Remington moving to Huntsville AL

[HexHead]

HexHead, do you know for a fact their QC problems are caused by lazy union workers? I worked in a union shop for 27 years. Our QC was the highest in a mu8lti-billion $ industry. Now I'm retired with a pension and healthcare. Please be careful your paintbrush doesn't get too wide. Have a nice evening.

I used to work at a place that had a union, though you didn't have to join it, but still had to work under the union rules. When the new contract was coming up, the union rep would come in and tell us we needed to vote for the new contract, to help the guys in W. VA that were having a tough time. Never mind the new contract was worse for us that were making money. I ended up joining the union solely to vote against the contract, which was defeated. I eventually left the company, partly because it was the only way to get out of the union again. I hated that they were giving money to Democrats. Unions only exist to support mediocrity.

 

[OH_Spartan]

The move to the south should help with recruiting talent. I got a call from a recruiter asking if I was interested in being a product manager for kimber. YES! The recruiter described my dream job. I was ready to apply immediately. Then the recruiter said the job was in new York city. No they won't entertain a home office. Conversation ended. I woke up from my dream. I asked the recruiter how kimber could ever get someone enthusiastic about firearms, who is also experienced in product launch, innovation and marketing to move to NYC!

How many engineers coming out of auburn, Georgia tech or Texas a&m would jump at the chance to work for firearms r&d but would never move to ny.

 

[ironworkerwill]

Unions only exist to support mediocrity.

That is false statement! Less you have seen the photo of 8 year old children picking rocks out of sluice boxes at a coal mine. Or men made to work 18 hr days under the threat of termination. Fat Cat men who fail to pay an honest wage and get wealthy in the process.

Some things need to be regulated. If not we'd be under a kings rule to this day.

 

[Tommygunn]

That is false statement! Less you have seen the photo of 8 year old children picking rocks out of sluice boxes at a coal mine. Or men made to work 18 hr days under the threat of termination. Fat Cat men who fail to pay an honest wage and get wealthy in the process.

Some things need to be regulated. If not we'd be under a kings rule to this day.

Yeah, like those auto workers union members caught on camera swilling beer and smoking pot, and which were staunchly defended by union reps when the company tried to discipline them......

Works both ways. A hundred years ago unions were needed. Not so much anymore and union membership has dropped dramatically as a result.
Power can corrupt in the blue collar world and the white collar world; we're ALL human beings.

 

[rbernie]

At the risk of thread drift - bargaining units made sense in an age where the limitations on cheap transportation between jobs and job markets formed a barrier to the natural market forces that drive job supply and demand. It is historic fact that folk have engaged in predatory employment behavior because of the constriction in the localized job market caused by geographic and transportation barriers. Having said that, bargaining units ceased to make sense IMO once the job supply (employers and markets) was leveled via the availability of relatively cheap transportation. While bargaining units no doubt continue to serve their members in some capacity, they also run the very real risk of over-inflating the 'market value' of their members. This can cause erosion of the job supply itself (employers contract and/or go out of business due to inability to control labor cost) and often causes a mismatch in fair market value for a given skill set between industries (e.g. a forklift driver in the local wood lot gets half the pay of a forklift driver at a major manufacturer's plant). Now that cheap transportation has became readily available, I believe that fair market forces are a viable means by which the job markets can self-regulate; employers that treated their workers better naturally retain their staff longer. For that reason, I tend to favor industry moving to locations where the workers are free to choose if they wish to engage in collective bargaining or not as opposed to having it dictated by fiat.

I think that the movement of Remington jobs to Huntville will only increase as the corporate folk find that they can get more growth for less cost in the Rocket City technology and industrial market.

 

[Deog]

Been in project management in the construction industry for well over 25 years The labor pool has depleted to a embarrassing level. workmanship and work ethic are at an all time low.
Hearding feral cats is what it is, actually babysitting people that just don't care about anything but there paycheck.
If i had my choice, i would manage non union labor any day, job will get done faster, under budget and at a higher level of quality.

Flame away.

 

[Tirod]

I work in retail, it's not just union members who are lazy or lack work ethics. It's much worse than that.

In fact, among those of us who DO work, the idea of a union is becoming attractive. Every time minimum wage is raised, we never see a parity offset. The newer workers get the benefit, the company saves payroll by reducing or eliminating longevity increases. It's all tied back to setting goals in productivity that are calculated to be unreachable.

My freat grandmother had that problem working for Levi Strauss in SF in the day - we worked her way from sewing to inspector, every step of the way the company increased the piece rate and lowered the pay. She still kept excelling and making the goal. After three years they came up with what they thought was an impossible combination and she still made goal. This was in the '20s - she found another job and quit. They begged her to come back and she refused.

What percentage of older working Americans can't get hired and is going on disability? Any wonder why only the lazy and shiftless are hired now? IT'S ALL THERE IS - that is, in metro areas.

Here out in "small town" America you can find people who have no problem with working, exactly the reason that Remington is "moving" to Huntsville. They can find a WORK force, not people lining up for a job.

Me, my pay has stagnated for over 15 years and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. The new kids get over $3 an hour more now, but guys like me with time in get nothing. Record profits are announced every year, "oh, I'm sorry, all we can do is offer you less than inflation" when it comes to appraisals.

Give me union pay and you won't get any more work out of me, what I will get is paid fairly.

 

[rbernie]

Give me union pay and you won't get any more work out of me, what I will get is paid fairly.

Free markets only work if folk vote with their feet and their wallets. I've moved myself and my family at least three times based on that principle; I know that's harder for some than others but in the end it's still the only reliable force in a free market. The alternative is to make the market 'less than free' (which is what BU's and minimum wages and other such things effectively do), and the law of unintended consequences almost always assures that the cure is worse than the disease in long term effect.

And we're seeing this in spades over the last several decades in the US - foreign automakers looking to set up shop anywhere in the US are clearly bypassing the traditional US auto industry infrastructure in favor of those locations that provide them access to the workforce, materials, and transportation needed to succeed without the artificial encumberances inherent in the traditional US auto industry.

Back to the OP - why should Remington, or any other US company, not similarly want to do the same? They do, and they will continue to do so so long as they can be be assured that moving/relocating will not lose them the intellectual capital that forms the backbone of their business.

 

[Mike J]

I am a union worker in the building trades. To say that all union workers take advantage isn't very realistic. There may be abuses by some unions but in our local it is pretty much put out or get out. If you are not productive you wont be around very long. Of course there are always a few that get by on who they are related to or who they drink beer or deer hunt with but that seems to happen with anything & has more to do with management on the contractors side than the union.

 

[OH_Spartan]

I see closure of this discussion very soon....

I think conservative supporters of rkba will find union members important ally. I have discussed economics and politics with more than one union member. For all of our disagreements, we have common ground on rkba. I think many more union members vote for pro2a candidates than political talk show hosts will admit. There is value in finding common ground on rkba even if all else is at odds.

 

[rbernie]

I sure hope that nobody here thinks that folk that belong to bargaining units are somehow inferior supporters of the RKBA. That would be absurd.

The discussion really should revolve around how to best keep the US firearms industry healthy.

 

[ironworkerwill]

Well I don't think the Huntsville site will be a union shop, at least to begin with. The work force of other big companies in the in the south have declined union membership. I feel this is mostly because of competitive pay, benefits, and fair treatment. The union also helps the nonunion workforce, not to the unions benefit however, but despite it.

 

[Mike J]

I sure hope that nobody here thinks that folk that belong to bargaining units are somehow inferior supporters of the RKBA. That would be absurd.

The discussion really shuold revolve around how to best keep the US firearms industry healthy.

Yep. I do not feel good about the damage that may come to working people in New York or other states with anti-gun legislation. I do like the fact that the firearms industry is basically giving the politicians in those states the finger. Hopefully enough working people in those states are paying attention & letting their elected officials know of their displeasure. As for being a unioin member just because one is a member of a union & has a contract of employment it does not make them anti-American or liberal. Personally I don't see the more liberal politicians being any great ally of labor. They are just another breed of tick much like any other politician.

 

[Midwest]

Before this gets closed, let me just say again that Remington made a great choice in picking Alabama. And Remington also sent a message as well, a message that the national media could not ignore. A message that got NY politicians concerned and a message that gun owners across the U.S. could cheer on.

 

[scramasax]

Only stated once in the thread Remington is not closing New York! They are closing other plants, including E town. This is not a win in any way for anyone except possibly Huntsville. Good for them. It is only a restructuring of assets. That is no win for RKBA or the southern states.

 

[Quickdraw Limpsalot]

They also sent the message that the bottom line will always trump taking care of the people that make you money.

 

[rbernie]

They also sent the message that the bottom line will always trump taking care of the people that make you money

I'd agree with that, if they didn't offer corporate relocations for their skilled staff whose jobs are moving. And labor expansions (adding jobs) doesn't seem to fall in to that category at all.

 

[ironworkerwill]

How will the bottom line triumph the people who make you money? If the company can't make payroll no one gets paid.

 

[Quickdraw Limpsalot]

I'd agree with that, if they didn't offer corporate relocations for their skilled staff whose jobs are moving. And labor expansions (adding jobs) doesn't seem to fall in to that category at all.

Oh, they're offering "something," but it's more insult than incentive.

How will the bottom line triumph the people who make you money? If the company can't make payroll no one gets paid.

There's plenty of money being made, I assure you.

 

[Robert]

Sigh. Unions and their respective issues are not a topic for THR. And since this has drifted far from the original topic we are done.