Pit Bull Rampage

[lysander]

Ladies and Gents....a "real life" scenario for you to ponder:

You live on a quiet suburban street. Two young children are being escorted by an adult door to door while they make an effort at collecting for a fundraiser. It is a pleasant Saturday afternoon. The two boys arrive at a house in the neighborhood (the wrong house) and are met by 3 Pit Bulls...who escape from their owner's home and attack them. From inside your home you hear a ruckus and come outside and see the three dogs mauling a young boy. What do you do?

This just happened on Saturday in one of Chicago's far northwest suburbs. The final tally was:
Owner gets his thumb bit off.
One boy in critical condition.
One boy in serious condition.
Father attacked.
Neighbor attacked.
Finally police arrive and rack up 3 dead Pit Bulls.

Sadly...Illinois is not a CCW state. Nor is it terribly friendly to gun owners...I am surprised that not one neighbor had at least a shotgun available.

Escaped Pit Bulls Attack Six in Illinois

CARY, Ill. - A 10-year-old boy was in critical condition Sunday after three pit bulls escaped from a home and went on a rampage, attacking six people before police shot and killed the dogs, authorities said.

No charges had been filed Sunday, but McHenry County Sheriff Keith Nygren said it was being investigated as a crime scene.

Neighbors said the attacks started late Saturday afternoon when children going door-to-door for a fund-raiser arrived at the home of Scott Sword, 41, who owned the dogs.

"We had music playing, and I heard this bizarre sound," said Debby Rivera, who lives three houses away. "I looked out the window, and I saw a young boy. The dogs were just jumping on him."

"The screams were horrible," she said. The dogs were "relentless, like they were possessed."

The pit bulls attacked the two children, and when the dogs' owner tried to stop them, the dogs turned on him and bit off his thumb, Nygren said. The boy's father also tried to protect his son and was attacked. The dogs went after another neighbor as well.

"The scene sprawled over a couple blocks, it was a very chaotic scene," said Lt. Michael Douglas of the Cary Fire Protection District.

Residents threw rocks at the dogs and honked car horns to try to distract them from attacking before police arrived and shot the animals.

Jim Malone said he and a neighbor tried to beat the dogs back with baseball bats. "He'd hit them, they'd run, and they'd come back," Malone said. "This went on for 15 minutes."

The boy who was attacked, Nick Foley, was hospitalized in critical condition Sunday. His friend Jordan Lamarre, also 10, was in serious condition. Nick's father was listed in good condition. Sword and two others were treated for injuries and released.

 

[HighVelocity]

Very bad indeed. I hope the boys recover. As for the owner, he should be locked up in the nearest state housing facility. This is unacceptable!

 

[Stevie-Ray]

What do I do?

If I have clear shots, I kill every damn one of the dogs. Only good Pit Bull is a dead one. I for one am sick to death of hearing about these and Rottweilers also. And don't bother to try to argue that "My Pit wouldn't attack anybody, he's just a pussycat."

One of the reasons I carry. There's too many idiotic morons on macho trips that own these dogs and can't control them. One approaches me or the wife without a leash, it's dead. Period.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

One of the thoughts I had when first reading this story was "Why doesn't anyone grab a damn gun and kill them one by one?" Then I realized it was probably those wonderful gun control states with the safety of the people in mind....

My heart goes out to those children. If something like that happened near me, I would emptied every gun I had to save them. I realize some people love this breed of dog but why do we continue to tolerate violent animals like they're some sort of status symbol?

 

[EddieCoyle]

I hate pitbulls. I've had experience with them too. If you're in a reading mood, check out this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=156409

Here's a synopsis of my pitbull experience from that thread:
A pitbull attacked a little girl on my street. I was unarmed and working on my car at the time, so I sprayed the dog in the eyes and mouth with brake cleaner and it let go of the girl. Her father didn't pursue it, but the same pitbull later took care of itself by picking up a lit M-80.

For those pitbull defenders out there, beware of your dogs! One of my best friends had the sweetest, good-with-children, would-never-hurt-anybody pitbull that for no apparent reason (other than something suddenly and unexpectedly triggering in the dog's pea-sized brain) jumped out of the window of his van and brutally attacked an old woman on a bicycle. This dog was lovingly raised with his kids (and mine) and never showed any signs of aggression.

 

[P95Carry]

We must be careful here - previous pit threads have finished up going south!

I will admit tho I have little or no wish to see such dogs - anywhere. I know some folks love em and do not wish to upset good responsible people but - for me a Pit is as needy of control by its owner as a loaded gun. Some other dogs too in truth.

There is something genetic in there which lies dormant it seems so often - and ''ping'' - suddenly everything changes. Things are even worse when those dogs are brought up by macho dudes who train them to be aggressive - and then maintain inadequate control.

 

[torpid]

The pit bulls attacked the two children, and when the dogs' owner tried to stop them, the dogs turned on him and bit off his thumb, Nygren said. The boy's father also tried to protect his son and was attacked. The dogs went after another neighbor as well.

The thing that concerns me is when people have any animals that they can't control.

I don't mean folks not caring about what their animal does, I mean decent people who just cannot stop the animal from its misbehavior (running, attacking, etc.). I especially get irked when I see things like a 9-year old girl being dragged by a dog twice her size on a leash.

If you are going to have an animal, you must be able to keep control of it during a "malfunction" (for lack of a better word). In my opinion, it's the gun equivalent of keeping the muzzle pointed downrange. If the animal is beyond your ability to restrain (or stop- even through grave measures if necessary) you're in essence "sweeping" the world with your animal with your "finger on the trigger".

This goes for any animal that can do serious harm, I'm not on any bandwagon here.

.

 

[Warren]

Almost all of the homeless/streetscum in the downtown area have one or more Pits.

It is only a matter of time until something happens.

 

[Lupinus]

I will never own a Pitbull, Rottie, or Doberman nor will I even even allow one in my home. And if one comes at me or my family and even hints at being violent it will get a bullet in the head, if no gun its getting stabbed or a steel toe boot. They are usless animals bred for nothing more then to kill. Do I blame the dogs? No, it is what they were bred for. I don't blame a pitbull for attacking any mroe then I blame a hunting dog for bringing home a rabbit. But that does not mean you have to accept it and I far from accept it as not not being dangerous. That is what they were bred to do you can't train genetics out of a animal, simply won't work.

For those "my pit bull" or "my rottie" "is nothing but a big pussy cat" people are casulties waiting to happen, its like holding a grenaide with the pin removed convinced it wont go off cause it is wet, simply isn't the way things are. I know a man who was mauled by his rottie, thing was the biggist pussy cat you ever saw and was one of the best trained dogs I have ever come across. Jumped through a window and damn near killed him. Nother family two dobermans, they attacked the couple that owned them its jsut damn good luck their two young children were with their grandparents for the day. I could go all day with how many times I have met someone attacked by a pit bull but the ones above were close personal friends.

Those breeds are worthless and if you own one as a family pet you are nuts and in my prayers.

 

[joab]

Aw hell P95 this thread started going south by the third post

Everything said here about the owners need for these dogs to boost their macho level is very similar to what anti gunners say about guns being an extension of our manhood.

All the "He was such a good dog and never would do that" comments are eerily similar to what we hear the mothers of shot by cop delinquents.
We seem to dismiss their statements as poor excuses for bad parenting, but accept the pit bull owners statements as proof that pits are evil dogs.

As I have said many times before the majority of press described pit attacks are in fact pit mixes usually pit/lab mixes.
Maybe it's the labs that are evil.

As far as the man going to jail
Was the attack on his property? Within a fenced yard?

Pits are hunting/fighting dogs with a strong prey instinct, but with minimal natural human aggression instincts when you start mixing and otherwise practicing in irresponsible breeding practices problems start.

Regulation before the fact , of all large dogs, is what is needed.
Not holding the owners up for condemnation after the fact

 

[Warren]

The difference between Pits and guns is that a bunch of guns won't crash through your screen door and chase innocent people down the street shooting them.

 

[HD]

can we get diane to back an assault dog bill ?

every macho ftard in our town has a pittrottiemastiffbulldog to make up for their tiny little 'clinton'...
hate the dam'd things , only good use is in soups and stews...

 

[joab]

The difference between Pits and guns is that a bunch of guns won't crash through your screen door and chase innocent people down the street shooting them.

The comments are still based on ignorance
The association between a pit bulls free will and an inanimate gun has never been made

 

[JohnKSa]

So, would this thread generate the same ire on both sides if it the caption read "Large Dogs Rampage"?

Personally I don't care what breed or species it is, if it poses a real threat and it is attacking me or someone else, it's going to be lucky to live.

 

[silverlance]

rotts

I used to love the idea of owning a big scary rottweiler that will function essentially as an extension of my youknowwhat.

But a certain incident changed my mind.

About two months ago, I was out walking my Jindo (it's a korean dog, primitive breed, sticks VERY close to its owner and sort of resembles a huskie). We're walking down the street, leash/harness in my right hand, wrapped around fist (i never want to take chances), pooper scooper in my left.

Across the street, Mel, this guy who keeps a big rottweiler named Exo (he says its armenian for love) has him out on his front yard without a leash. There is no fence.

So, I wisely choose to keep walking on the other side, keeping a firm grip on Stalin, who is visibly eyeing the other dog very warily. Exo is just lying on the grass, thumping his tail.

Mel calls out, "Come on over! Exo is very friendly, he won't do anything. I guarantee you HE (emphasizes HIS dog) will be good."

Stupidly, (this is my first dog and i figured it might be good to teach socializing skills to Stalin) I walk over.

Everything is fine, Mel says good morning, we talk about the nifty allen scooper than i'm using, and then WHAM! all of a sudden Exo jumps up and charges Stalin and I (probably more stalin than me).

Just like that - no warning, tail thumping on grass second, charging 125lb (i'm guessing) full-grown rott the next. Stalin leaps up and meets him mid air, 45lbs vs ~125, and they go down in a tangle of snarls and paw punches. I pull stalin back behind me, shove my side into exo, and try to keep myself between the two dogs (which in hind sight was probably risky... but exo seemed much more interested in getting to stalin than me). Mel starts yelling and hitting exo with a CUCUMBER, beating him a whole bunch of times before the dog retreats. mel chases him back into the back yard, apologizing the whole way, saying that "maybe he smells something he doesn't like, he's never like this with any dog, just ask nydia (neighbor) , he plays with her dog all the time."

in short, some things learned:

1: NEVER let your dog outside without a leash, even if it's a 6" poofball. this is for far too many reasons to get into, use your head. what if your poofball runs out into the street? bites a baby in a stroller? starts a fight with a rott? the list goes on.

2: NEVER fall for "oh, he's totally friendly, he won't mess with your dog". unless you see a form of control, stay the hell away. no leash = irresponsible, stupid owner. you should also notice that very often the same ones who run their dogs around with no leash are also the ones who never walk their dogs because they're too damned lazy, so they figure that 15 minutes in the front yard will do the trick. rotts/pits also never get walked beceause their owners are afraid of "accidents".

3: carry something to deal with dogs. these days i never walk stalin without either a boker 3" knife, black bear's 951 maglite, or sabre tear gas/pepper spray. today, if i saw exo running to attack me, i would

a: pull my weapon.
b: drop leash.
c: spray, beat, or stab the hell out of the offending dog. i don't care if the neighbor hates me for life, this is a dog that can kill mine and then go for me. stalin (now 80lbs) may or may not win, but there is for sure no way I can outrun a pitbull.

final note: while i certainly agree that it is almost always the UPBRINGING that causes animals to be monsters, i am also certain that dogs are not tabla rasa or all equally "good at heart". from what i've read and seen over the years, pits and rotts are the equivalents of hand grenades, rpgs, and land mines.

safe if properly cared for, inexcusably dangerous if even slightly mishandled.

 

[Mad Chemist]

Pitbulls are dangerous.
We should ban them.

It's about RESPONSIBLE ownership....
Responsible dog owners,
responsible gun owners,
and responsible drivers work very hard to prevent and avoid accidents and injury.

Irresponsible people do not.:banghead:


Nearly all dogs have the potential to be dangerous even if they have never been aggressive before. Smaller weaker breeds can be just as dangerous as a pit. Generally the breed matters much less than the training and temperment.

 

[JohnKSa]

silverlance,

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

You know how you can tell someone's lying about their dog or their child? (Sometimes they don't know they're lying.)

When they start a sentence with the words:

"My child/dog would NEVER..."

Mammals are complex organisms. So complex that it is not possible to reliably predict their behavior to the extent that one can accurately say "NEVER' about any voluntary action.

Generally the breed matters much less than the training and temperment.

Perhaps, but NEITHER means anywhere near as much as keeping them under CONTROL. And I'm not talking about shouting at them. Even a leash can be insufficient control in some circumstances.

 

[antarti]

every macho ftard in our town has a pittrottiemastiffbulldog

Lupinus can probably vouch for the fact that most of rural and suburban Florida is crawling with Pits. You can't open a newspaper/flier/adbook without finding people breeding and selling them. You see them everywhere.

I'm leery seeing them walked at the beach or at parks. Kids playing (and what kid doesn't want to pet a dog?) everywhere.

 

[joab]

I kill every damn one of the dogs. Only good Pit Bull is a dead one.

"Why doesn't anyone grab a damn gun and kill them one by one?

I would emptied every gun I had to save them.

And if one comes at me or my family and even hints at being violent it will get a bullet in the head, if no gun its getting stabbed or a steel toe boot.

every macho ftard in our town has a pittrottiemastiffbulldog to make up for their tiny little 'clinton'...
hate the dam'd things , only good use is in soups and stews...

I see your point.
It is so obviously the pit bull owners that have the "macho" attitudes here

 

[pax]

I don't see a whole lot of discussion of Strategies or tactics here ... nor do I see anything at all even vaguely gun-related if we aren't going to discuss strategies or tactics.

I guess if this were the strategies or tactics forum, we might expect people to discuss what strategies or tactics would be appropriate for dealing with large, aggressive packs of dogs.

pax

 

[joab]

Well, we've learned that further aggravating them by throwing rocks and blowing car horns doesn't work.

Maybe wading in and actually making the dogs break contact would be a more appropriate method

 

[pax]

Joab, my aunt tried that -- and had to have her face surgically re-attached. I wouldn't recommend going hand to hand with an aggressive dog.

pax

 

[sm]

In this case, with the firearms laws being as they are-

Sounds as if the neighbors with baseball bats were the only ones with a plan, with tools and took action. Strategies and Tactics if you will.

As far as an Adult with two kids going door to door, only things I can think of is the adult having a walking stick, or heavy cane and pepper spray - if these are legal in the area this occurred.

Does not sound as if time to run to the responsible adult's car , inside of owner's house, or that of a neighbor was an option. Matters went south too fast. Evade to safe area would be a thought, like I said does not seen time , or distance were in these folks favor.

 

[joab]

and had to have her face surgically re-attached. I wouldn't recommend going hand to hand with an aggressive dog.

The only other option is sitting back and watching
loud noise and rocks only further exites them
Going hand to hand when not qualified (for lack of a better word) only gives them more targets.
If your not willing to get into a dog fight don't interfere with one

I have never had to fight multiple dogs, but I have won a few full fledged fights one on one, once with a wolf hybrid.
The owner was a dainty woman sge had no "clinton at all"

 

[joab]

Sounds as if the neighbors with baseball bats were the only ones with a plan, with tools and took action. Strategies and Tactics if you will.

Just my opinion based on experiences and some of the training films I've seen on the matter.
But swinging for the fences is not always the best tactic or strategy.
You may be better served by holding the dog off with the bat or stick or whatever.
The dog wants/needs to bite something stick the bat in his face and give him something to occupy his time as you back away to safety.

A purse , belt, leash or jacket would work also, as he is satisfying his oral fixation and thrashing his head you maintain just enough back pressure on the object to keep his attention on that object as you slowly back away.