rifle for new youth hunter, .357 mag, 44 mag or 243.

horsey300 said:
Where are you hunting (this helps with legalities)? Do you handload? And what do you think the .243 will do that the arc can't at 100 yds or less? I've taught quite a few new shooters/hunters, some of their kids, and all 4 of my kids(how to shoot, the oldest 2 hunt and the youngest probably will too). Where we live/hunt anything starting at (appropriately loaded) .223 on up is legal, and most times plenty. Extremely curious about your disagreement with the ARC as it's about perfect for a deer round. A 100 gr anything at 2600-2700 with 30ish gr of powder? Out of a 7.5 lb rifle, that's very mild recoil (on par with a .22-250, also another good choice) and plenty enough horsepower for Bambi.
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I'm really only interested in the "classics". The classics will always be chambered and loaded for. And at typical hunting ranges for myself cover the bases just fine.
 
Bearcat1982 said:
I'm really only interested in the "classics". The classics will always be chambered and loaded for. And at typical hunting ranges for myself cover the bases just fine.
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Then .243 all the way. Buy a rifle in a rifle cartridge. I like the .357 and .44 magnums just fine, but neither would be my first choice for a dedicated hunting rifle.
 
N555 said:
Yeah the 6mm fart is already dead.
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im not the most seasoned hunter or gun enthusiast but I have seen calibers come and go. While the 30-30s, 30-06's keep on chugging. and inside 300 yards maybe farther depending on the round do pretty much the same thing as their respective hopeful successors.
 
Bearcat1982 said:
im not the most seasoned hunter or gun enthusiast but I have seen calibers come and go. While the 30-30s, 30-06's keep on chugging. and inside 300 yards maybe farther depending on the round do pretty much the same thing as their respective hopeful successors.
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Nothing wrong with new cartridges, but I feel like you do. The classics are what I like to use as well (308, 30-06, 270 Win, etc)

The 243, I think, is among those classics. It’s pretty commonly used and been around since the 1950’s. Don’t think it’s going anywhere for the foreseeable
 
We are talking kid guns here. Lots of fine examples but the OP sounds like a common father. Maybe budget minded. Didn't say he is a reloader. So if it's on Wal-Mart's shelf might be helpful. Axis on sale, American on sale in youth size in a common caliber would be simpler. We are reading good opinions here that might give him something to read up on.
 
for a new shooter/hunter, .357 - if you want to make practice and training easier, load it with .38 Special for target practice, shoot all day, no recoil. as a reference point, a deer load .357 that is a serious factory round, will punch like a weak 30-30. so, it is limited, but people who know what they are doing have no problem taking deer with it.

a box of 50 .38 Special might run you $25, but if you just go out and shoot say 10 on a practice trip, that's 5 trips, or $5 a pop. Ammo can get pricey, I'd consider that up front if cost is fixed.
 
horsey300 said:
Where are you hunting (this helps with legalities)? Do you handload? And what do you think the .243 will do that the arc can't at 100 yds or less? I've taught quite a few new shooters/hunters, some of their kids, and all 4 of my kids(how to shoot, the oldest 2 hunt and the youngest probably will too). Where we live/hunt anything starting at (appropriately loaded) .223 on up is legal, and most times plenty. Extremely curious about your disagreement with the ARC as it's about perfect for a deer round. A 100 gr anything at 2600-2700 with 30ish gr of powder? Out of a 7.5 lb rifle, that's very mild recoil (on par with a .22-250, also another good choice) and plenty enough horsepower for Bambi.
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Welcome questions. Post 15 answers one. What's the cost of ARC ammo and how common is that. He didn't say he's a reloader. I didn't mention it won't work. But it does remind me of my " power of a .308 in an AR" 30 AR. I got years ago. Common caliber kid guns info is what I think OP is investigating.
 
film495 said:
for a new shooter/hunter, .357 - if you want to make practice and training easier, load it with .38 Special for target practice, shoot all day, no recoil. as a reference point, a deer load .357 that is a serious factory round, will punch like a weak 30-30. so, it is limited, but people who know what they are doing have no problem taking deer with it.

a box of 50 .38 Special might run you $25, but if you just go out and shoot say 10 on a practice trip, that's 5 trips, or $5 a pop. Ammo can get pricey, I'd consider that up front if cost is fixed.
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That's a fine choise but you mentioned people. You must have ment little people
 
Bearcat1982 said:
shots inside 100 yards deer hunting. These are the 3 calibers I'm thinking of starting off my kids with. For conversation seeing if anyone has any thoughts. CVA 44 mag is what im thinking with a 3-9 scope. I have a few more years but I'm thinking of getting a head start.
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Your simple question has been more fun than a barrel of monkeys.
 
For the last 12 years, I have a Mossberg 800a in .308, Marlin 336 Stainless .30-30, and my latest purchase a PSA PA10 .308. .30-30 is a fine cartridge, does well out to 200 yards, maybe 250. Recoil is noticeable with 160gr Leverevolution and normal 150gr soft point Federal Powershok.

On paper, .357 magnum out of a lever action rifle, will be a bit less than .30-30. If adding a scope to the rifle, make sure it have the provisions already there for the mount. Either already drilled and tapped, or at most a weaver or picatinny rail. Most that are on the market are copies of the 1892 Winchester which was top ejection, not side ejection. Used market side ejection or new will be about $1000. If you are not going with a scope and choosing to teach with iron sights, a Rossi 92 would be a good start. MSRP is about $850, store price might be less.
 
The rifle needs to fit, otherwise it will suck and the experience shooting it will too. Some kids will love shooting anything you let them and will easily overcome even a misfit rifle, but others will be totally turned off. Either way, it's better if it fits. What are you going to do about the length of pull? If you shorten the LoP, how are you going to get the eye relief to work for the scope?

How have they learned to shoot? What do they use? A deer rifle is not the best rifle to learn to shoot with because the ammo, even cheaper target ammo, is usually expensive compared to air rifles and rimfire (22LR and 17HMR). While the .22LR is a pretty popular and traditional option, unless you can afford a suppressor, a good air rifle is far better.
 
stringnut said:
Are you sure you don’t want a new rifle ? Worked great for my buddy until the kids were old enough to shoot and he bought additional firearms for them.
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Show Me said:
Don't forget for kids too
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Exactly why I picked the 3 for getting them hunting. I'd prefer their first hunting rifles not be a new caliber. For the intents and purpose of this conversation, theres going to be 357 and 44 and probably .243 guns and ammo made for a very long time. I think that gives the rifle it self more of a chance to be usable without hand loading as they get older and potentially even handed down and used with ammo off a shelf. what the firearm and hunting landscape will look like then is anyones guess of course.
But I have a feeling some of these new calibers will be long forgotten. The arc on paper looks great as does many others like the 6.8 western, the PRCs and Creedmors, I personally thought the .338 federal was a great idea. IMHO the 300 win mag is probably not going anywhere. But the 300 PRC as impressive as it is maybe forgotten once another eek's out slightly less drop at 1500 yards.
 
I understand your desire to stick with the classics, and more power to you. The calculus changes for a hand loader, though. My oddball cartridges include .243 Ackley and .260 Ackley. I have plenty of brass for both at this point, and if it became absolutely necessary, I could form brass for both from .308 cases. If by "forgotten" you mean the manufacturers will abandon it, it's possible. But those of us who hand load worry little about this.
 
Legionnaire said:
I understand your desire to stick with the classics, and more power to you. The calculus changes for a hand loader, though. My oddball cartridges include .243 Ackley and .260 Ackley. I have plenty of brass for both at this point, and if it became absolutely necessary, I could form brass for both from .308 cases. If by "forgotten" you mean the manufacturers will abandon it, it's possible. But those of us who hand load worry little about this.
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Excellent. Now what's this got to do with a dad asking about a first deer rifle. Interesting. Now since you made mention which bass pro has my 30 AR brass. Just saying
 
Not commenting on the first deer rifle. Already offered my support for the .243 Win. However, the OP invited the additional comment with his speculation that some of the newer cartridges might be "forgotten." 'Nuff said.
 
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I started out with a Remington 660 .243, still my favorite to this day. Not much recoil, beyond accurate enough for deer, ammo choices are plenty, well given today’s circumstances, something appropriate can be found.

How one fits is beyond important though, your kids may like the fit of a lever better than a bolt. My son loves the 1892 better than anything, i despise holding it.

Along with fit of the rifle, practice, practice, practice. Curb any bad habits early.
 
They will all work, but accuracy trumps everything else. The 243 wins for me. It is probably as near a perfect deer cartridge as has ever been made. Less recoil than 44 mag and about the same as 357. That can vary some depending on the exact rifles chosen.

The 6.5CM is here to stay, in fact the 243 is in more danger of becoming obsolete at this point. And while the 243 is more than adequate I'd personally choose the 6.5. Recoil is virtually the same, factory ammo is much more readily available and cheaper. It's not just a youth gun, nor just a deer cartridge. A kid could start with one and use it for life on anything in the lower 48.
 
Bearcat1982 said:
shots inside 100 yards deer hunting. These are the 3 calibers I'm thinking of starting off my kids with. For conversation seeing if anyone has any thoughts. CVA 44 mag is what im thinking with a 3-9 scope. I have a few more years but I'm thinking of getting a head start.
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I would strongly suggest the .350 Legend for new youth hunters. I have been very impressed with the effectiveness on deer and the light recoil while still having decent ballistics out to an easy 150 yards
 
stringnut said:
Are you sure you don’t want a new rifle ? Worked great for my buddy until the kids were old enough to shoot and he bought additional firearms for them.

Anyway , any of the 3, will do the trick. My personal opinion is the 243. The 357 will have the lightest recoil. The 44 and 243 will seem about the same. All will take deer at 100 yards. However the pistol cartridges will always be short range tools. Sighted 2 inches high at 100 yards the are dead on to a little low at 125. At 150 they are quite low. Also expansion starts to fall off around 100yards +- a bit. At close range , depending on the bullet, the pistol cartridges will expand like crazy and may not pass thru.

The 243, with most bullets designed for deer, will pass thru most of time. Sectional density of a 100 grain 243 is on par with a 165 grain 30 caliber bullet. It is about the same velocity as a 308, or, 30/06. You rarely hear anyone complaining about lack of penetration with either of those.
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Ever got the bright idea to purchase a new firearm for your wife and get accused of buying it for your self.
 
Nature Boy said:
That’s now, but what about in the years to come?

.243

Much more versatile
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When they get more opportunities they'll have my rifles available. And at that point we can start looking for something else as well. I'm usually in areas we used to hunt with slug guns before rifles became legal. And was never an issue. I'm settling in on the 44's.... Alot of great ideas and thoughts on it. Not really a wrong answer either. I appreciate all the replies.
 
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