RCBS Pro Chucker 5 vs Hornady LnL AP

[Dudedog]

I have the LNL Progressive and like it a lot, no experience with the RCBS.
I am happy with my LNL. I considered a Dillon 650 when I bought my LNL, but more $ and conversions cost more $ as well.

This allows me to prime off the press at a later time at no additional loss in time. I can hand prime 100 cases as fast or faster than filling a primer tubes.

I sort of do the same. Quick clean on range brass to get the sand, grit etc out. Then I make a deprime/resize pass then wet tumble the seized/deprimed brass.
Then I will prime the cases with my Lee hand primer. (usually watching the tube when I prime cases and yes wear safety glasses!)
With primed cases I have
1 Powder drop
2 Lockout die
3 Bullet feeder/drop (tube type)
4 Seat
5 Crimp

This requires and extra pass and while it may not shoot any better having nice shiny brass with spotless primer pockets makes me
I use the RCBS lock out die in my LNL. I really like it. I have a Hornady Powder cop as well but you have to watch the powder cop the lockout die you don't.
7 stations would sure be nice though!

Not a deciding factor but you cna usually get 500 free bullets from Hornady with the press. (you pay shipping so not really free)
If you go that way take the most expensive bullet you shoot.
I bought the press to load 9mm at first, but took the .45 bullets because they were more $.

 

[thomas15]

Can a thread on presses ever NOT drift into Dillon?
The OP originally stated.:

With LEE mentioned you might want to look at their new Breech Lock Pro press do out this month. It is very simple to use and caliber changes are also very low cost. Production wise it not going to do 1,000 per hour. You will be in the 500 club per hour club.

 

[DRAINSMITH]

Mike, you have said two things that are important. 1. You are about ready to retire. That means you are an old geezer.That means that little twinge you have now is not going to get better. I went to my doc and told him that I thought I had tennis elbow. He reach out and grabbed my belly and said "I don't think you have seen a tennis court in years. I think it might be Reloading elbow" So remember if you have to, not only pull the handle but also have to load cases or bullets you are adding wear to your body. 2. You think that the RCBS is expandable. Well, so is the Hornady. Stand-alone press add a case feeder, then add a bullet feeder, then add a deluxe control panel.

Now, I noticed that you were impressed with the RCBS lock out die. Well, Dillon, has a powder check die that has a buzzer that goes off when power is high or low where the lockout die will lock the press up. But with the Hornady Deluxe control panel, it has a lockout die that also has a buzzer and a light that goes off. Now, Dillon press comes with a low primer sensor that will buzz where the RCBS does not but the Hornady Deluxe control panel has a low primer sensor that not only buzzes but also has a warning light. In addition, the Deluxe control panel has a low power hopper and a stuck primer slide warning that both have a buzzer and a warning light. Neither Dillon or RCBS has this feature.

Now, would I give up the Deluxe control panel for two more stations? No. This is how I have my presses set up.
For pistol
Station 1 deprimer / resizer
Station 2 Power drop with PTX that expands the mouth of the brass
Station 3 Hornady lockout die
Station 4 Hornady bullet feeder
Station 5 Bullet seater/crimp
For rifle
Station 1 deprimer/ resizer
Station 2 Power hopper
Station 3 Power cop
Station 4 Hornady rifle bullet feeder/ bullet seater
Station 5 crimper

 

[Bang!]

OP

Don’t get overly wrapped up with the powder check die. With the Hornady lock out die I still had to look in every case. With the Dillon powder sensor die I still have to look in every case. Just can’t help myself. Have to look in every single case. One of your post above makes me think you’ll do the same. Four hole, five hole, or even the three holer, they’re all doable. Use a station for a bullet feed die or put an external Lee bullet feeder on a Dillon 550, there’s work arounds for most every press and process.

Wet tumbling does make the inside of the case shiny and that does make it a whole lot easier to see the powder in the cases.

 

[cfullgraf]

If I get a hankering to add another caliber to the Progressive Way, I buy a die plate and shell plate.....not a common thing in my cave anymore.

That's what great about most progressive presses, lots of operational flexibility.

 

[Mike P Wagner]

I have the LNL Progressive and like it a lot, no experience with the RCBS.
I am happy with my LNL. I considered a Dillon 650 when I bpought my LNL, but more $ and conversions cost more $ as well.




I sort of do the same. Quick clean on range brass to get the sand, grit etc out. Then I make a deprime/resize pass then wet tumble the seized/deprimed brass.
Then I will prime the cases with my Lee hand primer. (usually watching the tube when I prime cases and yes wear safety glasses!)
With primed cases I have
1 Powder drop
2 Lockout die
3 Bullet feeder/drop (tube type)
4 Seat
5 Crimp

This requires and extra pass and while it may not shoot any better having nice shiny brass with spotless primer pockets makes me
I use the RCBS lock out die in my LNL. I really like it. I have a Hornady Powder cop as well but you have to watch the powder cop the lockout die you don't.
7 stations would sure be nice though!

Not a deciding factor but you cna usually get 500 free bullets from Hornady with the press. (you pay shipping so not really free)
If you go that way take the most expensive bullet you shoot.
I bought the press to load 9mm at first, but took the .45 bullets because they were more $.

I like this solution a lot. I also confess a fondness for spotless primer pockets - when I was reloading 45 Colt, after de-priming, I had cleaned the primer pockets. But I always tumbled the bullets before I de-primed because the one time I didn’t, every case ended with a piece of walnut shell (I think that’s what I used, but it’s been a while and maybe I am misremembering) stuck in the primer pocket. But I guess what I was doing was dry tumbling (medime + a day of some kind of polish), so I will have to learn about wet tumbling.

I also pretty much liked hand priming - I had a Hornady tool, but I suspect that they work the same way. I liked having a direct feel for how the primer was going in the pocket, and I could inspect each case to see that the primer was seated correctly.

Thansk for the info - for right now, it seems like maybe the price diffential for an potential expansion to 7 stations isn’t worth it to me. With a 5 station set up, it seems like I could could do other the reszie/de-prime/prime step off of the progressive press, or do the crimp of of the press and have all the stations I need.

Thanks

 

[Mike P Wagner]

OP

Don’t get overly wrapped up with the powder check die. With the Hornady lock out die I still had to look in every case. With the Dillon powder sensor die I still have to look in every case. Just can’t help myself. Have to look in every single case. One of your post above makes me think you’ll do the same. Four hole, five hole, or even the three holer, they’re all doable. Use a station for a bullet feed die or put an external Lee bullet feeder on a Dillon 550, there’s work arounds for most every press and process.

Wet tumbling does make the inside of the case shiny and that does make it a whole lot easier to see the powder in the cases.

I did not know that Hornady made a lock out die - I had seen a “Powder Cop”, but that still relied on visual inspection of the indicator on top of die. I like what I have read about the RCBS Lock Out which will stop the whole process. I will have to look at the Hornady Lock Out die.

Thanks

 

[DRAINSMITH]

I did not know that Hornady made a lock out die - I had seen a “Powder Cop”, but that still relied on visual inspection of the indicator on top of die. I like what I have read about the RCBS Lock Out which will stop the whole process. I will have to look at the Hornady Lock Out die.

Thanks

Step 1 practice the phrase "Holy crap" Now say that over and over until you get it down.
Step 2. go over to the Midway site and search for Hornady "Lock-N-Load Deluxe Control Panel"
Step 3. Look at the price and use your new phrase a few times.
Step 4 watch the video
Step 5 Use your new phrase.
Step 6 Stop using your new Phrase.
By the way, I forgot that it counts each round.

 

[Rule3]

OMG! Yes someone did mention LEE. Why, I have no idea?. From the Monster thread I created on the new Lee Progressive, it does not appear to be worthy of being mentioned in a thread about the RCBS and the Hornady. As much as I like Lee and use a LCT, the new press doesn't seem to be worth anything to me. No auto primer? Safety prime sold separately. No Powder measure? Sold separately?? I will wait for the "classic" version
JMO We will let the BETA testers explain it all. For around $200 more I would get the Hornady or the RCBS (at $400)

 

[Mike P Wagner]

Step 1 practice the phrase "Holy crap" Now say that over and over until you get it down.
Step 2. go over to the Midway site and search for Hornady "Lock-N-Load Deluxe Control Panel"
Step 3. Look at the price and use your new phrase a few times.
Step 4 watch the video
Step 5 Use your new phrase.
Step 6 Stop using your new Phrase.
By the way, I forgot that it counts each round.

The dashboard looks cool - I thought it was for the Ammo Plant. Will definitely keep it in mind. I will confess to an irrational preference for interesting mechanical mechanisms like the RCBS Lock Out over electronics and software. I think that irrationality has roots in the fact that I am retiring from a career writing softare...

 

[Bang!]

I did not know that Hornady made a lock out die - I had seen a “Powder Cop”, but that still relied on visual inspection of the indicator on top of die. I like what I have read about the RCBS Lock Out which will stop the whole process. I will have to look at the Hornady Lock Out die.

Thanks

You’re right. Have the powder cop, too. Still look in every case. Only one I still use is the Dillon. Trying to trust that task to a mechanical device is difficult. Trust issues? Hahahahaha Probably.

 

[Dudedog]

Using WSF in 9mm when adjusted correctly for 4.4gr my RCBS lockout die will usually lock on any charge more than .3 gr off. (created the .3gr off ones for testing to see how much it took)
.3 is way to much if your loading MAX loads but its nice to know it will catch .3. None or doubles are an easy catch.

PS I don't care if the lockout die box is green and the press is red.
I use my Lee 9mm decap, sizes tighter than the Hornady 9mm sizer I have, Hornady powder measusre, sometime my Lee auto disk or Lee prod disk, RCBS lockout die, Hornady tube type bullet feeder,
Hornady seater and crimp, Lee FCD for 9mm. Different mix for .45, but the point is you can mix and match whatever brand of dies you happen to like.
I don't know if you could use "Blue" dies in a Red or Green press without causing a cataclysmic event somewhere in the world but otherwise it should be possible.

 

[cfullgraf]

I don't know if you could use "Blue" dies in a Red or Green press without causing a cataclysmic event somewhere in the world but otherwise it should be possible.

As long as the die is threaded 7/8"-14, you can use it in most progressive presses. Dillon SDB dies are the only that I know of for presses that are currently manufactured that are press specific. Old, out of production presses may be a different story.

I use a mix of RCBS and Redding dies with my progressive presses (Hornady l-N-L, RCBS Pro2000, Dillon 550) and all work well. Dillon dies, while I am sure are excellent dies, do not fit my prefered method of operating a progressive press so I have not tried them. They do have some features that are interesting.

I do have one or two Lyman dies in the mix. They perform well, I just do not like orange storage boxes.

I do not have any Lee or Hornady dies in the mix at this time for a variety of reasons but many folks do like them and they do work well for them. They are 7/8-14 threads and should work just fine. Each individual needs to find what makes them happy.

 

[Paladin7]

Having 7 Stations is definitely a bonus, having said that, personally, I'm done with RCBS Progressive Presses. I now own a Hornady Lock n Load AP Press and couldn't be happier. I would highly recommend the Hornady Lock n Load AP.

When I got into reloading I bought the RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme Master Reloading Kit and it was a great purchase. I still use the Rock Chucker to this day and all the components in that initial kit. Then I upgraded it to the Piggyback System to get the Progressive capability at a reasonable price point. That's when the issues started, mainly due to what I would call, poor, over complicated design.

When I was considering dumping the Piggyback System and getting a true Progressive, I looked at the RCBS Pro Chucker and the Hornady Lock n Load AP. What I noticed was that many of the poor design features of the Piggyback were carried over to the Pro Chucker. For example...

1. The paperclip shell retention system on the first stage. I constantly found myself having the lift the end of the clip to feed a shell into the first station and lock it in place, a major annoyance. If you don't take time to get the retention right, the shell will not be aligned properly and cause problems. On the Hornady machine, the retention system is simple genius. The shell feeds into the plate and is automatically picked up by the spring retention system, that goes around the entire shell plate, with no additional manual effort.

2. The spring steel shell retention system on the other stations. This system did not always keep the shells locked in place and eventually broke under use, multiple times. The Hornady system of shell retention on the shell plate is simple and very effective, no issues and no manual adjustment needed.

3. Removable Die Plates. These plates allow you to mount your dies and then replace the entire plate when changing calibers. Sounds like a good idea, but in practice, the plates are not a flush precision fit in the frame and introduce slop into the process. The plates move slightly up and down when you pull the press handle all the way down. The Hornady system uses a solid steel die plate that is integral to the frame. This design eliminates all slop, nothing can move, hence more accurate and consistent operation at each die station. Plus, with Hornady, you get the Lock n Load Bushing system, so you can set your dies once and never have to set them again. The dies then slip into the top of the press and a quarter turn locks them in place. Simple, problem free and all settings are retained.

4. Paperclip cartridge ejection system. This RCBS design feature is an exercise in sheer aggravation. The clip will move under usage and prevent finished cartridges from being ejected smoothly, requiring constant adjustment, no matter how tight you screw it down. The Hornady system is simple and flawless. There is a small raised section under the die plate that effortlessly kicks out the finished cartridge without any adjustment needed ever.

Bottom line, although 7 stations would be ideal, the RCBS has design features that I have found extremely problematic under frequent use. Since these features have been retained on the new Pro Chucker series, I will never buy one. I have owned the Hornady Press for a few years now and use it weekly, without any major issues. It is a much simpler design and simple is king.

I hope this helps in your decision making process...

 

[Rule3]

Which one of the Hornady or RCBS 5 is the easiest and least expensive for caliber changes??
Cost of shell plates and ease of changing them over along with the powder measure??

 

[GW Staar]

Different strokes for different folks. I've been loading on a Pro 2000 for 9 years, and I would list all your complaints as things that are simple, easy to adjust, and has always worked well for me.....which is why I just ordered a new Pro Chucker. I will find out if your idea that "7 stations would be ideal". Don't know, but I admit it intrigues me enough to try one to see, in spite of the main gripe I have about the new RCBS presses, Aluminum frames.......but then besides the cast iron Dillon 1050 and RCBS Pro 2000, all the rest are aluminum. And BTW, the movement in the die plates allow the cases to find center and makes them more concentric....an on purpose feature not a problem.

Rule3: I looked in to that comparing the 2000 and the LnL and it was pretty much a wash.....but then they are pretty similar pwdr measure wise, each borrowing from the other in the design. buying parts for caliber changes are pretty similar. Personal preference on the die plate, LnL features. You know what I prefer....but then I've never tried to set up dies all separate ..... just like the concept of grabbing a plate and sliding it in....dropping the upper part of the P.M. on it, filling it and adjusting the mic, screwing in another primer size if needed and then load away. I don't think the new press is much different......but then Fed Ex just came .....guess what came....the Prochucker 5! It's Aluminum!!!! I knew that. In case some are confused....I have a 5 to 7 upgrade kit waiting for us at home.....it came first. Just counted the parts...everything is there...whew.

The real fun/test for me will begin after work. If you're curious, I'll be reporting on what I find in the Pro Chucker thread.

 

[Rule3]

AL O Min E Um???

 

[GW Staar]

The interesting thing is that a Hornady LnL AP plus a Hornady LnL single stage press costs much less than a Pro Chucker 7, whether thats’s the intital price of a Pro Chucker 7 or the price of Pro Chucker 4 plus the upgrade.

Mike, I was reading through your thread and saw the above and thought that's the wrong reason to choose red over green.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is a bad progressive press, and I don't care which one fits you best. That said, the reason to choose one over the other is the feature set (which one fits you) and of course the price.

I just took my brand new $400 P.C. 5 out of the box and it's all there, new and clean, and considerably cheaper than at Midway.....it even had the new improved primer bars, so that's $400 for a press that you can convert to a 7 station press....maybe 2 years from now. So don't count the initial price of both together. That's not apples to apples. If you just like the Hornady concept best, then go for it. Nuttin wrong with that!

What are the upgrade options on the Hornady? Get a new press, period. Maybe a 1050 if you want more stations, or a P.C.7. or something even more spensive. One thing's for sure: Whatever it is, it will cost you a lot more than a PC5 to PC7 upgrade kit. (mine cost $268.50)

 

[DRAINSMITH]

Mike, I was reading through your thread and saw the above and thought that's the wrong reason to choose red over green.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is a bad progressive press, and I don't care which one fits you best. That said, the reason to choose one over the other is the feature set (which one fits you) and of course the price.

I just took my brand new $400 P.C. 5 out of the box and it's all there, new and clean, and considerably cheaper than at Midway.....it even had the new improved primer bars, so that's $400 for a press that you can convert to a 7 station press....maybe 2 years from now. So don't count the initial price of both together. That's not apples to apples. If you just like the Hornady concept best, then go for it. Nuttin wrong with that!

What are the upgrade options on the Hornady? Get a new press, period. Maybe a 1050 if you want more stations, or a P.C.7. or something even more spensive. One thing's for sure: Whatever it is, it will cost you a lot more than a PC5 to PC7 upgrade kit.

Go reread post 28.

 

[cfullgraf]

I use, and am happy with, the Hornady powder cop die although, I've only studied the instructions and how folks use the RCBS lock out die.

The powder cop die is quick and easy to adjust. It is one of the few applications where I use Lee die o-ring lock rings. With the number of different cartridges that I load on progressives, quick and easy adjustment is important.

I've found my powder measure throws charges accurately enough that I do not worry about small changes. But you do have to include the powder cop die in the scan while operating the press. From other activities that I participate in, a visual scan is important so adapting one to the progressive was easy for me.

I want to see major deviations from the proper powder charge such as no powder or a double charge.

From my point of view, the RCBS lock out die requires too much adjustment for rapid and frequent changes. Also, it is too expensive to buy one for each cartridge that I load.

Many folks like the RCBS lock out die. It is great that we have options.

 

[GW Staar]

Go reread post 28.

I read it several times.....if that works for you great. A press with more stations just gives more options....like an M die if you need it. I don't care for Hornady PTX's, RCBS's reincarnation has an M die type feature, but it's not quite an M die. I would like to be able to use a separate expander (M die like) to make bullet drop less likely to tilt when the shell plate is yanked around the circle.
Then there's the seating/crimp combo.....that works....sometimes. I'd rather have the option to crimp separately if I want. And that's the whole 9 yards, options. The new https://www.markvii-loading.com/assets/images/evolution_toolhead rifle.jpg has 10 stations. Why?......somebody thinks there is a reason.

My last reply to the O.P. really had nothing to do with your post.....it wasn't a rebuttal. The point was either 5 station press can do what's on your list. And any 5 station press with any single stage can do what Mike was suggesting. But you can't make a 5 station press do what a 7 station press can do ........ if (and that's the catch of course)......if you ever want to upgrade. For that the 5 to 7 kit is cheap!

The automatic control is nifty ..... but I'd rather have more stations than a controller/beeper/warner. If Hornady made a 5 to 7 kit.....I might have bought it this time around to get me some red on the bench....to go with my Hornady Bullet Feeder.

I use, and am happy with, the Hornady powder cop die although, I've only studied the instructions and how folks use the RCBS lock out die.

The powder cop die is quick and easy to adjust. It is one of the few applications where I use Lee die o-ring lock rings. With the number of different cartridges that I load on progressives, quick and easy adjustment is important.

I've found my powder measure throws charges accurately enough that I do not worry about small changes. But you do have to include the powder cop die in the scan while operating the press. From other activities that I participate in, a visual scan is important so adapting one to the progressive was easy for me.

I want to see major deviations from the proper powder charge such as no powder or a double charge.

From my point of view, the RCBS lock out die requires too much adjustment for rapid and frequent changes. Also, it is too expensive to buy one for each cartridge that I load.

Many folks like the RCBS lock out die. It is great that we have options.

Good points....I have an RCBS lock out that I never have used....I thought ugh....don't want to buy that for every die plate.

My solution was setting up a micro video camera, and a 4" screen in front of my face, so I can watch each case with its powder load come around the circle.
Saves a station, and nothing to adjust for each caliber.....it's a stationary feature. (will have to work out how to do that on the new press.)

 

[THEWELSHM]

Lock and Load for 5 years here. Watch Highboy YouTube videos, or message Drainsmith mate. Me if you so desire, you won’t look back..

Thewelshm

 

[Texas1880]

At a quick glance, it looks like the 550 has four stations. I think that will make it hard to have a powder check station and a separate bullet seat and crimp, particularly if I would like to be able at some hypothetical time in the future to be able to add a bullet feed die.

Is that correct?

Yes the powder check system does not work on the 550. Well...it can, but you have to customize a tool head and use a combi seat crimp, which isn’t the best IMO.

In the other hand, the 650 is awesome.

 

[cfullgraf]

It looks like with the 550, I could not have a powder check die and a separate crimping die - and adding a bullet feed die later would be impossible.

Because I resize and mouth expand in one press operation, then tumble and prime off the press, then load the cartridges in a second press operation, I can have a powder cop die in station 2 on my Dillon 550 and still seat and crimp in separate stations.

But, still no room for a bullet feeder.

(Side note, except for 460 S&W Mag, cartridges that I load on the Dillon 550 are sized on the Hornady L-N-L)

With the Dillon SDB, another 4 station progressive press, since the die threads are different for the different positions, there is not hope of moving components to alternate locations possible with a press that has 7/8"-14 threads. I visually check the powder level on my SBDs and as a result, I only load short cartridges on this press (45 ACP,9x19, 380 ACP). I cannot see the powder level in a 38 Special case.

P.S. My Dillon 550 is the BL550, as in "Basic Loader" 550. It came without a priming system or powder measure. Since I prime off the press and prefer to use my modified Redding 10-X, RCBS Uniflow or Hornady L-N-L powder measures on my progressive presses, no sense buying an RL550 with parts that I would not use.

 

[Mike P Wagner]

Mike, I was reading through your thread and saw the above and thought that's the wrong reason to choose red over green.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is a bad progressive press, and I don't care which one fits you best. That said, the reason to choose one over the other is the feature set (which one fits you) and of course the price.

I just took my brand new $400 P.C. 5 out of the box and it's all there, new and clean, and considerably cheaper than at Midway.....it even had the new improved primer bars, so that's $400 for a press that you can convert to a 7 station press....maybe 2 years from now. So don't count the initial price of both together. That's not apples to apples. If you just like the Hornady concept best, then go for it. Nuttin wrong with that!

What are the upgrade options on the Hornady? Get a new press, period. Maybe a 1050 if you want more stations, or a P.C.7. or something even more spensive. One thing's for sure: Whatever it is, it will cost you a lot more than a PC5 to PC7 upgrade kit. (mine cost $268.50)

If the Pro Chucker 5 costs the same as the Hornady, then that would seem to give the edge to to the Pro Chucker 5, because the Pro Chucker 5 can be converted to a Pro Chucker 7 if I want to do that later.

When I look at Amazon (just for price comparison), I see the Pro Chucker 5 for about $150 more than the Hornady Lock n Load progressive.

Did you get your Pro Chucker 5 from Molly’s Place on eBay? Do you know why they can sell the pressed for $100 or so less than anyone else?