breakingcontact
Member
I've been doing the M1A/FAL debate and came across the PTR 91.
PTR 91- Opinions? Reviews?
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I have a new PTR91F. I also have an AR10 and M1a. It seems to me that the quality and utility of the PTR is on par with the other two. Its handling is an acquired taste, and it's no featherweight. I scoped mine and it is an impressive rifle to me. These pics dont do it justice
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=746882
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=746882
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breakingcontact
Member
Thanks for the pictures. The one with them all side by side helps a lot.
I only have limited shooting exposure to the 91 but in general I am not a fan. It's a brute of a gun, big and heavy, questionable ergos, kicks quite a bit when shot and really etches/dents the ejected cases - assuming you can find them since they fly a very long way from the shooter. The latter only really relevant if you plan to reload.
On the other side, I am a big fan of the roller-lock design (I shoot an MP5 clone but in 9mm it doesn't have the downsides that it does in .308), it's a reliable beast and has some great history as well as access to spares that few other rifles have.
I'd raise my budget even if it requires waiting some for a modern FNAR, a DPMS or (if you really want to destroy your budget) a SCAR heavy.
B
On the other side, I am a big fan of the roller-lock design (I shoot an MP5 clone but in 9mm it doesn't have the downsides that it does in .308), it's a reliable beast and has some great history as well as access to spares that few other rifles have.
I'd raise my budget even if it requires waiting some for a modern FNAR, a DPMS or (if you really want to destroy your budget) a SCAR heavy.
B
mr.trooper
Member
From my experience shooting a buddies PTR91 several times ... They are heavy, they kick, they mangle brass and throw it a country mile.
but it was always reliable, and mags are very cheap. Spare parts are also plentiful. If I were looking to buy a battle rifle and stockpile a hoard of mags, parts, and ammo, the PRT would be the only practical choice IMO.
but it was always reliable, and mags are very cheap. Spare parts are also plentiful. If I were looking to buy a battle rifle and stockpile a hoard of mags, parts, and ammo, the PRT would be the only practical choice IMO.
breakingcontact
Member
Regarding cost, thats mostly why im interested in these. Also considering coverted Saiga in 308. Relatively affordable and cheap mags. Otherwise if I bump it up a bit I could be into an FAL or M1A. Not interested in AR in 308. SCAR is certainly a beast but I wont be spending that much.
I fired 40 rounds through my PTR 91 yesterday dialing in a scope. Never could get it to do as well as my AR10 with same scope and same ammo and my shoulder is too sore today to try again. I think it has more to do with the trigger being crappy than the actual accuracy potential of the rifle. That plus I'm flinching after the fifth shot. Going to try again tomorrow. Will give it 20 more shots then if it still won't match the AR then I'm pulling the scope and put the PTR back in the rack.
breakingcontact
Member
Interesting. I didnt figure they would recoil so much but im sure it is more than an AR10 due to not having that buffer.
My PTR91F and my MP10 both shoot 1.5 MOA for me and I don't do much for load development. First shot hit probability for me is virtually the same for either rifle. Neither one scatters the first shot. The MP10 is roughly a pound lighter and better balanced. The MP10 setup is better in terms of eye relief when scoped. You could probly shoot multiple shots into smaller groups with the MP10 just due to recoil and comfort. But you get that PTR bagged up and she will hit what you are aiming at and it is reliable.
I love my PTR-91 Classic. I don't mind the recoil too much and I put a brass catcher on it to keep track of the brass. I can't say that it is or is not accurate as I tend to shoot with it around 50 yards. Not far I realize, but that's where I shoot rifles. Maybe I'll move out to the 100 yard line in a month or so.
js8588
Member
If recoil is a concern, I recommend the Super Vepr 308. I have one. Surprisingly light recoil, and it's a 2 MOA rifle for me with open sights. I'll be scoping it and making it my DMR later this year. Mags aren't cheap but it's reliable and accurate. I am getting a PTR 91F with this year's tax return (in a month or so) but will be leaving it unscoped and use it for a SHTF MBR should I need 20 rounds of rock n roll as far as the pretty spectacularly designed irons will take me. Cheap mags and maybe as reliable as my Vepr if not as accurate or comfortable.
My PTR 91 is my favorite rifle
The gods smiled on me when I bought mine years ago. It was $700 and got lost in shipping from JLD to the dealer so they shipped another - s/n a00<50. This was early on when Jose Luis Diaz first started production and supposedly was air gauging barrels personally. This one shoots better than I do with the trigger done by Bill Springfield. I love the flexibility of pushing a few pins to reconfigure it in minutes. Tool-less teardown anywhere. Easy to swap straight, folder, HK A3, and cheek weld stocks for the Fero Z24 or other scope. Easy to swap optics w/ many mount choices. Mags are 10, 20, 30 and rotary 50. Forend straight plastic - 2 styles, wood or rails with a push of a pin. 2 types of HK pods or Harris under rails. There's a reason Smith Vortex is the military choice - flash is a teardrop about the size of a pea. I think my recoil mellowed with break-in and the reason I originally bought it was experience w/ an HK in Miami years before where I considered the recoil to be just a gentle push. I love mine because I have other 308's that without extra padding, make my shoulder shades of green to yellow the next day. A port buffer keeps the brass nearby and helps the condition. It is heavy depending on config so have a good pad on the 3-point strap or use the carry handle. RTG is excellent for parts and kit. Did I mention I love this gun? Contact me if I can be of help. Bob
The gods smiled on me when I bought mine years ago. It was $700 and got lost in shipping from JLD to the dealer so they shipped another - s/n a00<50. This was early on when Jose Luis Diaz first started production and supposedly was air gauging barrels personally. This one shoots better than I do with the trigger done by Bill Springfield. I love the flexibility of pushing a few pins to reconfigure it in minutes. Tool-less teardown anywhere. Easy to swap straight, folder, HK A3, and cheek weld stocks for the Fero Z24 or other scope. Easy to swap optics w/ many mount choices. Mags are 10, 20, 30 and rotary 50. Forend straight plastic - 2 styles, wood or rails with a push of a pin. 2 types of HK pods or Harris under rails. There's a reason Smith Vortex is the military choice - flash is a teardrop about the size of a pea. I think my recoil mellowed with break-in and the reason I originally bought it was experience w/ an HK in Miami years before where I considered the recoil to be just a gentle push. I love mine because I have other 308's that without extra padding, make my shoulder shades of green to yellow the next day. A port buffer keeps the brass nearby and helps the condition. It is heavy depending on config so have a good pad on the 3-point strap or use the carry handle. RTG is excellent for parts and kit. Did I mention I love this gun? Contact me if I can be of help. Bob
bmwguy
Member
they are heavy rifles and the weight distribtion(ergo) not the best. its front heavy.
I had a original HK 91. Sold it and never regret it.
there are better options out there for 308. AR-10 comes to mind if you want to scope it. If you are a tradtionalist, a M1a would be a good option.
If you have the cash. The SCAR 17 is another option.
I had a original HK 91. Sold it and never regret it.
there are better options out there for 308. AR-10 comes to mind if you want to scope it. If you are a tradtionalist, a M1a would be a good option.
If you have the cash. The SCAR 17 is another option.
js8588
Member
A lot of people claim issues with the ergos. For me, the PTR 91F balances perfectly and I have no problem flipping the safety off while my finger is on the trigger. My 5'5, 105lb girlfriend could almost manage it. Unless you're built like her, you're g2g.
AlexanderA
Member
I bought both a PTR91 and a DSA FAL, new, around the beginning of this year. Of the two, the FAL is hands down the better design. The advantage of the PTR is that it's considerably cheaper. It's a brute of a gun while the FAL has an air of elegance about it.
I appreciated my HK91 for a long time. I had no truck with "poodle shooters," we all knew that real men used .308. Wondered what all the ruckus was about at one early three gun competition when the .300 'whisper" AR15's were disallowed. Good riddance.
Then, I was young, knew all I needed to know about guns because we read and talked about it among ourselves, and had heard all we needed to know about the M16.
I had that HK for 18 years hunting with it, and also served in the Reserves, being trained on the M16, A1, and A2, among others. I sold the HK because the comparison, even subconsciously, began to be obvious. The .30 battle rifles as a class are ALL heavy, bulky, and have a lot of kick.
Once I retired from the Reserves, soak time. Time on the internet. Time researching the M16. Like Waco, it wasn't all that it was said to be. When you keep searching for the facts, they will come out.
.30 cal battle rifles have a place yet today, but not in the hands of the bulk of soldiers. They have issues in comparison, HK, M1, FNFAL, whatever. That is why they are all quickly approaching the date where they are C&R's - they went out of service decades ago because they don't do the job as well as the intermediate MSR's.
It's why the M16 holds the top places in Service Rifle competition. And many cost half as the gunsmithing isn't nearly as complicated.
For the soldier, I found I could go all day in full battle rattle and the M16 wasn't the noticeable part. Hunting light with the HK, it was the focus of the work. A heavy gun with significant recoil does affect us more than we'd like to admit.
I sold the HK, and eventually built my own AR. I can't say I'm a fan of 5.56, I chose an alternate cartridge with 50% more downrange power. But, it's still an AR, and because of that, it has superior ergonomics.
If a .308 level rifle is what is wanted, then the AR10 would be the better choice all around. And one maker has recently come out with a "light" version that weighs another pound less than the conventional -10's. There are other choices that will be more user friendly than the PTR's.
Then, I was young, knew all I needed to know about guns because we read and talked about it among ourselves, and had heard all we needed to know about the M16.
I had that HK for 18 years hunting with it, and also served in the Reserves, being trained on the M16, A1, and A2, among others. I sold the HK because the comparison, even subconsciously, began to be obvious. The .30 battle rifles as a class are ALL heavy, bulky, and have a lot of kick.
Once I retired from the Reserves, soak time. Time on the internet. Time researching the M16. Like Waco, it wasn't all that it was said to be. When you keep searching for the facts, they will come out.
.30 cal battle rifles have a place yet today, but not in the hands of the bulk of soldiers. They have issues in comparison, HK, M1, FNFAL, whatever. That is why they are all quickly approaching the date where they are C&R's - they went out of service decades ago because they don't do the job as well as the intermediate MSR's.
It's why the M16 holds the top places in Service Rifle competition. And many cost half as the gunsmithing isn't nearly as complicated.
For the soldier, I found I could go all day in full battle rattle and the M16 wasn't the noticeable part. Hunting light with the HK, it was the focus of the work. A heavy gun with significant recoil does affect us more than we'd like to admit.
I sold the HK, and eventually built my own AR. I can't say I'm a fan of 5.56, I chose an alternate cartridge with 50% more downrange power. But, it's still an AR, and because of that, it has superior ergonomics.
If a .308 level rifle is what is wanted, then the AR10 would be the better choice all around. And one maker has recently come out with a "light" version that weighs another pound less than the conventional -10's. There are other choices that will be more user friendly than the PTR's.
PTR is just as good as AR10 to me for intended purpose, for practical use. The PTR execution of the design is second to none as far as I can tell. When I put my PTR next to my AR10 you get the impression that the PTR is a better rifle. This is for several reasons involving design, robustness of parts. Just about every part on the PTR is more robust than the AR, including extractor, bolt, forend, receiver, buttstock.
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