Progressive

[hpluseleven]

Mr Wile,
Thanks for you input, I appreciate hearing the opinions of people with far more reloading experience than I have.

 

[noylj]

I certainly found changing primer size on the L-N-L to be a LOT easier than on the 1050.
The only two difficulties I had were:
1) not being able to bend over and having to remove and install the correct primer seater. Removing wasn't a problem, but installing takes some getting used to.
I used a reversible ratchet wrench.
2) Getting the spring back on the primer slide. I found a small 90° needle nose pliers and that job got a lot easier.
Changing primer size took about twice as long as replacing the dies and shell plate. Since I only use large primers for .45 ACP and 10mm Auto, I didn't have to change the priming system very often.
Buy a bag of three case-retention springs and one replacement pawl. If you don't ever force anything, you will probably never need the pawl--but it is cheap enough to have in reserve.
Don't get a case feeder until you have reloaded without it and determined if you really need it.
Be sure the bench is as rigid as possible. Progressives need a very rigid bench.
The Hornady L-N-L powder measure is excellent. However, some just can't handle the linkage and PTXs.
The Dillon measure and their version of PTXs (or, as they call them, powder funnels) is simpler to use--but, in my experience, is harder to adjust and lock into a specific charge weight and is not as repeatable as the L-N-L measure.
With the L-N-L, for $10 you can buy a replacement charge metering assembly and keep one already set for a specific charge weight. Sure beats buying a micrometer metering assembly.

 

[Walkalong]

I am perfectly happy loading cases and bullets in the L&L by hand

Me too. I even cut off the arm that the brass feeder mounts to.

Heck, if some old Alabama Bubba can do it, why can't I?

Exactly!

I cannot take credit for the set screw idea.

I always thought the bushings were a waste of time, but now I like them. Quick and easy. I do use spacers under my solo crimp dies to vary the crimp without have to move the lock ring, so I still screw them in and out of bushings before mounting them on the press. (This way I know I get the exact same amount of crimp when I change back and forth to "light", "medium", "heavy", etc. (Or anywhere in between. I log the spacer used.)

 

[cfullgraf]

With the L-N-L, for $10 you can buy a replacement charge metering assembly and keep one already set for a specific charge weight. Sure beats buying a micrometer metering assembly.

I like micrometer heads on my powder measures and even purchased the micrometer head for the L-N-L powder measure.

After using the L-N-L for a bit, i went back to the stander metering insert and bought one for each caliber that I load. i store the insert in the box with the dies.

As a note, the micrometer head does not make the powder measure more accurate, it just makes it easier and quicker to return to a particular charge setting, assuming you have recorded the setting at a previous session.

 

[cfullgraf]

I always thought the bushings were a waste of time, but now I like them. Quick and easy. I do use spacers under my solo crimp dies to vary the crimp without have to move the lock ring, so I still screw them in and out of bushings before mounting them on the press. (This way I know I get the exact same amount of crimp when I change back and forth to "light", "medium", "heavy", etc. (Or anywhere in between. I log the spacer used.)

I would have been happy if the L-N-L did not have bushings. Screwing dies in and out is not a big deal for me. But, since it has the bushings I use them and have warmed up to them like Walkalong.

I use a Lee non-clamping lock ring on my powder cop die so that I can easily adjust it for different cartridges. The powder cop die is too expensive to buy one for each cartridge that I load on the L-N-L. I adjust it while confirming the powder measure is throwing the correct charge.

 

[Muddydogs]

Me too. I even cut off the arm that the brass feeder mounts to.
Exactly!

I have been thinking about doing this. I always set my empty case bin to close and it catches on the brass feeder arm. Guess I should check on the price of a new sub plate incase I ever wanted to add a case feeder in the future but right now I don't see the need with the $28.00 bullet feeder.

 

[Blue68f100]

Once you ever use a Brass feeder it's very hard to back up. Recently I had the need to deprimer my brass so I could use a liquid cleaner. I just dumped them in and started running the ram up and down as fast as I could. It was taking me <9min to deprime 200 rounds. The brass feeder rocks once you learn how to get it adj correctly. Smaller the brass the harder it is to get dialed in.

The LNL Bushings system is nice if you need to change dies frequently. I have the Micrometer head on my pistol rotor, it dies give you a little finer control. I use the std one for the Rifle rotor.

If you have NO Mechanical Ability, a progressive can and will be testing you. You have a lot of things go on at once and it only takes one to throw things out of sequence. But if you need to reload 1000's of rounds at a time it the only way to go, 4-5 times faster over a SS Press.

 

[David Wile]

Hey Blue,

As mentioned, I do not care for the case feeder, but that does not mean that I have never used them. I have one friend with a case feeder on his L&L and another friend with a case feeder on his Dillon 650. I used both of those machines to do several hundred rounds on each. No doubt about it, they speeds things up a bit, but the increase in speed is not worth the cost of the feeder nor the inconvenience to me. I say inconvenience because I actually prefer placing the shell in the shell plate by hand. I also find the case feeder to get in the way for me, and most importantly, I cannot stand the constant racket they make. I don't see how folks put up with the noise. I also cannot stand the noise my vibratory case cleaner makes. When I clean my cartridges in the vibratory cleaner, I either put it in another room, or else I turn it on and leave while it is operating. I can listen to music while I load, but those noisy things drive me crazy.

Obviously the noise does not bother you, and I can see how your depriming a couple hundred cases would go slick as can be using a case feeder and simply cycling the handle. Empty brass up top and deprimed brass falling in the tray would certainly go very quickly. In my case, however, I simply never have occasion to just size or deprime the brass on my L&L. My brass is not cleaned until after it is reloaded, and then I use the big Lyman vibratory cleaner. I do a lot of special loading on single stage presses, but if I have a job for the progressive L&L, I do all the operations at one time rather sizing and priming as some folks do.

You and some other folks also mention having pistol and rifle rotors as well as micrometer heads on your powder dispensers. I suspect you guys must have newer L&L models than mine which was made in early 1997. My powder dispenser has the Case Activated Powder Drop, but the linkage is a bit different than what is shown in their manual for today. My powder dispenser seems to be the same as those used today, but it only has one rotor (the part that travels in the dispenser), and it has two micrometer type adjustable inserts (one large and one small). My case eject wire and primer feed system are original, and I know the newer presses have some differences in these features. My L&L is all original and works real well, so I never saw any reason to upgrade to the newer features.

As I said in my earlier post, I do not care for the whole quick die change system and would like to fix my bushings in place - EXCEPT for the powder dispenser bushing. When I change calibers, I do not mind changing dies at all. However, adjusting my Case Activated Powder Drop for different calibers requires my pulling the unit out and placing it back in several times to get it adjusted properly, so the L&L bushing is great for powder dispenser station.

I agree completely with you that a progessive press can be a real problem for those who are lacking in mechanical aptitude and patience. Like you said, lots of things going on at one time, and you have to understand these intricate operations to make it work properly.

I may not like case feeders and bullet feeders for myself, but I would not tell you or anyone else they should not like them. My only suggestion to new folks is to try a progressive press for a while without these expensive add ons. Better yet, find a friend who has a feeder and see how they work. You may find out you really do not need or want them, and you can save spending a lot of bucks not buying them.


Hey Walk,
Now you tell me you also cut the case loader arm from your sub-plate! You sure do have lots of grit when it comes to making alterations to your L&L machine. Considering what you have done to yours, I think I may just get up enough nerve to do some drilling and tapping for each of my station bushings.

I sold almost 50 guns this past August, and I thought I would sell my progressive L&L as well as my Hornady 366 progressive shotshell machines and just keep my single stage presses. But, I really like mechanics of my L&L, and I think I will have to keep it along with my RockChucker. I guess I will sell my other single stage metallics and my progressive shotshell machines.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[Walkalong]

I really like mechanics of my L&L

Me too. That is what made the difference for me so long ago when I bought my Projector. I love the mechanics of the LNL and how I can keep my right hand on the handle while my left hand feeds brass (left pan) and bullets (right pan). Very smooth. Plus the case is right there where I can see into the case before seating a bullet.

I gave up on the priming on the Projector. Ever see my "repair" on my Projector after losing patience with the priming/indexing one night?

I am sure the priming is night and day better on the LNL now, and I know the indexing is with the newer shell plates with two sturdy spring loaded indents vs one puny one.

 

[BeerSleeper]

As I said in my earlier post, I do not care for the whole quick die change system and would like to fix my bushings in place - EXCEPT for the powder dispenser bushing.

If the LnL AP is like the LnL single stage, the bushings can screw out. It may be possible to find a replacement screw in bushing that would convert the press to standard screw in bushings.

 

[Walkalong]

A machinist could make them easily if they are threaded. Interesting idea.

 

[BeerSleeper]

I think the LnL socket has 1-1/4"-12 threads on the OD. The bushings then have standard die threads (7/8"-14??) on the ID. Finding a custom bushing that has the corresponding threads on the ID/OD should do it.

The tricky part (other than finding this bushing), will be making sure each station has the same height. If you leave your lock rings on the die when you thread it out, and the next time you thread it into, say station 3 instead of the station 4 used last time, then you want them to be at the exact same height.

If you go to the trouble of resetting your dies every time you change, then it wouldn't really matter. Also wouldn't matter if you are a creature of habit, and will always expand in station x, seat in station y, and crimp in station z, etc.

 

[BeerSleeper]

Kind of need a bushing that does the reverse of what this set does: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/858110/hornady-lock-n-load-press-and-die-conversion-bushing-kit

 

[joed]

hpluseleven, thank you for a cost breakdown. Amazing how much the Dillon presses are going up in cost. I purchased my 650 a few years ago for $390 and some change. The new press is over $500. I'll make one prediction and that is the Hornady will soon follow in an increase.

Myself, I've owned nothing but Dillon, every model except the SD. Been happy with every one of them too. My favorite is the 1050, that is the flagship. Never seen anything else like it either.

When I decided on a progressive I looked at the LnL. Back then they did not have a powder thru expander which meant it took 5 stations to do what Dillon did in 4. The only complaints I heard from LnL owners at the time were ejection problems. Since then Hornady redesigned the shell plate system but that meant $ from the pockets of older owners. Other then those items I see nothing wrong with the LnL.

If I were in the market for a press I'd look at both, but I don't know what I'd decide. But I doubt you could go wrong with either choice.

 

[Striker Fired]

One issue I have with the LNL is the #8 shellplate for 9mm.Some brands of cases are acually hanging off the ram plate by the rim groove.I was getting some crooked rounds and having the cases tipping and not lining up with the dies.Then I saw a gap underneith some of them and could see what was going on.For now I have been using #10 plate for 10mm and it is working,but I'll have to have Hornady exchange plates.