Protestors march against more secure U.S. border

[bg]

Yes BG, so now what? This isn't a rhetorical question. I (we) need an answer!
***!?
Biker

I believe trying to get 11 million to go home wherever that
may be will be impossible. However there are other ways
to go about this. First the $1000 fine the Senate proposes
is too low. The fine should be $2500. Any social benefits
people here illegally get would be suspended. This includes
social security, medical, welfare, housing, etc. Any education
grants, monies, discounts, state and federal grants should
be suspended, and if not suspended then lowered so those
here illegally must pay more out of their pockets that
the taxpayer.

An additional tax should be placed on those identified
as here illegally and who file income tax to help offset
the cost of keeping illegals incarcerated, to help defer
the cost of medical needs and other costs assc with
illegal immigrants. Assets, savings, properties including
real estate and business should be attached and
defaulted to the state and federal government should
these who are here illegally fail to start the immigration
process within a 90 day time period.

Children of illegals born here in the U.S should not get
the same benefits as those born here legally, until their
own parent/parents start and continue the process of
either becoming a citizen, a legal non-citizen, or legal
guest worker.

A tax should be placed on any monies sent out of the
U.S to home countries. If they don't want to help pay
the way here in the U.S through taxes, then they should
pay the way through any monies sent abroad.

Those who come here illegally and bring parents who
are ill, elderly, etc should not be able to obtain any
medical benefits or hospice except that which requires
a visit to the emer ward. If the case involves placing
a senior or ill person here illegally in a care facility or
hospital, then 25% of the family's income should be
attached before taxes to help with the cost of that
patient.

Business's that hire and or harbor illegals should be
penalized via fines and increased cost of obtaining
a business license, as well as pay an increased
business income tax, and should have any tax
returns assessed at 35% in help defray the cost
of maintaining illegals who are ill and here in hospitals,
locked up, burial costs etc.

Those who are serving in the military in a combat
zone and whose parents and themselves here illegally
should be first in line for quick processing and be exempt
from any fines, etc. If they are willing to fight for the U.S
then they should be allowed leeway..

When it comes to illegal criminals a chip should be placed
internally or a certain tracking devise placed onto them
once arrested. I don't care if it's a chip, a large tattoo,
or whatever. This way if released and they decide to
come back to the U.S they are tracked, arrested and
used to as labor to repair roads, rebuild areas hit by
storms etc. I feel no prisoner should go without a hard
labor clause added to their sentence. Any person here
illegally and who does a criminal action, should also
have an additional 7 yrs added to their sentence if
convicted of a certain class felony. If it's a crime involving
children hurt of killed or any other serious crime,
then the death penalty should be on the table and
also streamlined so one convicted of the capitol crime
doesn't stay on DR for yrs upon yrs. That's one
reason why DNA is avail now.

Many of the things I've come up with, you folks will drill
holes through. Some make no sense at all to many. I
don't have the answers to this monster, but I'm open
to any suggestions save for giving them amnesty..Forget
that.

bg

 

[carlrodd]

Becuase they have a worthy cause, and you have, well, the minutemen.

(I was SO tempted to say the waitaminute men...)

And because going up against half a million with a few dozen, a few thousand or a few tens of thousands is just a bad idea. -jammer six

jammer six, apparently you missed the intent of the post. i was not fishing for debate about who is right and who is wrong. if you take fulfillment from selling out your countrymen(and make no mistake, your apparent stance on the issue places you firmly in that camp) then we don't really have anything to talk about. when i asked why 'we' cannot do the same thing?...i.e. what is preventing us from rallying and marching as well, the implied audience was those here that actually value the concept of fairly exclusive citizenship....citizenship that means a little something.

 

[bowfin]

jlseagull,

Here it is, since you injected Jesus Christ and Christianity into the mix:

(Romans, Chapter 13)

vs1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
vs2 Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
vs3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same;

Doesn't leave much wriggle room if you are an illegal, or a Bishop siding with them, does it?

 

[ArmedBear]

Fine employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants $100,000 per worker. Second time they're caught, $100,000 plus 6 mo's in the pokey.

Conduct regular "raids" like the INS used to some years back.

Economic incentive to hire illegal alients disappears.

Deny any social services to those here illegally. Require insurance, credit card, or proof of legal residence when someone comes to the ER, with safeguards to preserve life in true emergencies.

Problem solved.

 

[Jammer Six]

citizenship that means a little something.

An "exclusive" citizenship doesn't mean anything when it is founded in hypocrisy.

Claiming that the right to bear arms is an inalienable, God-given right while denying those same rights is hyprocrisy in the extreme.

The citizenship either stands for a set of ideals, or it doesn't.

The United States does, the majority of this insignificant gunboard doesn't.

 

[Biker]

Jammer Six...

The Preamble begins with "We the People of the United States..."
I don't see illegal aliens from Mexico included in there, do you?
Biker

 

[Ira Aten]

Quote from JL Seagull: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You are reading from a rebel group trying to take advantage of World War I to drive their cause. I bet you can find all sorts of rebel groups who dreamt of big plans in the open stages of WWI or WWII.

JL Seagull.

No sir, you are totally wrong.

I was simply supplying some internet web links to Biker, one of which was the University of Texas at Austin, the other from one of the groups itself, since Biker did not want to have to "dig" for more information.

Had you read my original post, you will find any statements I make regarding this subject are based either upon documents within the Texas State Library Archives, or garnered from information obtained through hours of research from recognized legitimate authors such as W.W. Sterling, Walter P. Webb, and other authors recognized worldwide as experts on the subject of the Texas Border wars.

I find it helps me avoid making rash, ignorence-based knee-jerk reactionary statements.

 

[engineer151515]

Deny any social services to those here illegally. ...........

Problem solved

The "other" political party will claim you are starving children.

It's been claimed before to great political effect.

 

[Glock Glockler]

Claiming that the right to bear arms is an inalienable, God-given right while denying those same rights is hyprocrisy in the extreme

Who is trynig to deny Mexicans or illegals the right to bear arms? Illegal aliens do not, however, have the right to enter or be in the US. God has nothing to do with this one, it is purely a civic matter.

Uh. You have repeatedly said you read my posts, yet you obviously haven't.

The discussion was what to do with existing illiegals, Cuda wanted all illegals on death row executed immediately, and Biker agreed. Call that good 'ol American values if you want, but sounds more like China to me

I never made the case that exocuting illegals was good policy, I would agree that to do so is wrong, but I had posted regarding deporting illegals and that was what you had responded to.

The citizenship either stands for a set of ideals, or it doesn't

Is one of those ideals that we are a nation of laws as opposed to a nation of mobs? Yeah, Mexico seems to be a mob run nation, I am so glad that it is being imported here. All those "demonstrators" held up traffic and ruined quite a bit for many, the polite and legal thing to do would be to get a permit to demonstrate on a designated day, if you plan on doing it on public property.

 

[jlseagull]

Had you read my original post, you will find any statements I make regarding this subject are based either upon documents within the Texas State Library Archives, or garnered from information obtained through hours of research from recognized legitimate authors such as W.W. Sterling, Walter P. Webb, and other authors recognized worldwide as experts on the subject of the Texas Border wars.

I did read your posts. And you are detailing plans by rebel groups outsted from power to take advantage of the opening stages of WWI and the string of early 1900s revolutions in Northern Mexico in order to try and gain or regain power. To think that these plans are still useful or even relevant in modern times is beyond ludicrous. The political landscapes are not the same on either side of the border.

But I'm pretty sure chicken little didn't care if the acorn was that hit him on the head was from 1915. It doesn't matter how outdated the info is, the sky is still falling in his eyes (and those who listen to him).

 

[AndyC]

What concerns me is that there are people today who seem to support the principles of that plan, whether it's ancient or not.

 

[carlrodd]

An "exclusive" citizenship doesn't mean anything when it is founded in hypocrisy.

oblique, confusing statement. exactly what hypocrisy are you referring to?

Claiming that the right to bear arms is an inalienable, God-given right while denying those same rights is hyprocrisy in the extreme.

the right to bear arms is NOT inalienable...it is a right, as far as americans are concerned, that is exclusive the constitution of the united states, and in this country applies to american citizens.

The citizenship either stands for a set of ideals, or it doesn't.

and has been mentioned, it does. one of those ideals is that not just anybody can walk across the border and be granted citizenship. it is the right of our nation to be exclusive in determining who can and cannot, and what criteria must be met to do so.. the sort of citizenship you are advocating is what is lacking in ideals. by inviting everybody, you are very much stripping away any ideals or standards that we previously set.

The United States does, the majority of this insignificant gunboard doesn't.

another oblique, knee-jerk, emotional statement, that lends no credibility to your argument....quite the opposite. you'll be hugging the ankles of the average sort of person that frequents this site when the government's short-sighted plans come to fruition wherever your neck of the woods is. it's only a matter of time.

 

[jlseagull]

What concerns me is that there are people today who seem to support the principles of that plan, whether it's ancient or not.

And there are Indians that still believe the white man has taken their land and support taking it back as well. The world is full of people who look to the past and not the future, but they are oddly almost always the people too lazy to do anything about it.

 

[AndyC]

The Indians aren't illegal aliens, but even if they were, I haven't seen many of them demonstrating in their thousands wearing T-shirts that show their support for the principles of killing all white males over 16.

 

[Jammer Six]

the right to bear arms is NOT inalienable...it is a right, as far as americans are concerned, that is exclusive the constitution of the united states, and in this country applies to american citizens.

I see. I'm beginning to understand your point.

So the right to keep and bear arms does, in fact, come from the federal government of the United States?

 

[Biker]

No Jammer, Americans have fought and died for two hundred years to guarantee these rights to Americans - *not* to people here in violation of our laws.
Is it that hard to understand?
Biker

 

[scottgun]

The United States of America is the only country on this planet to recognize a citizen's God given right to keep and bear arms.

 

[bg]

Spanish media was behind the large turnout. Mainstream
media once again dropped the ball..>
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060328...rVQuk0A;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Telemundo Chicago, a Spanish-language TV station, began its coverage blitz 1 1/2 weeks before a recent rally, though there was no urging that viewers attend, said news director Esteban Creste.

"We just told them what was going on," Creste said."While we were not trying to mobilize people, it might have prompted people to decide to go there."

Please...

 

[longeyes]

I think it is important for everybody to realize that the illegals, by disregarding our laws and our borders, are recreating in this country what they claim they are fleeing in their own.

There is no practical reason that on the surface, Mexico is so much poorer than the United States. Obviously, the people are willing to work long and hard, unlike Frenchmen. They have plenty of oil, and plenty of fertile ground, with a longer growing season than even most of the U.S. They have no worrisome neighbors that they have to spend large amounts of their budget on defense. They are not bogged down with terrorists, largescale ethic strife, or religious discord. The people of Mexico have a democratic government and a capitalistic society, same as almost every wealthy country

So what is the problem? Lawlessness and corruption. A Democratic government is not very good once it is sold to the highest bidder. A capitalistic type economy is of no use when bribes are the driving force, not a free market. Add on a layer of corrupt police and military forces, and this paradise becomes a Hell even worse than North Korea, because at least in North Korea, everyone suffers, there is no Drug lord speeding down the street in his Escalade to his seaside villa, rubbing it in your face that he got ahead by ignoring the laws.

So how are many Mexicans hoping to solve this problem? Cross the borders illegally. Pay good money to someone for fake documents, hire a Coyote to get them across illegally, maybe mule some drugs for him also so he takes something off the bill. Use a phony work record to get a loan to buy a car, get insurance so you can register it, then cancel the insurance, since you can't use it anyhow. If you hit someone, take off on foot. Bribe the courthouse clerk to get a driver's license. Go along with whoever hires you in breaking any workplace laws and maybe get paid in cash, so they don't have to pay taxes. Hide for him when the INS shows up, so neither of you get into trouble. In short, come to the U.S and promulgate the same sort of things that you claim drove you away from Mexico and here in the first place. Then go home around Christmas, with a wad of cash from your El Norte job, and rub it in the face of everybody around, showing them you got ahead by ignoring the law. Wait a minute, where did we see that before?

+1 Excellent post

And it underscores the importance of that oh so taboo subject: CULTURE.

 

[Ira Aten]

Quote from Seagull "To think that these plans are still useful or even relevant in modern times is beyond ludicrous"

 

[Kodiaz]

Biker Carlrod Longeyes great posts


We'll soon see which of our so called "representatives" serve the people or serve the corporations when they vote on amnesty.

This is the same as a gun grab they are showing that the government no longer serves the people. They are showing that the government no longer represents the people.

 

[Ira Aten]

Quote

 

[Ira Aten]

Quote from Seagull "To think that these plans are still useful or even relevant in modern times is beyond ludicrous"

Mr. Seagull. I never insinuated the plan was useful. I stated the act of wearing the Tee Shirts and carrying banners advocating the overthrow of our government (which the ones wearing the shirts were doing) and calling for the murder of all American males over sixteen years of age (which the plan details) would get most American citizens thrown in jail, if they were at a gun show advocating such a plot.

You have gone from arguing that the plan was being promoted by only a small group of protestors, to your current position, that the plan is not useful enough to be taken seriously.

The fact remains sir, that those wearing the "Plan" shirts, are advocating the overthrow of our government, and the murder of all males over the age of sixteen in North America.

My statements were not in any way "ludicrous", they are merely factual.

Often, truth is hard to deal with when we do not wish to face it. It is much simpler to attempt to deride the bearer of the message. However, I would point out to you, when a threat is made (even by an incompetent and ignorant group of individuals) it is best to be prepared and informed.

So I thought it beneficial to bring it to the attention of those who may wish to be aware of the truth. Ignoring it is your perogative. Biker was merely interested in facts.

 

[longeyes]

The Big Boys have been trying to stifle the voices on the right that would counteract all this.
Other than a steam locamotive from the 1930s, what, exactly, is a "Big Boy"?

Quote:
What it will take is for someone to arise to lay out the problem with visceral impact. Someone, perhaps, who can make Americans understand their country's being stolen from them, that, more concretely, they may lose their home to confiscatory taxation, their children's education and hopes of good employment, etc.

That might work if it were, say, true...

Quote:
We are on the verge of big things happening.

Yes, we are. De facto citizenship is about to be recognized, and our borders are finally about to be opened.

By Big Boys I mean Mainstream Media. You can take "big" as sarcasm, boys as a literal description.

The American people know in their gut where all of this is going. They recognize that what they saw over the weekend is fueled by adolescent fantasies that promise considerable social friction in the times ahead. When and if the macho men in the illegal immigrant community make the grave error of becoming overt miscreants they will find themselves with a lot more than they can handle.

De facto citizenship is not going to be recognized. What IS happening is that our political leadership is having, without their knowing it, a "come to Jesus" moment. If they choose to de-legitimize themselves that will be their choice. If they wish to represent illegal aliens rather than taxpaying citizens that too will be duly noted. Americans are slow to anger but when they do, God help the perps.

There will be someone out there who will make clear to Americans that whatever the bill is called that eventually comes out of Congress it will enforce neither border security nor believable assimilation. The end result of that would be to hand an alien "mob" de facto control of our polity through citizenship and the vote. People will not permit that to happen to their children. At that point we will have a choice between losing this Republic and our home-grown El Caudillo.

 

[garyk/nm]

OK, I got lazy and skipped ahead a few pages; if some of this is previously-covered ground, my apologies.
real_name a hearty congratulations on getting your Oath letter. In reading your posts, I can say that I am glad that you chose this country to live in. Welcome aboard!
Crazy idea time: want to send a message to Fedgov? Everyone of you who has withholding taken from your paycheck, go tomorrow to your HR or payroll office and request a new W-4. Change your withholding to Married 15. This should result in little to no monies withheld. How long do you think it will take the Feds to notice that they have no money coming in? Think they'll get the message?