Playing the probabilities in a robbery...
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lemaymiami
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Not sure where to start (and I won't say much more than the minimum...). Almost a year after my shooting incident I found a book on surviving armed combat - it's titled Street Survival and it's a manual for cops covering tactics and every other aspect of armed conflict in policing. Chapter 13 (if I remember correctly it's called Afterburn) covers every aspect of what happens to officers after an incident, citing examples, of officer's reactions after the fact.... I found that I went through many of them. My first reaction was elation that I'd survived, the next was shock, then extreme emotions of every sort. They included the desire to personally apologize to the dead man's family (among other foolish notions).
That sort of stuff is why most modern police outfits will not allow a shooting officer to make any statements at all until at least 24 hours have passed. My department wrote that into our shooting policy years later and it fully passed the standards (CALEA) required for national accreditation... In my case, I was required to do a re-enactment (video taped by our state's attorney's office) less than two hours after the shooting, while still on the scene where it had happened -then write a full report of the incident. All of this was after watching that young man die at my feet while paramedics worked on him. I found myself aiding them any way I could as they tried to save him.
In later years I was the supervisor, then the commander of officers involved in shooting incidents. I'd come a long, long way by then and was able to make sure that none of my officers ever faced anything similar....
I'd like to think that I'd act appropriately if ever faced with a shooting situation again - but that's something you'll only learn the hard way. Some will act, others won't and I'll never bet which way it will go.. or what the outcome will be. That's just how unpredictable those sorts of things are. No matter what you plan on doing when thinking in advance about this sort of stuff you'll find yourself reacting as best you can - then living with the results good or bad. By the way, I highly recommend that book I mentioned. The tactics mentioned are a bit dated but the essentials are all there - and some of it will really get you thinking.
That sort of stuff is why most modern police outfits will not allow a shooting officer to make any statements at all until at least 24 hours have passed. My department wrote that into our shooting policy years later and it fully passed the standards (CALEA) required for national accreditation... In my case, I was required to do a re-enactment (video taped by our state's attorney's office) less than two hours after the shooting, while still on the scene where it had happened -then write a full report of the incident. All of this was after watching that young man die at my feet while paramedics worked on him. I found myself aiding them any way I could as they tried to save him.
In later years I was the supervisor, then the commander of officers involved in shooting incidents. I'd come a long, long way by then and was able to make sure that none of my officers ever faced anything similar....
I'd like to think that I'd act appropriately if ever faced with a shooting situation again - but that's something you'll only learn the hard way. Some will act, others won't and I'll never bet which way it will go.. or what the outcome will be. That's just how unpredictable those sorts of things are. No matter what you plan on doing when thinking in advance about this sort of stuff you'll find yourself reacting as best you can - then living with the results good or bad. By the way, I highly recommend that book I mentioned. The tactics mentioned are a bit dated but the essentials are all there - and some of it will really get you thinking.
Guy de Loimbard
Member
Past is no guarantee of future. In the last month and a half there have been a string of 8 armed robberies around here (Jonesboro, AR). First 6, no shots fired. 7th, shots fired. 8th, they got caught about two hours after the robbery. It is suspected that the same 2-man crew that were caught committed all 8 robberies.
That does not take into account that you may not run into the same person/group of people that comitted "32 of these in the last year". You may run into someone who knows it is a good location for easy victims, but may have different intentions.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
That seems to fit pretty well with what I said before:
Emphasis added.If you're looking for "SURE," you've picked the wrong game. Try the ponies.This is a violent encounter we're discussing. There is nothing sure about it. Nothing that says he won't hurt you. On the other hand, the OP has something (in the form of prior local knowledge) that seems to well indicate that criminal actors operating in this way in this place are trending to not escalate to lethal violence, so that could be a great indicator of a likely path through. Of course, you can go for your gun instead. Maybe that would work. Maybe it won't. Maybe there are several possible positive outcomes and several possible paths to a quite negative one. You have to use your "street smarts" such as they are. And they may tell you that you MUST shoot. Listen to them, roll the dice and take your chances.
SURVIVING is the point. I could care less how PC or un-PC it sounds, but if crawling and licking the aggressors boot gets you and advantage to draw or to survive, then do it. If you don't like how that sounds, die... or grab iron and possibly die.
What SAM1911 says is right. The options are PISS and POOR. Choose.
What SAM1911 says is right. The options are PISS and POOR. Choose.
Hit the nail on the head, Kleanbore!
You made the points that came to mind as I was reading. It is an all too common misconception that in Texas, one can use lethal force to protect ANY property. It's rare in most jurisdictions to be able to respond to theft of property with lethal force at all. And while at least we are granted some protection in Texas, you gotta meet those criteria.
That beng said, it's still not a good idea unless you are in fear for your life.
Patrick
You made the points that came to mind as I was reading. It is an all too common misconception that in Texas, one can use lethal force to protect ANY property. It's rare in most jurisdictions to be able to respond to theft of property with lethal force at all. And while at least we are granted some protection in Texas, you gotta meet those criteria.
That beng said, it's still not a good idea unless you are in fear for your life.
Patrick
I know that James Yeager isn't a popular character here, but when I was getting into firearms several months ago, I stumbled on one of his earlier videos where He's inside a court room, doing an intro to a DVD.
He basically asked the rhetorical questions to the viewer... "Is it worth that $50 bucks in your wallet, to keep from killing a man? Is it worth that same $50 dollars to keep yourself out of a courtroom? Is it worth giving up $50 to avoid thousands in legal expenses after a shooting?"
That video stuck, and it added another dimension to carrying a firearm for self defense that I hadn't yet thought of.
My feelings on the matter echo much of what's been posted already here. If there's any way to avoid shooting someone, be it giving up my wallet or whatever else, I'm going to do it.
(By the way, I just wanted to express a thank you for the insight posted so far. I really do appreciate all the wisdom shared from the older generation.)
He basically asked the rhetorical questions to the viewer... "Is it worth that $50 bucks in your wallet, to keep from killing a man? Is it worth that same $50 dollars to keep yourself out of a courtroom? Is it worth giving up $50 to avoid thousands in legal expenses after a shooting?"
That video stuck, and it added another dimension to carrying a firearm for self defense that I hadn't yet thought of.
My feelings on the matter echo much of what's been posted already here. If there's any way to avoid shooting someone, be it giving up my wallet or whatever else, I'm going to do it.
(By the way, I just wanted to express a thank you for the insight posted so far. I really do appreciate all the wisdom shared from the older generation.)
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Ouch.
Ouch.
LOL! No offense guys... I'm 26, so it seems like everyone is older than me it seems like...
Twmaster
Member
Threads like this should be must read curricula for anybody seeking to carry a firearm. Even in Texas!
I especially love the second wallet idea. Heck, I even have a junk cell phone if they want it!
I especially love the second wallet idea. Heck, I even have a junk cell phone if they want it!
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