Pros and Cons about Glock

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If your barrel is lead-occluded, the last thing you want to do is run a jacketed bullet through it!
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+1. That's not even a safe practice in regular rifling. Beretta specifically recommends against it in the newer manuals for their 92 series pistols.
Joe D said:
All I have ever said is I and many others have shot lead through stock Glock barrels for years.
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That's fine, I have no problem with that given that you know the score. I do have a problem with you taking that one step farther (which you have done even on this thread) and stating that it is a myth that one should not shoot lead in Glock barrels.

Whether or not you believe MarkCO (and his credentials make him pretty credible IMO) you still have to deal with the manufacturer and other well-respected experts who say it's a bad idea. At least some of those entities have access to testing equipment, design and engineering experience, and destructive testing results that you and I could never even begin to pay for.

Stating that you shoot lead bullets with no ill effects to date doesn't give me any heartburn. Stating that you have proven it is safe or that the recommendation against it is a myth is going too far, IMO.
His "opinion" is worthless without any testing. At least I have done enough "testing" to prove to me that shooting lead through Glocks is just as safe as shooting lead through any gun.
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You have not done any testing. You have simply gotten away with a procedure that is not recommended for a long time--as have others. That is not testing. It's the equivalent of someone arguing that they have proven to themselves that smoking is safe because they've done it for years without dying of cancer. And saying that their "testing" (smoking for years without getting cancer) makes their opinion more valid than that of the experts.

Does everyone who smokes die of cancer? Nope. Is it safe? Nope.

Does everyone who crosses the street without looking get hit by a car? Nope. Is it safe? Nope.

Does everyone who shoots lead in Glock barrels have a gun blow up? Nope. Is it safe? Nope.
 
John, guess we will not agree on the lead bullet issue. Not a problem for me. Time to move on to other issues.
What I struggle with is proof that these "experts" have actually done any testing. I am yet to find any documented tests.
Think about it for a moment John. Time to push any issues you and I may have aside. Have you ever seen any actual data? I have not. Believe me I have looked for it.
Do I believe one should shoot soft lead bullets in Glocks? Of course not. They should not be shot in any gun. Yes, I have seen a 1911 barrel split due to excessive lead build up. Guy was shooting Zero brand lead bullets. He did not believe in cleaning his barrel. His method of cleaning the lead out was to fire a few rounds of 230 gr ball ammo through his gun.
 
Another reason I don't like Glocks. The only gun I have that doesn't fire jacketed bullets is my black powder cap & Ball revolver. And that gets thoroughly cleaned after every shooting session, and sometimes partially cleaned during.
 
If you have 1911s and a Sig 220...why the hell do you want a Glock?

I ask, because I too own 3 1911s and a Sig 220 and the Glock just does not interest me one bit. The 1911 and Sig 220 are very capable and feel better in the hand than any Glock I have ever shot. Trigger is better, too.

- Brickboy240
 
But the opposite can also be true as you are making an entirely subjective point brickboy. I have several 1911s and 2 Glocks and nothing interests me about Sigs. Sigs are more expensive, lower capacity, more prone to surface wear than Glocks, also head to head normally heavier, less concealable too. They typically have the annoying crunchenticker DA/SA trigger with weird resets. Glocks fit my hand just fine and I have no problem whatsoever switching between 1911s and Glocks. Muscle memory is a wonderful thing. I know SIGs are held to be reliable and durable guns, and I have no reason to doubt that indeed they are so, but I already have Glocks which are reliable and durable and work just fine, so why would I want to pay more for a Sig (when I can pay LOTS more for another 1911 instead :cool: )?
 
1911's are my faviorate and the sig 220 is a nice DA pistol. But given the choice between any non 1911 and a Glock I will take the Glock. It has a better trigger than the sig. The sigs DA is long and heavy often stacking. The SA on the sig is crisp but has a long reset. The sig has a high bore axis which magnifies muzzle flip. I sold my Sig 220 a while back and feel the Glock is a far better choice. But even better than the Glock is a Custom 1911.
Pat
 
Actually, I have found the XDs to be better shooters than Glocks. The trigger on the XD is betteer, too.

The Glock has a wierd grip angle...wierd if you're weened on 1911s, Sigs and Hi-Powers like I am. Its too swept backwards, forcing me to hold my wrist down or shoot too high. If you never shoot other pistol types, it wouldn't seem odd, but if you shoot 1911s, it will drive you nuts. It did for me, anyways.

99% of whether a pistol is for you depends on feel. Actually, the best-feeling hi-cap 9mms to me are the Hi- Power and the CZ-75 - these are not the most popular, though. Alot of people see Glocks in movies and see cops carrying Glocks (hint" Glock goves PDs group discounts) and think they are the best. The "Glock is the only pistol" types are about as bad as the "Colt is the only pistol" types. Both are annoying and wrong.

Whats best for you is the one that fits and the one you can hit with, and that may or may not be the one you see in the movies or on a cop's belt. Other pistols are as durableas a Glock...don't fall for that. Did you see the torture test done on the XD-9 in Handguns Magazine last October? Pretty impressive, I doubt anyone here will subject their own pistol to that kind of abuse.

Why I said what I said was that most people I know can hit very well with a 1911 or some sort of Sig and don't need to look anywhere else. Too many types in your battery can lead to confusion. If you can hit well with a Glock, trade the others on a pistol you can hit better with.

- Brickboy240
 
I agree with evrything there except that the assumption is 1911 shooters can't transfer happily to Glocks. Look at my current list (need to add the RIA I ordered yesterday) - apart from a pocket Kahr all I have is 1911s and Glocks. Doesn't give me fits at all. Sure the grips feel different, but the adjustment for me is easy and automatic. I'm NOT saying it should be that way for everyone and I am sure you are correct in that it causes you problems. It does so not because you are any less skilled or competent than I am (I'd be willing to bet the opposite is probably true - by THR standards I am a subpar shooter) but because of some hardwired physiological differences in how exactly you and I hold guns and change from one grip to another. Grips are incredibly subjective from person to person. One of the most universally praised pistols for natural grip is the CZ75. I hated the thing and it felt horrible to me, but again that's just a subjective anecdote not a reason for anyone else to avoid CZ-75s unless they have the same hands and grip and preferences as me.

I wouldn't use my experience to recommend Glocks to 1911 shooters, but I don't think it's valid to use yours to warn all 1911 shooters off Glocks either.

The best advice is one we both offered - try out the Glocks or ANY other brand before you buy - they'll either feel and point comfortably or they won't. If they do and are otherwise good buys, buy it. If not, don't regardless of their reputation because nothing, I agree, screws up a gun more than uncomfortable ergos.
 
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Actually, I have found the XDs to be better shooters than Glocks. The trigger on the XD is betteer, too.
END QUOTE

Actually Glocks have a better trigger pull due to a much shorter reset. Glocks are better shooters as well. As to the other poster I shoot Glocks and 1911's with no problem in transistioning.
Pat
 
Recommendations? Criticisms?

And if you have a particular Glock you can recommend, what is the most I should pay?
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To answer the original question:

Recommendations? Since you said you want a 9mm then I'd recommend either the G17 or the G19. Personally, I have the G17 and I intend to buy the G26 as a BUG or pocket gun, so I really have no need for the G19. The grip on the full size G17 also fits my hands better than the one on the G19 does. That being said, the G19 is quite possibly one of the most popular Glock models. Do like you said...rent both and then decide which one you like better.

Criticisms? I don't like the plastic sights. That is the only REAL criticism I have of Glocks.

That being said, there are four things that I install on any new Glock that I get:

1) Night sights (for obvious reasons)
2) Extended Slide Stop Lever (makes it easier for me to release the slide after reloading)
3) Extended Slide Lock Lever (makes it easier to get my fat fingers on the lever for field stripping)
4) Grip sleeve (I use a piece of bicycle inner tube cut to the appropriate length).

1, 2 & 4 are a must for me. Number 3 is just personal preference.

Prices?? I paid $475 for my NIB G17. I've seen them anywhere from $469 to $569 NIB. Personally, I wouldn't pay more than $500 unless it came with night sights (which cost $70 to $130 aftermarket depending on which ones you want).
 
Glocks are reliable, fairly inexpensive, have high mag capacities, have a tough finish, are durable, have a crapload of aftermarket accessories, etc. The only minute downsides are that the .45 model 21 has a grip that some feel is too big, but I think it is just fine. Also, lead bullets should not be fired from Glocks.
 
A little more fuel for the discussion.

I shot IPSC for years with a bone stock G21 45 that was also my work gun. In about 4 years of heavy (for me) competition and work practice I put between 45 and 50 thousand rounds through that first G21. I kept track by tearing off the end of the 1000 primer carton and throwing it in the drawer next to my 550 dillon. All of those rounds were 200 grains SWC lead bullets, with the exception of my duty HP,s.

The only failure I had with that early G21 was a broken trigger return spring and a chipped extractor. While the chipped extractor functioned perfectly I replaced it anyway because it was a duty gun.

Then I gave that one to my dad who still uses it. I wanted a new one with the new rail. I did not keep close track on that one but I conservatively estimate it at around 30 thousand rounds. This time a mix of lead and jacketed. Zero parts breakage

I went to work for an agency that issued G21s and I have put around 50K though this gun as one of my jobs has been as a firearms instructor, plus teaching at the local colleges LE program. It has seen mostly ball ammo with maybe a few thousand 230 gr jhp's. Zero parts breakage.

In 2004 I went to John Shaw's Mid South Institute, a military and LE training facility. In 3.5 days I put 5 thousand rounds of 230 grain Blazer ball through my issue G21. It was the most ammo intensive course I have been to and I have been to a few. I NEVER cleaned it with the exception of wiping off the front sight tritium for the kill house and night drills. I wanted to see when it would start to choke. It never malfunctioned even once. That gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling about my issue duty G21 and G21s in general

Form your own opinions about Glocks. I have, based on a whole lot of years of shooting them.
 
I like my Glock 20!

I carry it on duty, daily. When I can, I put the effort into practicing with it. I outshot EVERYONE on the range during qualifications. That should speak for itself.

Scott
 
Epilogue:

I put a NIB G17 on layaway, today. Will pick it up in about a week.

The price was $468.95, before tax.

One question. The dealer said his WW ammo was better than Walmart cause Walmart ammo is "seconds."

Is that true?
 
Nope.

WWB is WWB. There are better levels of ammo sold by Winchester but white box works just great in Glocks and white box is white box is white box.

BTW if your range allows them I have good luck with Blazer Aluminum - even cheaper than WWB and seem to shoot a bit cleaner for me at least.

Enjoy the Glock - nice price and a nice standard gun.

If you find yourself not happy with it after a while one good thing about Glocks also is that at resale they fetch pretty close to new prices as long as they are not abused. You could probably sell that G17 without losing 10% of the value after a few thousand rounds.
 
If you have an Academy near you then you can purchase the Blazer ammo for $4.86 per box. I'm not sure how that compares to WWB at Walmart, but I have given up on buying ammo from Walmart so I'll never know.
 
If you have an Academy near you then you can purchase the Blazer ammo for $4.86 per box.
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As a matter of fact, I do. I've passed the Academy store often, but have never been in.

This is a good excuse to visit.

:D
 
Epilogue:

I put a NIB G17 on layaway, today. Will pick it up in about a week.

The price was $468.95, before tax.

One question. The dealer said his WW ammo was better than Walmart cause Walmart ammo is "seconds."

Is that true?
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Congrats on the G17. You're going to have a lot of fun shooting it, and with the savings on ammo I suspect you're going to be shooting it a lot!!! I also have a P220 and 1911, but that doesn't mean I don't love shooting my G19!!
 
.
Onmilo said:
I find it fairly amusing that even the Glock Company itself explicitly states in the owners manual NOT to use lead bullet ammunition in any Glock firearm...
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 Cite, please, including date of manual.

.
 
Congrats on your G17. You got a good price. I love mine. It is accurate, reliable and tough. The trigger has gotten smoother over the first 1500 rounds too.

I enjoy shooting 9mm because it is cheap, manageable and powerful and accurate enough.

My original G17 has attracted a G19 and G26. Be careful.

I wouldn't do anything to it except maybe adding a grip plug and upgrading the sights. It's fine the way it is, so avoid messing with it much.

Try to get involved in a shooting club and IDPA matches. You will learn some important gun handling skills and make some new friends.
 
JoeD, In another forum, this topic also came up. I agree with you. A gentleman there told me he knew of a forensic engineer (whatever that is) that performed a test that proved Glocks lead more than standard rifling. I asked the same questions with the same results. I wanted to know the test parameters, all of which should be spelled out in a Test Report. No one could site a Test Report. I asked if the same test was done with a standard rifled barrel also. Same response. I'm a retired engineering test lab technician, so I'm familiar with this sort of thing. The lack of information on the subject is suspect. Back in the mid '80s, I had a 17L. I shot thousands of lead bullets through it with very little leading. I would be more than pleased to review these alleged tests. Perhaps they won't hold up to scrutiny, hence their unavailability.
Bronson7
 
As a matter of fact, I do. I've passed the Academy store often, but have never been in.

This is a good excuse to visit.
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Friend, you don't know what you've been missing. Academy is one of my favorite stores for anything sporting good related. :)

I buy my .40 ammo there too. They sell 250 round bricks of UMC for $42 and some change. Hard to beat that price.
 
xxx LEAD for Glock 27

Yep , base from my experience never ever use a lead ammo for the Glock. I always buy a $15 brand name 50 rounds ammo when I shoot my G27. One day I decided to save money:D and bought $12 50 rounds lead ammo. Much to my surprise:eek: , after my 1st 10 rounds the lead got stucked right below the entrance (base) of the chamber and the casing end still held by the magazine. I had to tap the base of the magazine harder :banghead: to free the jammed round. It happened 4 times that day. :cuss:

I talked to a retired cop who is a friend of mine, and said that the lead
produces too much residue and build up when it hits the base of the chamber before the round enters it. not sure if this is true.
 
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