Red dot on a HD 870--usefull or useless???

[No_Brakes23]

SinistralRifleman said...
For people that do shoot and train sufficiently reflex sights can be an advantage and a worthwhile investment.

What is your definition of sufficient training? How much, and what training environment?

This year, I have made a commitment of 50 rounds per HD firearm per month or failing that 100 per firearm per quarter. I will fire my HD rounds with the shotgun at the greatest distance in my apt, (about 10 yards) at an indoor range. Is that a good training schedule? Or is that barely a fam-fire?

 

[SinistralRifleman]

Sufficient training is relative to the individual...that's not something I can define.

If you pick up your gun and have to consciously think about what you need to do to perform a certain task with it, then I would say you need to practice more.

Everyone who owns guns should constantly strive to maintain and increase their skill level with them....practice the things that are hard more than the things that are easy.

 

[P0832177]

Not sure a person can quantify # of rounds down range is adequate to assure your ability to employ a long gun! But, a good start is always in vesting in your self, seems to me BA/UU/R comes to mind here! Skip the accessories! Shoot your gun till you are one with it!

 

[Dave McCracken]

Speaking from experience.....

A bead is quite sufficient for HD for most folks.

If you want to get complicated, feel free. Your butt is the one on the line.

However...

First, get absolutely deadly with your weapons of choice before adding sights, lights, fuzzy dice,fender skirts and naugahyde upholstery.

If you're spending more on accessories than on ammo and range fees, you're in dire need of reprioritizing. And you're less ready for defending you and yours than you may like to admit.

NO brakes, that's better than nothing, but you can do better. Find an outdoor range and go shoot some clays. A few rounds of clays a month, especially those with double targets, will hone your skills amazingly fast. And it's major fun.

 

[natedog]

I don't really like using the M4 stock adaptors on shotguns; they have so/so cheek weld, and a rough texture (looks like a meat tenderizer) on the butt. With a .223, they're just fine, but with 12 gauge, it's very uncomfortable. Seems to be the current fad to throw an AR15 stock onto any weapon imaginable; shotguns, AKs, HK91s, etc.

 

[Zak Smith]

I don't really like using the M4 stock adaptors on shotguns; they have so/so cheek weld,

Cheek weld is completely dependent on the stock, not the stock adapter. The CavArms SST-870 stock adapter pictured replicates the M16 geometry.

Beyond that, the cheek weld is defined by the stock you use. Get a A2, A1, or Magpul stock if you want a good cheek weld. The old M4 telestock do suck in that regard; it has nothing to do with the stock adapter.

Seems to be the current fad to throw an AR15 stock onto any weapon imaginable; shotguns, AKs, HK91s, etc.

Because it duplicates the near ideal ergonomics of the M16 design and leverages all that adjustable length of pull technology...

-z

 

[natedog]

Let me clarify, I don't like using an M4 stock on a shotgun for ergonomic reasons.

 

[shoot870p]

not in favor of one on a defensive shotgun.

 

[355sigfan]

I'd have to say useless. Maybe even dangerous if you take time to look through it when you could have just pointed and shot.
__________________
Thank you, Chris

END QUOTE

I totally disagree with your concept. Point shooting does not work that well especially with a shotgun at room distances where there is no shot spread. The shot is hitting in a fist sized pattern. The shotgun must be aimed just like a rifle anda pistol. Dot sights allow faster aiming. So they would be usefull.
Pat

 

[Marshall]

Absolutely useless and probably a drawback.

If they were so great for shotgun use wouldn't you think competitive shooters would use them? When was the last time you saw a Kreighoff with a red dot?

All they're going to do is get in your way, cover the target and cost you time trying to get on sight. Some may say they're faster, they are faster, faster than a crosshair scope. But for close quarters, on a shotgun, in your home, nodda.

 

[355sigfan]

Actually a lot of competion shotguns have them. Look at shotguns used in 3 gun matches which by the way is way more applicable to self defense than skeet shooting. Their faster than iron sights even ghostrings because your dot is on the same plane as your target. Its as fast as a bead with more accuracy.
Pat

 

[rallyhound]

I have a 590 with a cheap tasco accudot on top.
as far a shooting across the room I agree the sight is worthless but it is not at all going effect my point shooting in that situation.
If I need to put in a slug and shoot at 50yards, then it is a huge advantage.
with just a bead sight I bet most people cant put a slug on a man sized target at 50 yards.
And, aperature sights are simply not as fast as a dot sight.
My cheap accudot has well over 1000 round on it and going strong.

 

[No_Brakes23]

I have decided to put the Mesa Tac AR adapater and reflex sight on hold, more for economic reasons than defensive considerations.

I have already put $160 into the 20" barrel and another $40 into the mag ext. I still am not sure what to do about the light situation, but for now I use $5 LED night lights all over the house. For now, I am gonna concentrate on putting rounds downrange, rather than mods.

I think I will do the AR kit/reflex sight mod to another shotgun, (870s are really not too expensive,) so that if I decide I hate it, I haven't mall-ninja'd my HD weapon to the point of uselessness. I remain optimistic about the possiblities of a red-dot with a shotgun.

 

[Black Majik]

I vote useless, for a HD shotgun... LESS is better.

Stick with bead sights or fiber optic. I'd even say GR sights is pushing it for HD duty.

 

[EghtySx]

I totally disagree with your concept. Point shooting does not work that well especially with a shotgun at room distances where there is no shot spread. The shot is hitting in a fist sized pattern. The shotgun must be aimed just like a rifle anda pistol. Dot sights allow faster aiming. So they would be usefull.

Every shotgun class I took as a child taught me that you aim a rifle, you point a shotgun. You squeeze a rifle trigger, you slap a shotgun trigger.

 

[355sigfan]

The problem is your shotgun classes were probably centered around skeet or clays. Where your shooting targets that are small and moving at 60 mph. Your also shooting them with birdshot at a range where you have a significant shot spread. Buck shot at 20 feet has only spread about the size of your fist. It must be aimed just like a rifle. Defensive shootgun shooting is pretty much identical to rifle shooting in technigue. Thats why most defensive shotguns now wear rifle sights or ghostrings if their used by police or the military. I have only had formal training on shotguns dealing with my job in law enforcement so I can't tell you much about skeet other than I have shot it and its fun. But slapping the trigger never seems like a good idea. I also use the beed on my bird guns to track the target and aim I don't point.
Pat