Q bout law enforcement
- Thread starter 8mman
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LeonCarr
Member
Many departments issue the Sig. Sig is probably the second most used gun in law enforcement.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
CombatArmsUSAF
Member
My department is carrying beretta 96D.
I've found that the three most common guns for police dept are Beretta,Glock, and Sig
I've found that the three most common guns for police dept are Beretta,Glock, and Sig
U
Universal
Guest
I have no official proof but I do not think CZ is used much in Europe or elsewhere in the world. SIG, H&K and GLOCKS are the most used sidearms in most European countries, just like they are in the U.S. That being said, I have heard very good things about the CZs.
I know that countries like Germany uses H&Ks, SIGs and GLOCKs. Great Britian uses GLOCKS, Denmark uses H&Ks, Finland uses GLOCKS and so on. I do think at least one or two eastern European countries use the CZs. I am not sure which.
I know that countries like Germany uses H&Ks, SIGs and GLOCKs. Great Britian uses GLOCKS, Denmark uses H&Ks, Finland uses GLOCKS and so on. I do think at least one or two eastern European countries use the CZs. I am not sure which.
Old Dog
Member
And as one manufacturer is proud to point out ... the Tacoma PD issues Kimber TLE 1911s ...
Well, to disagree, and digress off topic, the CZ is officially issued to armies, national police, national security agencies and other law enforcement entities in ONLY about 60 countries; just a tad few more than SIGs and Glocks. Once you get out of the U.S. (or Germany and Austria), you're simply not going to see all the SIGs and Glocks you see in LE holsters here. In fact, in more than a few Western European countries, you'll see such silly things as 7.65mm (.32 ACP) Berettas worn by street cops in funny little white fabric holsters ...
Well, to disagree, and digress off topic, the CZ is officially issued to armies, national police, national security agencies and other law enforcement entities in ONLY about 60 countries; just a tad few more than SIGs and Glocks. Once you get out of the U.S. (or Germany and Austria), you're simply not going to see all the SIGs and Glocks you see in LE holsters here. In fact, in more than a few Western European countries, you'll see such silly things as 7.65mm (.32 ACP) Berettas worn by street cops in funny little white fabric holsters ...
Ash
Member
"CZ 75 B is used by more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world."
That is directly off the CZ website.
"In the USA, GLOCK pistols are in use in 65 % of law enforcement agencies."
This is directly from the Glock website.
Statistically, CZ's are indeed used more throughout the world, while Glock commands the US market. CZ is very popular in the Middle East, particularly in Israel. It is also common in Africa and Asia. I can't vouche for South America and they certainly are not king in the US, but we must guard against basing our ideas about what is used here versus the rest of the world. One might assume that Ford is the most common truck in the world.
Ash
That is directly off the CZ website.
"In the USA, GLOCK pistols are in use in 65 % of law enforcement agencies."
This is directly from the Glock website.
Statistically, CZ's are indeed used more throughout the world, while Glock commands the US market. CZ is very popular in the Middle East, particularly in Israel. It is also common in Africa and Asia. I can't vouche for South America and they certainly are not king in the US, but we must guard against basing our ideas about what is used here versus the rest of the world. One might assume that Ford is the most common truck in the world.
Ash
Ash
Member
South Africa was the first country to issue the CZ-75 as a standard issue pistol (back in the late 1970s). Turkey issues them, and now produces their own clone and lest you poo-poo Turkey, theirs is the second largest Nato army. As to the website claims, those are made in the US and are subject to "Truth in Advertising" laws. While concepts like "tastes best" or "smoothest" are subjective, the CZ claim is specific and is governed as such. When Ford claims to be the best selling trucks while Chevy claims most dependible and longest lasting, those are based on statistical facts.
Ash
Ash
tlhelmer
Member
Indiana State Police carry the Beretta 96-G, but we are switching to the Glock 22 at the end of 2005 beginning of 2006.
SouthpawShootr
Member
About 3-4 years ago Chesapeake police (400+)went from Beretta 92 9mms to USPc .40s. Supposedly, they looked over the Glock, but went with the H&K. Don't know why. Probably liked the external safety. The Chesapeake Sheriff's Office issued Glock 17s & 19s. Just about everybody else (Va Beach, Portsmouth, and now Norfolk) in the area has gone with Glock (only one I don't know about is the City of Suffolk, VA - they used to issue Beretta 92s, but it's been a while since I've talked to one of their officers).
ARGarrison
Member
tlhemer, say it isn't so. 
Archie
Member
Fashion trends....
Agencies issue guns based on "perception" and "price".
Glocks were plentiful in agencies for about 10 - 15 years because they were low cost and honestly, pretty good value.
However, the trend seems to be shifting. U. S. Customs and Border Protection has previously issued S&W autos (9x19), Berettas (.40 S&W) and Glock 17s and some H&Ks. They just announced a contract for both SIG and H&K pistols. Some in 9x19 and some in .40 S&W.
Fifty years ago, the only law enforcement types who carried any sort of autopistol were those who could buy and carry their own pistol. Everyone else carried a revolver.
Lawmen in general aren't any better at defending themselves these days; they just have more shots to fire. Like I said, fashion trends.
Agencies issue guns based on "perception" and "price".
Glocks were plentiful in agencies for about 10 - 15 years because they were low cost and honestly, pretty good value.
However, the trend seems to be shifting. U. S. Customs and Border Protection has previously issued S&W autos (9x19), Berettas (.40 S&W) and Glock 17s and some H&Ks. They just announced a contract for both SIG and H&K pistols. Some in 9x19 and some in .40 S&W.
Fifty years ago, the only law enforcement types who carried any sort of autopistol were those who could buy and carry their own pistol. Everyone else carried a revolver.
Lawmen in general aren't any better at defending themselves these days; they just have more shots to fire. Like I said, fashion trends.
Tom Servo
Member
Actually, last time I was in Denmark, it seemed about 50/50 Sig & HK. Looks like officers have some discretion, though it's been a few years. One officer was carrying a P225, and we had a nice discussion about it. He was amazed at the sheer stupidity of American gun regulation.
You'll see alot of CZs and quite a few 1911s in Israel.
You'll see alot of CZs and quite a few 1911s in Israel.
U
Universal
Guest
I am from Denmark and I know for a fact that the national police switched from the Walther PPK 7.65 caliber in the late 90s to the H&K USP Compact 9mm. The police just south of the border in Germany use the SIG 225. I could be wrong but I am 99% sure that no Danish officer carries a SIG. Also, the gun laws in Denmark are so strict that I honestly would never expect any Dane to say anything about American gun laws being silly or anything. In Denmark you can not have a pistol in your house, it must be stored at a gun club. Also there are all kinds of limits on makes and models. All police equipment must be standard due to the fact that it is one national police force. Every cop I have spoken to in western Europe has carried either SIGs, H&Ks or GLOCKs.
I am not an expert by any means but I have spoken and worked with several European police officers and angencies when I was a police officer here in the U.S. and that is what I am basing my information on.
Sorry that I took this thread off topic.
I am not an expert by any means but I have spoken and worked with several European police officers and angencies when I was a police officer here in the U.S. and that is what I am basing my information on.
Sorry that I took this thread off topic.
Northslope Nimrod
Member
One local department is talking about switching to Kimber! Local sherriff's office uses HK.
Walt Sherrill
Member
CZs - more than...
I'm a big CZ fan -- I have several -- but I will tell you that you've got to take the CZ website claim with a grain of salt... Their claim that the CZ is the "most widely used" service pistol could be true, but they're NOT TALKING ABOUT TOTAL NUMBERS, they're talking about how many different organizations use them. 10 guns each sold to 1000 small police departments is a lot less sold than the Berettas used by the US Army, alone.
Its just a few here, a few there, and never in large numbers.
I'd be willing to bet the total number of CZs issued to militaries and police departments since the CZ-75 was created and sold is a small fraction of total Glocks and Sigs issued to the same organizations in the last 7-8 years, alone.
Can you name a single police department (large or small) in the US that uses CZs as their main issue weapon? Only a few now make them optional, for personal or off-duty use.
Can you name a single military except Poland, that uses them? Turkey did for a while, but are now producing their own CZ-like guns (under license from Tanfoglio, it appears). They probably still have CZ in inventory, but those will be phased out. South Africa's police used them for a long time, but those are being replaced, too. Vektor?
And then there are Berettas. The US Army probably uses more Berettas than CZs has sold to ALL THE OTHER MILITARY UNITS in the world!
On the CZ forum we've got a listing of who uses what. Its a few years old, now, but nothing has changed much, as best I can tell. The Czech National Police use CZs. The Polish Army issues them. That's about it for BIG users. The rest are small units and departments spread widely around the world.
Nothing CZ said on their website is untrue, but it sure could be considered misleading. If you disagree, cite some numbers to make your case. Sadly, I don't think you'll be able to.
Do I think they're great guns? You bet. One of the best going, for any price. But let's not mistakenly misrepresent the truth or perpetuate some half truths put out by a marketing wizard.
And
Please note: "used by more" is not the same as "more are used by."
I'm a big CZ fan -- I have several -- but I will tell you that you've got to take the CZ website claim with a grain of salt... Their claim that the CZ is the "most widely used" service pistol could be true, but they're NOT TALKING ABOUT TOTAL NUMBERS, they're talking about how many different organizations use them. 10 guns each sold to 1000 small police departments is a lot less sold than the Berettas used by the US Army, alone.
Its just a few here, a few there, and never in large numbers.
I'd be willing to bet the total number of CZs issued to militaries and police departments since the CZ-75 was created and sold is a small fraction of total Glocks and Sigs issued to the same organizations in the last 7-8 years, alone.
Can you name a single police department (large or small) in the US that uses CZs as their main issue weapon? Only a few now make them optional, for personal or off-duty use.
Can you name a single military except Poland, that uses them? Turkey did for a while, but are now producing their own CZ-like guns (under license from Tanfoglio, it appears). They probably still have CZ in inventory, but those will be phased out. South Africa's police used them for a long time, but those are being replaced, too. Vektor?
And then there are Berettas. The US Army probably uses more Berettas than CZs has sold to ALL THE OTHER MILITARY UNITS in the world!
On the CZ forum we've got a listing of who uses what. Its a few years old, now, but nothing has changed much, as best I can tell. The Czech National Police use CZs. The Polish Army issues them. That's about it for BIG users. The rest are small units and departments spread widely around the world.
Nothing CZ said on their website is untrue, but it sure could be considered misleading. If you disagree, cite some numbers to make your case. Sadly, I don't think you'll be able to.
Do I think they're great guns? You bet. One of the best going, for any price. But let's not mistakenly misrepresent the truth or perpetuate some half truths put out by a marketing wizard.
ARGarrison
Member
Indiana Conservation Officers carried Ruger GP-100s during the eighties. They switched to Sig P220s in the early ninties and last year (04) to the Sig P220 ST (stainless).
Ash
Member
Yeow, Walt. Guess I won't be sitting down much after that ripping.
Ash
Ash
BluesBear
member
I'd be interested in learning more about departments that formerly issued Glocks but have since switched to something else.
Such as what they carried before.
What they switched to.
And their reasoning for switching.
Such as what they carried before.
What they switched to.
And their reasoning for switching.
armoredman
Member
Well, to cover both bases on this thread, i have submitted a proposal for my Dept, (10,000 strong), to switch from Glock to the CZ PO1. Yes, they are taking me seriusly, and will be following up, as I honestly believe the CZ is the better gun. Flame away.
SouthpawShootr
Member
hmmm, interesting. Why do you want to switch away from the Glock? I'm sure the P01 is a very capable weapon.
switching away from the glock wold be rare indeed. the only thing i've even heard, that was even close was trading in g-17s for g-22s...just a calibre switch.
i think the most impressive thing about a department adopting a glock for issue is that they send out a team to "correctly" transition your department to the new gun. that kind of thing goes a long way with administrators
i think the most impressive thing about a department adopting a glock for issue is that they send out a team to "correctly" transition your department to the new gun. that kind of thing goes a long way with administrators
tlhelmer
Member
ARGarrison,
I am looking forward to the switch.
I am looking forward to the switch.
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