Remington cylinder binding. Solution????

[denster]

One of the most reported problems with the 58 Remington design is binding of the cylinder from fouling buildup on the base pin.
Colt addressed this problem in the 1862 open top and SAA with a gas ring. Of course that is not possible with the Remington design short of reducing the cylinder length and setting back the barrel. Too much work.
I've been kicking an idea around in my head for awhile that while it wouldn't eliminate the problem might moderate it somewhat.
Before I do it I thought I would post it here for some discussion or maybe someone has allready tried it.
What I was considering was counterboring the front of the cylnder base pin hole about .020 oversize and about 3/16" deep. Sort of a reverse gas ring.
I've noticed with the Colt open tops. The ones I have where the cylinder arbor diameter ends before the face of the cyliinder that they have less tendency to bind up than those where it extends past the front of the cylinder.
I'm most interested in responses as to why this might or might not work or the results from someone who has tried it. I'm well aware of all the common remedies ie: dry pin, lubed pin, lubed wads becoming the Crisco Kid etc.
So! What do you all think?

 

[TheRodDoc]

Not sure. I would think that it might funnel more fouling into the cyl bore though.

I don't own a Remington but just looking at pictures it might be possible to counter bore the cylinder pin bore and press in a short sleeve. Then cut some off of the frame where the pin bore is.
Like I said I don't know if there is room to do this for sure but if there is it would work much better to stop fouling from entering the cylinder pin bore.

And if that isn't possible then how about just cutting a rounded notch the dia. of the pin right at the front of the cylinder? Not so deep as to weaken the pin a lot but just enough to help direct the blast past the cylinder pin bore.

 

[denster]

Rod Doc. Of course there is enough room to install a gas ring and if I were serious about it that is what I would do. It would require removing the barrel and milling a seat for the ring, counter boring the cylinder and press fitting the ring. It would make a neat job of it.
The second idea had occured to me also. Essentialy like Colt's lateral fire deflector.
I may just try both and see which works best or at all. This is more of a curiosity thing since I always load outside the gun and wipe the pin.
By the way excellent illustrations.

 

[arcticap]

rcflint reported about how he made an 1858 Remington cylinder pin bushing
which is described in his posts #15 & #19 respectively below:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=468701&highlight=cylinder+bushing

I have made a gas ring bushing and relieved the frame to accept it. It prevents the fouling from getting to the cylinder pin. It is similar to the Ruger Old Army gas ring.

Husker, I made and reamed the hole .374/.375 diameter, .38 deep. I turned the gas ring .375 to press in, and I did locktite it. I finish bored the hole in the bushing after installation to make sure it aligned with the rest of the cylinder's arbor hole. (diameter 7mm or so).

The gas ring protrusion is .140, and matched with a .140 cut on the frame, with the barrel removed for that process. I had to take a pass on the exposed barrel threads with a file, just a hair after reinstallation to clear the gas ring, or you could reduce the gas ring bushing diameter a bit so it doesn't rub.

This does reduce the support of the barrel's forcing cone by the frame in that area, but it is unsupported at the sides as it is, anyway.

Smoking Gun, I can convert yours if you want, email me if you're interested. [email protected]

 

[denster]

Thanks for posting that link Arcticap. I hadn't seen it before good info.

 

[Curator]

This issue was one of the reasons that the 1860 Colt Army was so popular in the War between the States; it resisted cylinder binding if properly lubricated. I have found that using a good stiff bee's wax/lard lube over the loaded balls in my 1858 remmies kept the cylinder pin working as it prevented the fouling from getting "crusty." Truthfully, I do have to pull the cyulinder pin after 3 or four cylinders full and wipe the pin. Using a cylinder loader instead of the loading lever on the gun makes this a moot point.

 

[BHP FAN]

shooting a dry ball seems to be the main cause of this problem. Why not just coat the pin with wonder lube or Bore Butter? works for me.

 

[arcticap]

Another known problem that such a bushing would alleviate is flame or gas cutting of the Remington cylinder pin right in front of where the cylinder is seated on the pin.
While that would lead to cylinder pin replacment, the new part still requires a lot less effort and expense than installing a bushing.
There's discussion and photos that illustrate how hot flame can lead to gas cutting of the cylinder pin in the thread below:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=209899&highlight=gas+cutting+cylinder+pin

 

[madcratebuilder]

Another known problem that such a bushing would alleviate is flame or gas cutting of the Remington cylinder pin right in front of where the cylinder is seated on the pin.
While that would lead to cylinder pin replacment, the new part still requires a lot less effort and expense than installing a bushing.
There's discussion and photos that illustrate how hot flame can lead to gas cutting of the cylinder pin in the thread below:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=209899&highlight=gas+cutting+cylinder+pin

I have been meaning to do this mod to one of my 58's. I'm just to lazy to remove the barrel. You end up with a gas check like the ROA has.

 

[TheWall]

A little shot of Ballistol on the pin before firing works for me. But after 4 cylinders I still have to take off the cylinder and wipe clean.

 

[BCRider]

For cowboy shooting events I'm using a drop of Canola rape seed oil over the balls since mine sit so deep in the cylinder with just the 30 gn's of powder instead of using a wad. No time for that when I'm trying to load as well as help out with scoring and spotting at a typical event. The Canola oil seems to work as we shoot 5 stages and I have not had a cylinder go tight during the 25 rounds from each gun. One day we stayed and played with the black powder and I shot another 4 cylinders worth from one of the guns and 2 from the other. Again no issues with binding although one was getting a little "greasy" feeling by the end of it. That was only felt during the last check to clear it though.