Rational thoughts on Cecil

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Who names a lion "Cecil"?
I am waiting for the actual facts to come out (assuming they ever do).

LEFT. We have a rich white guy that went to Africa and killed a beloved local lion merely for the sport. He paid an extravagant sum in order to murder a defenseless, nearly tame, majestic lion. This lion was a national symbol and cannot be replaced. Lions are endangered and trophy hunters are the main reason for their demise.

Right. A dentist went through all of the proper steps to hunt and harvest a lion LEGALLY. He hired a professional guide, had permission from the landowner, and possessed all of the appropriate, government issued licenses needed to take the lion. Trophy hunting is legal in Zimbabwe and the lion was NOT in the Park when he was harvested. Trophy hunters put a great deal of money into the local economies and are the main reason that lions are still alive in many African countries.

ME. Each side probably makes some valid points. Who do I trust? The American Media? The Government of Zimbabwe? A hunter with a history of poaching and a whole lot of money to throw around?

The death of Cecil is irrelevant other than a rallying point for stupid people. We all need to realize that these African nations are not like States in the USA and they will do what is right for them today (them being the current government). If the USA puts some restrictions on importing zebra skins, lion pelts, etc then it will hurt the local government. If PETA protests in Africa then Cecil's cousins and siblings will have free meals. I am betting the local governments try to appease the American government because they really don't care about PETA. "Loving animals is a white man thing"! Truer words were never spoken.
 
I am not against the legal taking of any type of game. However, very much against illegal harvesting of animals.


That's a pretty safe position that i doubt you'll find any argument.

It would appear that even in a country with a currupt government, whether anything illegal was done is determined by the courts who have not yet spoken, and not facebook hysteria.
 
I remember a documentary yrs ago, where the top lion got old and defeated by a younger rival.

Alone and aged.......he ended up starving to death. Maybe starved to a point where hyenas tore him up before expiration.
Rough go for some time.

Bottom line: nature is cruel. Even a poorly placed arrow or bullet might be more humane. Well placed ones certainly are.

There needs to be a well documented natural demise of the other lion (Jericho). But of course when the death takes time, and it's being recorded...........it'll still look nice when edited for a 1 hr TV special.
 
Hunting is a commercial undertaking. As an industry there will be both the scrupulous and unscrupulous. It actually has nothing to do with Africa, corruption is a global scourge, check FIFA and others.

There are many Black maned lions is Africa, these are simply mature males in their prime. Cecil was a radio collared animal, the guide had to be an absolute idiot not to see this, radio collars are not small items.

Each find their own and I would surmise that given the hunters prior history that he found a like minded PH to do his bidding. The result is now apparent.

We may be in Africa but we are not idiots, we have sustainable hunting resources, this applies to all species. It is counter intuitive but for the most part hunting actually protects species, if only for greed. It is not in the interests if Africa to have all trophy species hunted out, that removes a large revenue stream from the continent.

I have friend with 4 hunting farms in the Eastern Cape area of South Africa. As friends we are encouraged to hunt the trophy Kudu as he says that picking up a 60"set of horns from a Kudu that died from old age just seems wrong. Why not allow the hunter the option to take a past breeding prime bull?

Cecil was wrong, you cannot hunt outside the law. Lion hunting is not wrong, not for me but not wrong.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/03/africa/zimbabwe-other-problems-cecil-the-lion/

This article has some good points from people who live in Zimbabwe. It's not a problem to the people of the country, it's a perceived problem to people who are privileged with too much free time and an easy supply of grocery store meat that apparently doesn't come from a living animal.

McDonald Lewanika, the director of Crisis Zimbabwe Coalition, a network of activist groups in Zimbabwe, said that while Cecil was a "tourist phenomenon," the vast majority of people in Zimbabwe did not know the lion existed.

Charity Hodzi, a Zimbabwe-based human rights activist and lawyer, said she also had never heard of Cecil. She said that going to a game park was a "luxury most locals cannot afford."
 
Pretty naive to think this whole debacle is over an anthropomorphized lion.

This lion being killed has everything:
Icky Trophy hunting
Gun complainers
Poaching
Racism
Class warfare
Social Justice
1%ers
3rd world exploitation
Corporate policy changes
White house commentary
Authorities, possible charges

Cecil the Lion = Joseph Kony of 2015

This lion really lit a fire, greater than the trophy hunting aspect of it.

P.S. I don't believe any of the BS I listed above. That is all stuff I've read and heard across various news sources.
 
I may be mistaken but it seems that the Zimbabwe is reacting to the reaction of the rest of the world (North America/Europe).
It would be an embarrassment and diplomatic failure to have our USFW to be investigating the Dr. and not have the country in which the violation occurred be interested but it seems like the gov of Zimbabwe was indifferent to lion shooting and is reacting to the publicity.
 
This whole debacle was blown out of proportion by animal rights lunatics.


It is counter intuitive but for the most part hunting actually protects species, if only for greed.
The animal rights lunatics just don't seem to understand this. Any facet of it. They are utterly blinded by the sight of a dead critter.
 
Yep..

The press is highly reliable and very well educated on wildlife issues...
 

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The press is highly reliable and very well educated on wildlife issues...


That be funny.... I dont care who ya are....






On a serious note. How will all these new airline bans effect bringing trophies home? DHL or Fedex or ship I suppose?

(Delta, United, Air France, KLM, Iberia, IAG Cargo, Singapore Airlines, Qantas, South African Airways, Emirates, Lufthansa and British Airways all issued bans)
 
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whether anything illegal was done is determined by the courts who have not yet spoken

we will find out shortly... The PH was due in court today (Wednesday there)... Seems the land owner might have copped a plea too as he is supposed to testify while his charges are pending..
 
I doubt that the dentist would have paid the big money for an illegal hunt on a national treasure of another country. That lion supported many families, aside from his own. Very sad for them, cat and human.

That dentist next hunt, if he survives this situation, will probably be a deer infestation somewhere. Deer taste good.

The guides that led the dentist into fame.......
 
eastbank nailed it!

eastbank, his post is spot on.

Zimbabwe is a failed state. Their official currency was abandoned several years ago. The locals use currencies from bordering nations or even better prefer USA dollars. Their govt is corrupt, their citizens are desperate. That $50,000 or what ever the fellow paid to hunt a lion is a fortune to them. Here it may be an average annual salary, there its like hitting the lottery. What happens over there does not even relate one bit to how we live our lives here. Apples to oranges, fluffed up by the media.

I bet, no I guarantee this is not the first lion rodeo in the last few years. Only this time, word got out. Now this dentist will pay much more than the original cost. It will follow him around ad nausea.
 
whether anything illegal was done is determined by the courts who have not yet spoken

I wonder when the last court hearing was held in Africa that would in any way resemble what we here would recognize.
 
That be funny.... I dont care who ya are....






On a serious note. How will all these new airline bans effect bringing trophies home? DHL or Fedex or ship I suppose?

(Delta, United, Air France, KLM, Iberia, IAG Cargo, Singapore Airlines, Qantas, South African Airways, Emirates, Lufthansa and British Airways all issued bans)
Ship by ocean going container. That is how I've done it several times. It takes about 3 months at about 1/4 the cost of air shipment.
 
we will find out shortly... The PH was due in court today (Wednesday there)... Seems the land owner might have copped a plea too as he is supposed to testify while his charges are pending..

The land owner Mr. Honest Trymore Ndlouvu, is a man living on confiscated land that was taken during the "repatriation" of land, AKA farm raids. Which means by default that he has strong connections within the ZANUPF which is the ruling party in Zimbabwe. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out for the "Honest Elephant (Ndlouvu)". I'm guessing that he either skates or has a little accident to shut him up. It is almost certain that Honest had some insiders helping him out.
 
The press is highly reliable and very well educated on wildlife issues...

LOL! Banning an American bison, and two species already covered by customs and international law as though they were allowing people to bring elephant and rhino parts before!
 
I wonder when the last court hearing was held in Africa that would in any way resemble what we here would recognize.

Not likely in Zimbabwe, but if he hasn't yet been found guilty in even a kangaroo court, its a little early to convict him on facebook.
 
its a little early to convict him on facebook.

The story is routinely updated by news agencies around the world. got nothing to do with FB.


The PH's trial was postponed today to give his legal team more time to prepare their defense.
 
Ship by ocean going container. That is how I've done it several times. It takes about 3 months at about 1/4 the cost of air shipment.

Good so it will probably not effect much..
 
...an illegal hunt on a national treasure of another country.
Zimbabwe's national treasure? I don't know. Maybe, only since this incident, yeah, the cat has been bandied about, propagandized as if he was always something of a big to-do.

Because I keep seeing reports like this, regarding how this lion was largely unknown, unimportant, not a celebrity nor a national treasure to the Zimbabweans... 'What lion?' Zimbabweans ask, amid global Cecil circus
 
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the next time one of the zimmies gets gobbled up by one of cecil,s cousins and they ask for help to get hid of him-her, i would say thats just to frikking bad. deal with it with a sharp stick. mr. magumbwu was last seen in this area. eastbank
 

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