Protestors march against more secure U.S. border

[longeyes]

would that be the Dead Outlaws Society?

Getting harder to be an outlaw, what with the telegraph, railroad bulls, and them thermal image and GPS and surveillance satylite thingies, but it might be better than sitting here and waiting for the knock on the door. Maybe head down to Mexico. Should be an easy ride, everyone comin' the other way...

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I tell you what, Riktoven,

I'll apologize for whatever screaming/inflamatory/racist remarks you imagine I've said.

You apologize for insinuating that Catholics and/or Hispanics are predisposed to spreading disease. (Unless, of course, you have evidence proving that this is true. If that's the case, I'll eat my words.)


Deal?

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I think we freedom-loving nationalists should start a new club: "The Historical Society for the Preservation of Dead American Values." Biker, longeyes, waitone, gc70, you guys and others are welcome to join.

Are free-market capitalists welcome in your club, or is that not one of those traditional American values you think ought to be presrved?

 

[meef]

Quote: meef

...The next time we experience a downturn in the economy here, I’m going to pack up my family and move them into your backyard. No, I mean Your backyard – at your house. I figure we’ll pitch a tent and set up housekeeping....

Quote: Headless Thompson Gunner

You're kidding, right? You think this is an accurate analogy to what's happening with illegal immigration? Please...

The obvious flaw in your logic is that Jammer personally owns his back yard, and as such he has the rights to control how it's used.

You, however, do not personally own all of the United States, and as such, you don not have the rights to control how all of the country's property is used.

Tell me, meef, how many illegals are currently camped out on you own personal property? 30? 10? 5?

None?

Then don't insult our intelligence by trying to equate stealing Jammer's property rights with a Mexican living peacably here in the States.

Headless Thompson Gunner - may I call you Roland?

My post was metaphor rife with exaggeration for the sake of illustration. Although it wasn't all that exaggerated, perhaps?

No, there are no illegals camped on my property (backyard as it were).

There are, however, millions camped out on my country. And I take that every bit as seriously as my backyard in the long view, which is why I took the time to compose my post..

 

[Biker]

I tell ya what, HTG, I can prove that the syph is spreading eastward in Idaho at the same rate that illegals are.
Bet still on? What do you wanna bet? A case of 5.56?
Biker

 

[CAnnoneer]

Are free-market capitalists welcome in your club ?

Certainly, so long as they also cherish all the other American values, including nationalism, fairness, and respect for law.

 

[Blue Jays]

Excellent job, Meef!

Hi Meef-

Outstanding post# 287 above. It explains things in the simplest terms possible. How could anyone still have questions after that fantastic narrative?



~ Blue Jays ~

 

[meef]

CAnnoneer:

I think we freedom-loving nationalists should start a new club: "The Historical Society for the Preservation of Dead American Values." Biker, longeyes, waitone, gc70, you guys and others are welcome to join.

Having already paid plenty of dues (and I have), count me applied.

 

[gc70]

by HTG
(all together now) "No more free government services to non-citizens"

You have nailed part of the solution, but free government services are only the icing on the cake for illegal immigrants - the primary attraction is employment. Illegal immigration will not be resolved until both inducements are addressed.

by CAnnoneer
I think we freedom-loving nationalists should start a new club: "The Historical Society for the Preservation of Dead American Values." Biker, longeyes, waitone, gc70, you guys and others are welcome to join.

Thanks for the invitation, but I don't think American Values are dead just yet.

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Headless Thompson Gunner - may I call you Roland?

Please do. So few people catch that reference...

Where, exactly, are all these illegal immigrants camped out? Youre country, right? But where, specifically/exactly/precisely are all these immigrants?

Think about it in the micro perspective, rather than the macro perspective.

Pick any given immigrant, living in any particular "camp." Unless he's homeless, tell me which specific parcel of real estate he's residing on.

There are only three ways for an immigrant to live on a property: he can rent it, he can buy it, or he can take advantage of some sort of government housing give-away.

If our hypothetical immigrant rents his home, do you insist that you have a right to interfere with a private and personal business dealing between the landlord and our immigrant-tenant? Or do you agree that, in a free society, the landlord's property rights are not subordinate to your own personal wishes?

If our hypothetical immigrant owns his home, do you think he has no right to reside in it? Or do you claim for yourself the right to arbitrarily decide which property owners may use their proerty and which ones may not?

If our immigrant lives in public house, boot the SOB out immediately.

You say that you have some sort of authority over who lives inthis country and who does not. But the population of this country (legal or otherwise) is simply a large collection of individuals. You, meef, have no right to interfere with any of those individuals.

Simply put, you have no business trying to boot other people off of their land. It doesn't matter whether or not they have the official papers. If it's their home, it's their home. They get to live in it.

 

[bg]

Well lets make it semi official. "Senate sticks it to American
values and laws". Some voted yes to keep their seats and in
doing so, have sold out America for a another free ride on taxpayers
dimes. If this isn't isn't a slap in the face of every person
who did go through the immigration process, then what
is ?
http://www.yahoo.com/s/135782/*http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060328/ap_on_go_co/immigration

The very first thing an illegal does once he, she, or they
steps on U.S soil is break the law. Thanks to those
cave-ins in the Senate, these lawbreakers may get a free
ride..That's why supporting HR 4473 is so important.

What the Senate did today is a flat out disgrace.

 

[Biker]

Yes BG, so now what? This isn't a rhetorical question. I (we) need an answer!
***!?
Biker

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I tell ya what, HTG, I can prove that the syph is spreading eastward in Idaho at the same rate that illegals are.
Bet still on? What do you wanna bet? A case of 5.56?
Biker

Can you prove that illegal immigrants are the direct cause of this spread (i.e. that immigrants are solely responsible, and that it wouldn't have happened if not for the immigants), that Catholic values are prime factor in this immigrant-based spread of syph, and this spread has a noticable impact outside of the immigrant community? That's the notion I was trying to dispel...

 

[gc70]

by jlseagull

Every poll i've seen said up to 70% of the Americans want the borders closed.

So you only watch FoxNews?

You might want to look at this compilation of polls on immigration by ABC News, CBS, CNN, Gallup, NBC News, New York Times, Pew Research, Time, USA Today, and The Wall Street Journal - and, yes, even Fox News.

The polls show that Americans are overwhelmingly against illegal immigration. Surprisingly, the polls also generally show that a slight majority of Americans are in favor of reducing legal immigration!

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Well lets make it semi official. "Senate sticks it to American
values and laws". Some voted yes to keep their seats and in
doing so, have sold out America for a another free ride on taxpayers
dimes. If this isn't isn't a slap in the face of every person
who did go through the immigration process, then what
is ?
http://www.yahoo.com/s/135782/*http:...co/immigration

The very first thing an illegal does once he, she, or they
steps on U.S soil is break the law. Thanks to those
cave-ins in the Senate, these lawbreakers may get a free
ride..That's why supporting HR 4473 is so important.

What the Senate did today is a flat out disgrace.

The way I read that article, only the Senate Judiciary committee has voted on the bill. I see no indication of a Senate-wide vote, nor any vote in the House, nor a signature from the President.

I could be wrong, but I think the media is trying to convice us that this bill is now the law of the land, when it hasn't actually received anything more than a committee vote.

This is NOT a done deal. In fact, all it means is that they've agreed to debate the matter. This is a notable improvement over Congress' past habit of ignoring the issue altogether.

 

[Biker]

HTG...

Don't know a damn thing about Catholics, but the stats show that in Idaho, syph and illegals travel the same road. Syph isn't the only disease associated with illegals and there seems to be a causal relationship present.
Can it be proven without a doubt? No, but common sense might prevail if one opened his mind.
Biker

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Comon sense, eh?

Common sense says that STDs are a self-inflicted condition. They don't concern me. They shouldn't concern you either, if you're careful.

Obeying the Catholic strictures regarding sex is actually one of best ways to avoid acquiring STDs. That's why I took offense when someone claimed that the Catholic values held by immigrants would be responsible for spreading disease.

My father is Catholic, and even though I'm Protestant, I was raised according to Catholic values.

But nevermind, let's put this one to rest. I officially concede the point. I retract everything I've said about the matter, and I apologize to anyone I may have offended.



Let's see you argue with that!

 

[beerslurpy]

Wow meef, post 287 for the win. That was a whole bag of brilliant.

 

[Waitone]

WOW! An ill wind is blowing. I hope our elected representatives understand what they are about to face given a wrong decision.

 

[beerslurpy]

Mail them and tell them. Plenty of sample letters have been posted. Take what you like for your own letter and fire away.

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

It occurs to me now just how much of my life I've wasted on this thread. So this will be my last post here.




My interest in all of this is to preserve the property rights Americans have enjoyed for centuries. Property rights are just as improtant to the American tradition as firearms ownership, self-rule, free speech, and all the rest.

My money is mine and mine alone. I am the sole arbitor of which goods (and services!) I purchase with my own money. My property (real estate) is mine and mine alone. I am the sole arbitor of which property I choose to buy/sell/lease, and from which individuals I choose to buy/sell/lease it.

I further expect that my money not be taken from me by force and given to anyone too lazy or shiftless to earn money of his own.

Presence or absence of official government papers does not in any way impact upon these inherent rights. I am a free man, and I demand that I be treated as such.

A necessary corollary is that if another man (citizen or immigrant) earns a wage, that money belongs to him alone. His labor is similarly his, and if he wishes to trade that labor for a wage, such is his right. Official papers do not enter into the equation.

Y'all have said that my views are harmful to the country, or that I'm selling out our future in exchange for a higher profit margin. Nothing could be farther from the truth. All I want is to ensure that future generations of Americans retain their rights to own their own money/property.




Anyway, that's all for me. Adios, y'all.

 

[jlseagull]

I'm just glad GWB is doing so much to save the GOP.

At this rate, he'll drive the religious right and moralists to form their own party and give the GOP back to us who understand the economy is the backbone of a strong nation, not fundamentalism.

 

[rageofangels]

So if so many of you are so upset about the way the things are in the state, why don't we do more than complain about it on the internet? Plan a revolution, plan for making things better, run yourself for government and let me know what I can do to help.

 

[Pafrmu]

Deleted.

 

[meef]

Headless Thompson Gunner:

You say that you have some sort of authority over who lives inthis country and who does not. But the population of this country (legal or otherwise) is simply a large collection of individuals. You, meef, have no right to interfere with any of those individuals.

Roland, I don't have any sort of authority over much of anything. Never said I did.

What I did say in several different ways is that I am very concerned over what the massive influx of illegal immigrants is doing to this country. As an American, a vet, a father of some great (and not-so-great) kids and grandkids - it's not about whether I have a right. I dammit have a duty! Unfortunately many of those in public office who have also sworn a duty seem to be quite capable of putting that duty aside as long as it keeps their political butts in office.

But let's put one thing very straight about our discourse here. You repeatedly make reference to the rights of immigrants to whatever item you are speaking of at the moment. The issue is not Immigrants - the issue is Illegal Immigrants!

I support the right of any and all law-abiding legal immigrants to the American Dream to the best of their ability to pursue and obtain it! I do not support that right to those who are here illegally. If and when you make any further reply to my postings, please keep in mind and make that distinction. Legal / Illegal. That keeps us on the same page.