of a holster should be tempered with the thought that someone else will always suspect your method and style as being "inadequate." They sell full flap holsters and lanyards - we should adopt a truly professional way of carry established nearly 150 years ago as a minimum, eh? Compared to that, almost any other holster is a skimpy unsafe muzzle fouling accident waiting to happen.

Or, you know I was honestly curious and asked the guy a polite question. Sorry I didn't live up to your standards of gun etiquette. Please forgive me

 

[Sam1911]

Ok, well, now, let's try to remember to write -- and to read what the other guy wrote -- with a warm smile, and hold back assuming that everything that could be taken as harsh criticism is meant that way.


Gun etiquette is multi-faceted and probably more complicated than any of us give credit.

Some would say that mentioning the gun you see on someone's hip (concealed, certainly, or maybe even openly carried) is rude. Akin to mentioning their underwear you noticed peeking over their waistband.
Other say bringing up someone else's sidearm is perfectly fine, but of course you don't want to encourage or entice the other person to draw it.

Some would say mentioning the gun is fine, but it needs to be in a superficial, polite way: "Nice Glock." And that being too inquisitive about a detail might be seen as criticizing or asking someone to defend their choices.

I.e: Maybe asking about debris getting up the guy's barrel with that kind of holster puts him on the defensive because it indicates you think that's a bad choice and now he has to either admit he's irresponsible or defend his decision. That would be a bit rude.

But others would say, "I don't care if it's rude, if he's carrying irresponsibly he needs to be corrected." Maybe a guy with a floppy Uncle Mike's holster and a gun half falling out of it needs to be told to shape up before someone gets hurt. Maybe a guy with a slide style holster should be told that there really are better choices out there that protect and retain the gun much more completely ... but that's less clear.


Truth is, while we're all starting to get used to more folks carrying, and more folks open carrying, the social aspects are still very unfamiliar. Few of us feel perfectly at ease when some stranger comes up and starts talking about our carry gun. Even if we're OC types, that's not very comfortable. Most of us would keep our wits about us and not put a hand on it, of course, but we do have to make a lot of assessments pretty quickly about this person who's just interjected themselves into our sphere. Are they hostile or friendly? Are they too friendly and eager? Are they trying to lecture me, or are they asking for advice? Are they just making idle small talk? Are they going to ask something really stupid, like to touch it or see it? Or are they going to do something really stupid like whip out their own to show me? How do I disengage from this person's unexpected attention without seeming rude or calling any more attention to the two of us? Etc. etc.

Do people normally walk up to strangers and start talking to them? Isn't that at least a little bit odd, without some obvious need or reason? Is it any less mildly alarming when the object of their attention is your firearm?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I'm sure he didn't mean anything by it, but its definitely not a good idea to pull out your loaded firearm in public.
I can't think of a non-emergency situation where that would be acceptable.
But, I have indeed witnessed it several times before.

 

[Sunray]

"...Great way to cause a panic..." Good way to get shot too. Is there anything about 'brandishing' in Colorado's CCW rules?
Yaqui Slide holsters are just minimum leather holsters. Have a couple designs, one of which covers the entire trigger and its guard. A full sized 1911A1 will disappear using one.
"...Predators such as coyotes, wild dogs, feral cats and raccoons are very common..." In downtown London(almost 400,000 living here) too. Not many feral dogs, but lots of cats. Bambi, Pepe and Wiley are everywhere.

 

[Jim NE]

The only time I pull my carry gun out to show it someone is at the LGS, where they know me pretty well. I wouldn't do that at any LGS. A department store is something I wouldn't do. I think it was a couple of years ago that the cops were called to a Walmart because a teenager was carrying a BB rifle around the store. The teenager was shot and killed by the cops. Different context, maybe, but still....

 

[grampajack]

I'm pretty sure it's illegal in my state to unholster/unsling a firearm without a danged good reason.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

"..Is there anything about 'brandishing' in Colorado's CCW rules?

Felony Menacing

CRS 18-3-206. Menacing(1) A person commits the crime of menacing if, by any threat or physical action, he or she knowingly places or attempts to place another person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury. Menacing is a class3 misdemeanor, but, it is a class 5 felony if committed :

a) By the use of a deadly weapon or any article used or fashioned in a manner to cause a person to reasonably believe that the article is a deadly weapon; or

(b) By the person representing verbally or otherwise that he or she is armed with a deadly weapon.

I think it would come down to intent and I don't think it was there

 

[grampajack]

Felony Menacing

CRS 18-3-206. Menacing(1) A person commits the crime of menacing if, by any threat or physical action, he or she knowingly places or attempts to place another person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury. Menacing is a class3 misdemeanor, but, it is a class 5 felony if committed :

a) By the use of a deadly weapon or any article used or fashioned in a manner to cause a person to reasonably believe that the article is a deadly weapon; or

(b) By the person representing verbally or otherwise that he or she is armed with a deadly weapon.

I think it would come down to intent and I don't think it was there

I think "disorderly conduct" would be more likely. That seems to be their catch all charge for any stupid activity involving a gun that's not technically illegal.

 

[george burns]

Don't get your undies in a ball when I say this, But 20 years ago, we didn't have this problem IMHO, because there were only real gun enthusiasts "for the most part", rather than a lot of wana be, seals and tactical ninjas had guns. Now I believe in our Constitution to its fullest, but just like we suddenly realized how many idiot people since this past election are in our country, who don't belong here. And the amount Political Correctness, there is here and in The UK. It staggers the mind to try and understand how anyone could want to give our hard earned money to people who are illegal, let alone give some of the same idiots who are for keeping them all here while thay try to kill us , a gun.
And I am sure there are many undocumented illegals who got permits just like they got deivers licenses. Just a thought, there really should be some degree of intelligence when handing out permits to undocumented illegals, like in the states where no permit is needed. that means some Jihadist is going to get an AR with no questions asked. Again every "American" is entitled to the rights afforded to us under the Constitution.
Also much of this stem from the lack of disipline that the generations years ago, either served in the military, or their parent did. This gave the a strong structure with which to teach their kids how to handle and respect guns.
Now we have a generation or two, where no one has seved in many familys, and this also helps turn them into a bunch of tv/video junkies who have learned gun handling from those same sources.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Leave it in a holster.

When I carried a 1911, I preferred a thumbreak holster, something in front of the hammer makes me feel a little better.

A yaqui just wears out your pants and your bluing.

Thumb break holsters can be dangerous if you canny cocked-and-locked. The Galco Fletch was notorious for wiping the safety off.

 

[22-rimfire]

I think the Walmart incident was poor form and I suspect the OP is correct in that the guy with the gun realized after he removed it from the holster that it was not a good idea at Walmart.

 

[Sam1911]

Don't get your undies in a ball when I say this, But 20 years ago, we didn't have this problem IMHO, because there were only real gun enthusiasts "for the most part", rather than a lot of wana be, seals and tactical ninjas had guns.

And yet, gun accident numbers keep falling. Not the rate per capita, which would be cool on it's own, but the actual number of accidental deaths:

There were 489 unintentional firearms-related fatalities during that time period, the lowest total since record-keeping began in 1903, accounting for less than 1 percent of accident deaths.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...deaths-drop-to-record-levels-report-says.html

So it's complicated. Yeah, the older generation(s) were more used to firearms, it is said, than the current generation, but today's folks appear to actually be safer with them!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

My point is, if we have a problem with guns, we should be able to show statistics. But we can't -- gun accidents are declining, even as more people carry guns. CCW holders are FAR less likely to have an ND or misuse a gun than police officers.

And gun owners states with constitutional carry, and those with no training requirements are just as safe and well-behaved as those with the most stringent rules.

 

[PabloJ]

Conversations with strangers should be limited to weather and sharing info whether particular item is good or not based on actual experience. I almost never start conversations with strangers when shopping.