Proposed 'ghost gun' rule could reshape battle against homemade guns: Experts

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With anti-gunners in charge of the White House, Senate, and House, I expect this will be rammed through with little opposition. I don't even expect a grandfather clause in this one.
 
I’m a huge supporter of all things firearm, including the right for law abiding people to make and use their own firearms. ( I live in a State where you can’t make your own handguns and the 80% AR is going the way of the dodo bird in July.) But the misuse of these home made guns by the criminal element across the Country is going to absolutely ruin it for all of us who abide by the rules and don’t go out looking to shoot other people. :fire:

Once this ban mentality gets traction, and it gets more every week with incessant reporting of the latest act of criminal ignorance, it’ll be the end of them for everyone. :(

Stay safe.
 
Are they talking about AR uppers too? From thr article it didn't seem as though they were differentiating from 80% recievers and any other reciever/kit.

I can't imagine how many millions of 80% lowers that are out there and will remain out there. Are they planning on ramming this through before the mid terms? I'm going to be really pissed if people are going to be expected to get their uppers and lowers matched serials. What a waste of effort, if this becomes the case there is going to be 3-5% compliance.
 
We had a shooting at a HS a couple weeks ago. Kid came in and shot a VP and SRO, before himself getting shot. The news is all over it using the term "ghost gun". Well shame it is not. It is what we would call a defaced firearm. SN# ground off.

So just like the term the media uses "assault weapon" take with a grain of salt all the things you see about "ghost guns". I am sure there are some, but I doubt that many.

Just your media at work.
 
What most of those articles fail to mention is that a good majority of recovered firearms are actually factory gun with the serial number removed. If you ask police departments, and they give an truthful statement, they will tell you that most recovered guns are factory built and have had the serial numbers removed. The actual number of 80% builds recovered is lower that what the media is saying. It is all hype for the anti-2A agenda.

And the proposed rule change concerning frames and receivers got way beyond just home build firearms. It will also effect all of the guns made prior to 1968 that never had a serial number too. So the Fudd's with grampa's guns will be effected also. We need to stand together on this no matter if you like or dislike 80% builds.
 
herrwalther said:
I don't even expect a grandfather clause in this one.
Click to expand...
How would a "grandfather clause" even work? As I understand it, the proposal would apply at the commercial level, by requiring unfinished receivers to have serial numbers and go through the FFL system. Existing private ownership is not addressed, except in the event of resale. Maybe I'm wrong here.

There are various stages to the process: (1) the fabrication of the unfinished receiver by a manufacturer, (2) the sale of such receiver to a consumer, (3) the completion of the receiver into a working gun, and (4) the possible resale of the working gun to someone else. Which of these stages would be targeted by the proposal?

The way I see it, a person might buy an unfinished receiver for either of two purposes: (1) to assemble it into a working gun, or (2) to assemble it into a dummy display collectible. There are thousands of dummy display machine guns out there, made in exactly this way. If the dummy receivers are suddenly deemed to be "guns," then we will have thousands of instant NFA violations. In fact, any unfinished AR-15 receiver could be deemed an NFA violation, since the "third hole" could be drilled very easily while milling out the firing group pocket.

Either a piece of metal is a gun, or it is not. If we're going to start labeling precursors as "guns," where do we draw the line? Any hunk of aluminum or steel could be a "gun." The existing rules (so-called "80%") were an attempt to draw a line. Flawed as these rules are, messing with them opens a can of worms.
 
And don't forget another thing with this new rule change. You won't be able to buy/replace a pistol slide, AR upper, or barrels without them being serialized and going through a FFL for purchase.

From reading the proposed rule changes, people can still possess finished 80% firearms without serial numbers. But once they go to a gunsmith or FFL for any reason, then a serial number MUST be applied to the gun. This again will effect all of the firearms made before the enactment of the 1968 Gun Control Act too.

So as you can see, this rule change will also effect collectors too.
 
I'm trying to figure out how tracing where a gun came from solves a crime? Or stops crime?

Serial numbers are needed only to make universal background checks (UBC) work. Government wants to know who owns what and who transfers what. It's the only way UBC can be enforced. The alleged purpose of UBC is to prevent transfer of a firearm to a prohibited person but the real purposes are to: 1) frustrate the ability of lawful gun owners to transfer their personal property to others without government approval, and 2) collect information about who owns what to be able to enforce future gun bans.
 
Here’s a question for current FFLs and LE - In the majority of cases, does it even help an investigation to be able to discover the first transaction of a firearm? Example, a newly manufactured firearm is sold to Joe Public. It’s then sold, resold, stolen, lost an unknown number of times, then ends up being used in a crime. What good does it do to know it was originally sold to Mr Public? If Joe Public himself uses it in a crime, again, the 4473 serves no real purpose in the investigation.
Ar the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I think the 1968 GCA, like 99% of federal law was a “Gotta do something” response that just created a lot of unintended consequences
 
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I'm not seeing where it will require uppers to be serial numbered, unless Im missing something.

As I read it..they are requiring 80% Frames and receivers (ie...lowers) to be serial numbered...

Still infringement, and in my opinion, outside their authority within the law.

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?
 
Megawatt maker said:
I'm not seeing where it will require uppers to be serial numbered, unless Im missing something.

As I read it..they are requiring 80% Frames and receivers (ie...lowers) to be serial numbered...

Still infringement, and in my opinion, outside their authority within the law.

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?
Click to expand...

I would figure the usual Illuminati cyphers would be screaming this from the roof tops about the uppers, and you’d see every company that makes a ton of uppers openly announcing and explaining planned contingencies. Instead everything has been about braces/pistols.
 
You gotta have a lot of experience and time to be able to make a real "Ghost Gun" in one hour. I cannot see a gangbanger expending the money and time to become proficient at this endeavor.

He will go up to the corner and peel off 10 one hundred dollar bills, buy one and maybe scrape off the serial numbers if they are still there.

More than a few years back I was interested in doing this as a fun project. I looked at the requirements (and expertise) to do this and I decided that it was not worth my time, effort, and money...and the risk that I would harm myself with it.

As I remember the component kit alone was about $500. Add the price of a 80% lower and other components like parts kits to the price of a drill press and I was far better off at a LGS.

The talking heads like the sound of the word "Ghost."

And 24,000......really? From 350 million citizens.
 
ABC News is just like, you know, like, possibly the BEST pro-2A info source:neener:.

12Bravo20 said:
will be effected also. We need to stand together on this no matter if you like or dislike 80% builds.
Click to expand...

AlexanderA said:
...and go through the FFL system. Existing private ownership is not addressed, except in the event of resale. Maybe I'm wrong here., OK, to be correct just ad, ''for now.'' They'll get around to it.

There are various stages to the process: (1) the fabrication of the unfinished receiver by a manufacturer, (2) the sale of such receiver to a consumer, (3) the completion of the receiver into a working gun, and (4) the possible resale of the working gun to someone else. Which of these stages would be targeted by the proposal? All 7 of them. That's gov't think run amuck.
Click to expand...

Get ready for the already inked and correct venue / judge planned LAWSUITS.
As already stated, where's the grandfather to tell the wayward child that there SHOULD be ...a grandf. clause? As is the normal reasonable course?

And doubly so for the ''clarification ATF/ alphabet letters''. We the manufacturer want Ye The Gov. to examine this item of ours before sending it to market. Is it a pistol/rifle/not prohibited please. Sample is stamped Ok and returned- We have CAREFULLY examined the item and researched CURRENT RULES and LAWS.... you are O-- KAY/ APPROVED. And the public ACTED ON THAT INFORMATION, in GOOD FAITH. Now, as if that was before AA and the agency was on a drunk, a supposed sober mind now pens new regs. NOT.

And the rights of the many should NEVER be abridged because of the abuses of a FEW. Whether indecent dressed women at the store, alcohol consumption, speed limits etc. And I'll continue buying a BIG GULP full of sugar & caffeine sody ever so often, thanks.

All those who haven't earmarked a few bucks (even the lowly $5 spot) to GOA or FPC or other REAL 2A rights organization I guess the minority of us will carry your o_Obu... er, rears. Again; if a suit isn't filed successfully on this, even your single action and pellet gun isn't safe and the proponents of these grabs have stated such very plainly.
 
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I've long since said there needs to be some sort of reasonable legal metric applied. Unnecessary restrictions (infringemnts) are 99.99999% of the time either a minor or major inconvenience to the ordinary law abiding citizen, having lil to no effect on the criminal who's willing to break the law with no regard and will either obtain the gun stolen, straw purchase or otherwise illegally obtained. So if 1 out of 10,000 people illegally obtains a gun and 1 out of 100,000 uses it in a crime, on what grounds are these people able to justify putting the squeeze on those of us who buy, own, make, sell, trade firearms lawfully? There is something wrong with these metrics.....
 
Being precise is going to be difficult if we are having to rely on the fuzzy writing and fuzzier logic of modern "journalists."
As a guess, "they" would not require serial numbers, but just ban outright.
Here's some logic: To keep a thing is to acquire that thing, and the fundamental way to acquire a thing is to make it.

If we are to ban deadly things that can be made at home, we'll need to ban "kit cars" too.
 
AlexanderA said:
How would a "grandfather clause" even work? As I understand it, the proposal would apply at the commercial level, by requiring unfinished receivers to have serial numbers and go through the FFL system. Existing private ownership is not addressed, except in the event of resale. Maybe I'm wrong here.
Click to expand...

Same way the AWB from 1994 worked. Anything made prior being legal, and after illegal. I have 2 and working on a third "kit" gun. With plans to build a 4th in an AR platform. I wouldn't want stuff I have already built become illegal overnight because a politician got a burr up their 4th point of contact. I rather not have any gun control passed right now. But I don't think we are going to be that lucky.
 
Government is still run by morons. This kind of bs always only hurts us law abiding citizens. The criminals will continue to get their arms illegally. Will not stop them. Per usual...
 
Aim1 said:
The number of ghost guns recovered seems awfully high.


I'm wondering if they are labeling any gun with it's serial numbers removed a "ghost gun" when in fact it is a regularly manufactured firearm with it's serial removed
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Yes they are including guns with obliterated S/N and may also be counting a gun that was sold to some one 20 years ago changed hands too many times to keep track of and then is found on a perp and/or guns that were reported stolen and found on a perp.

The only time a gun trace is successful is say someone buys a new gun and goes and robs a bank with the gun and is caught.
Or if say I bought a new gun from a dealer, sold it to someone then they go rob a bank with it one day. Cops trace the gun from the manufacturer to the dealer, then to me. Next come to me and I say I sold it to so and so who was not a criminal at the time.
Those are successful traces.
 
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