Don't let this happen

[sonny]

Hmmmmmm?......if a uninvited someone moved into your house and refused to pay rent or contribute with the chores and ate your food and so on and so on,would you treat them the same way you would treat you own children or family members if they behaved in the same way?.......right or wrong somebody has a BASIC right to be in your home...For better or for worse.... and somebody DOES NOT.
What if thir family beat the snot out of them and they had nowhere else to go?....is it your duty to take them in your home and let them make their own set of rules that benifit them and them only?....at your expense?
AMERICA IS MY HOME!
As an american citizen I believe that Americans who were either born here or are here legally should without a doubt be afforded opportunities and PREFERENTIAL treatment ABOVE those who are here ILLEGALLY......bottom line!......sad to say that is not the way it is always.
Go ahead and tear my little scenerio to shreds......they don't belong here unless they are here legally.....anyone who disagrees with me on that is dangerous to MY America.
If anyone wants to argue the the SMALL points it seems to me that you are just exercising your debating skills and you are ignoring what is obvious......we have economic and social problems in this country and if we don't tighten our belt we are in trouble.........imigration is as good a place as any to start.

P.S. I personally know MANY illegal alians and have a great deal of respect for most of them.....my experience has been that they are hard workers and seek a better life for themselves and their familys.....but I would not shed a tear if they were sent back to where they came from and did not return untill they did so legally.

 

[LawDog]

No, Get_Involved, that's your logic. I'm the one who doesn't mind the immigration. You're the getting your Hanes in a half-hitch over immigration.

America is immigration. America is about millions of immigrants.

My ancestors got to the United States in the wave of Scots highlanders fleeing the English crushing of the Clans after Culloden.

Others of my ancestors got here in the flood of Irish "Wild Geese" during the Potato Famine.

Not one of my ancestors had a green card. They didn't check in with INS. Not a single blessed one of them went through a FedGov processing center.

Every person reading this, every single one, is the descendant of immigrants to these shores. Every. Single. One. Millions of them.

And yet you have the nerve to pitch a wall-eyed fit because somebody else has the absolute audacity to do what your ancestors did.

"Great Gramma and Granpa did it, but you can't do it!"

Pfagh.

LawDog

 

[pax]

If anyone wants to argue the the SMALL points it seems to me that you are just exercising your debating skills and you are ignoring what is obvious......we have economic and social problems in this country and if we don't tighten our belt we are in trouble.........imigration is as good a place as any to start.

It isn't a small issue. It is THE issue. You want to fiddle around with effects, but unless you understand the root cause you will do nothing but make the situation worse.

Most of the proposed solutions to the illegal alien situation are useless, because they haven't taken the cause into account.

Sonny, do you remember the Iron Curtain? Miles upon miles of 12-foot fences, coiled barbed wire, patrolling watchmen with vicious dogs, and ceaseless vigilance to keep the border closed. That border was one of the things that bankrupted the Soviet Union -- and it didn't work. Every year, people still managed to get through it in one direction and millions of rubles of black market goods slipped through in the other direction.

Fact is, it didn't work.

Why not?

pax

The average American family head will be forced to do twenty years' labor to pay taxes in his or her lifetime. -- James Bovard

 

[get_involved]

LawDog

What part of "illegal" don't you understand?

 

[pax]

Get_Involved,

Ah, it's the "illegal" part that bothers you. Ok. Why don't we just drop all the extra hoops, and pass a law making everyone who comes to these shores a legal immigrant?

pax

 

[LawDog]

we have economic and social problems in this country and if we don't tighten our belt we are in trouble.........imigration is as good a place as any to start.

No, a good place to start is welfare reform. Get rid of welfare payments, AFDC and every other Gov't-sponsered, tax-funded money siphon and you've just solved your economic, social and immigration problems.

LawDog

 

[get_involved]

Pax


"why don't we just pass making everyone who comes to these shores a "legal" immigrant."

You are right. Since half the world would like to live in the U.S., that would only add about 3 billion people to our country. Yeah, that would be real cozy. We don't need no stinking immigration laws.

 

[pax]

Ah, I see. So it is not the "illegal" part of the immigration that bothers you after all?

In that case -- what LawDog said. And don't bother with that particular red herring again.

pax

All languages carry in them a portrait of their users and the idioms of every language say over and over again, 'He is a stranger and therefore a barbarian.' ... It is the only joke that God ever repeats, because its humor never grows stale. -- Robert A. Heinlein

 

[LawDog]

What part of "illegal" don't you understand?

I understand that just because the government says that something is illegal, don't necessarily mean that it's so.

I understand that just because the government has lableled something as "illegal" doesn't mean that the government is right.

The governement doesn't like guns. If they make guns illegal tomorrow, should I kowtow to the governments' wishes? Should you?

There are simply scads of people here who can carry on for pages and weeks over how bad the War on Drugs is.

The government says that drugs are illegal. Does that make the government right? Whole bunch of people here can give compelling arguments that the gov't is most assuredly not correct in this.

More to the point, I have the right to voice my opinion on any subject that I wish. I wish to voice my opinion on "illegal" immigration, and I will jolly well do so. Now, if the gov't chooses to make my voicings "illegal" you can bet your left bippy that I will continue to do so, and the gov't can take a hike.

LawDog

 

[get_involved]

Pax

????

 

[pax]

Get_Involved,

LawDog produced a really beautiful, moving screed on the fact that America is a nation of immigrants.

You responded, "What part of "illegal" don't you understand?"

I understood you to be saying that it was the illegal status of the immigrants that was at issue here. That is what you told LawDog by your answer.

You refuted me and showed that your issue is not "illegal," after all. You don't want all those immigrants to be legal.

Since that is the case, it'd be nice if you had something to say about that wonderful post of LawDog's up above. "What part of 'illegal' don't you understand?" was just a red herring. You didn't mean that at all.

Anyway, I didn't really mean to get pulled into that side issue. Please forgive me. I'm more interested in hearing you explain why you think the immigrants are coming here. What do they get in America that they are not getting in their own countries?

pax

We do not know a truth without knowing its cause. -- Aristotle

 

[get_involved]

Pax

LOL! Half your posts are babble and it's obvious you just like to argue. WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

 

[Bruce626]

ILLEGAL ALIEN

Pax,

I'm more of a Shotgun formum poster, so not so politically eloquent as you, but I've just got to ask...

What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand? As in Illegal Alien.

Your arguments seem to be simply baiting the guys. Do you have some opinions of your own?

Illegal Aliens should not be here, and if found here should be sent back to where they came from. Any other questions about their existence here don't matter.

If the border they keep crossing is porous, it is our duty to protect it against alien invasion.

Like I said, I've got a pretty simply, un-eloquent view so I could be wrong.

 

[LawDog]

Her point is that you seem to be using "illegal immigrants" as a smokescreen to cover the fact that you apparently don't want any immigrants in the United States, legal, illegal or otherwise.

Does that clear it up for you?

LawDog

 

[Shootin' Buddy]

LOL! Half your posts are babble and it's obvious you just like to argue. WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

Her point is that you are trying to repair the mizzen mast on a sinking ship. Fixing the hole in the bow will be more productive.

 

[Ladybug]

You are right. Since half the world would like to live in the U.S., that would only add about 3 billion people to our country. Yeah, that would be real cozy. We don't need no stinking immigration laws.

This statement is so wonderfully ignorant, it really illustrates the point LawDog and Pax have been making. Your little disclaimer at the beginning about how you are not just racist doesn't really help your case when you come off so completely racist.

There's a statue in New York, facing all those unworthy non-Americans out there who just want to come here and steal "your" precious resources. There is an inscription on that statue that says:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to be free. "

 

[Sir Galahad]

Get involved:

Pax is a person of honor. Certainly not someone you should make personal attacks on, if I may say so.

 

[get_involved]

Bruce626

Finally, somebody who doesn't speak gibberish.

 

[Ladybug]

so by "gibberish" you mean anything that disagrees with your point of view??

 

[get_involved]

LawDog

I never said I don't want any. You REALLY don't understand what "illegal" means.

 

[faustulus]

Give me your tired, your poor
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore
Send these the homeless tempest-tost to me
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
--
What a bunch of poppycock.

 

[Bruce626]

I knew when I ventured out from the rather safe confines of Shotguns I was asking for trouble.

I just think that regardless of one's viewpoint on racism and diversity and being the melting pot of the world, one should also consider that...

... the person who breaks into my country should be treated just like the person who breaks into my home... I don't care about their motivations or justifications... they have just committed a crime and need to be treated accordingly.

If you don't like our laws, work within the system to change them. Do not advocate subverting them, for that is treason.

Harsh words, I know... but this is turning out to be a bitch of a harsh world lately.

 

[get_involved]

Ladybug

NOTHING I said was racist. And being against illegal immigration is not racist. That's a really childish statement. Grow up.

Racist is a favorite buzzword of people that support illegal immigration.

They teach it over at the University of Political Correctness.

Nobody's stupid enough to buy it anymore.

The "slogan" doesn't say come here illegally.

Look in the mirror.....you will see the racist.

Gibberish is meaningless or unintelligible talk or writing. Pax has plenty of that.

Have a nice night.

 

[LawDog]

You REALLY don't understand what "illegal" means.

Oh, goodness. And me being a Peace Officer and all.

Well, let me take my best Sunday hack at "Illegal".

"Illegal" means any thing or act contravening a law.

For example, when the Jim Crow laws were in effect, it would be illegal for a black man to drink at a water fountain reserved for white people.

Now, while "illegal" means to go against what is legal, or lawful, it makes no distinction as to the morality of the original law, as seen in the above example.

As a further example, in the early days of the United States it was legal to deny women the right to vote in elections. In other words, it was illegal for a woman to vote in an election. No matter if this law was fair, just or moral, any act allowing a woman to vote would have been termed illegal.

In addition, a law passed that violates the Constitution of the United States would be considered legal until such time as the law were petitioned in front of the Supreme Court, and such law declared UnConstitutional.

In simpler language, if Congress were to pass a law which violated the Constitution, it would be illegal to disobey that law until such time as it be found to violate the Constitution be nine people in black robes.

Such as the laws passed which violated numerous Constitutional rights of Japanese-Americans during World War 2.

To interfere in the confinement of a Japanese-American at that time would have been illegal.

Violating the law would be the moral thing to do, and it would be the right thing to do, but it would still be illegal.

So, how am I doing, Get_Involved?

Have I defined "Illegal" to your satisfaction?

LawDog

 

[Ladybug]

You are a racist because you somehow believe that you have more of a right to be here than someone else. The fact that you view "everyone wanting to come here" as a threat shows that.

As for the illegal Mexican cheap labor -- stop shopping for the cheapest crap you can find at Walmart, and you'll stop supporting the companies that hire the illegal aliens.

All everyone was trying to say is, the solution is not to build concentration camps for illegal Mexicans... if you don't want them paying less taxes than you, reform the tax code so you don't give all of your money to the government. If you don't want them living off welfare, get rid of welfare. If you don't want them to be "illegal" make them legal.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to be free. " - also does not say "give me your privileged few who can afford to fly here from some European nation, where our immigration quotas haven't been met."