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Bearcat1982
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I appreciate the suggestion. Imho The straight walled cartridges fill a niche in states that require it. Instead of 350 or 450 legend I'd probably spring for a 30-30's though.
rifle for new youth hunter, .357 mag, 44 mag or 243.
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d2wing
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I put a youth stock on a 243 bolt action and my grandson loves it. He kills everything he sees and range isn't a problem. Sub MOA, low recoil, powerful and very accurate. Way more than a pistol cartridge. I have started kids with lots of different guns. 243 bolt actions fit the bill really well. The others are a handicap.
crestoncowboy
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That's my choice for my girl.
The 243 will never be "obsolete". I have no use for it BUT I can go to Walmart and buy 300 savage and 257 Robert's. Rounds that are used by about 2 people today. The 243 is MASSIVE comparatively. Lol
That's my girls 243. Weatherby compact. She is 14 and 120 lb and handles it fine. Ive taken many deer with 44 and 10mm handguns. Id go with the 243 anytime for a kid
earlthegoat2
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I am very biased toward larger bores so my opinions are usually unpopular in these modern times.
Also, my first deer gun was an adult sized 12 ga pump shooting slugs so many folks would say I have a very twisted view of what constitutes a good gun for a younger person.
Having said that, for your exact situation you laid out, 44 mag. It just works for those shorter ranges. IMO, It is the best option of the three. I have taken many animals with a 44 mag rifle without the barest hint of drama at ranges out to just past 100. Good accuracy and lots of bleed out or DRT.
Other things considered…the 243 is probably a better choice longer term. My experience with it on deer however is somewhat disappointing from my perspective. Less and slower bleed out NOT many bullet pass throughs. IMO, a premium bullet should be selected to maximize its effectiveness.
As to 357…I have nothing to mention.
Also, my first deer gun was an adult sized 12 ga pump shooting slugs so many folks would say I have a very twisted view of what constitutes a good gun for a younger person.
Having said that, for your exact situation you laid out, 44 mag. It just works for those shorter ranges. IMO, It is the best option of the three. I have taken many animals with a 44 mag rifle without the barest hint of drama at ranges out to just past 100. Good accuracy and lots of bleed out or DRT.
Other things considered…the 243 is probably a better choice longer term. My experience with it on deer however is somewhat disappointing from my perspective. Less and slower bleed out NOT many bullet pass throughs. IMO, a premium bullet should be selected to maximize its effectiveness.
As to 357…I have nothing to mention.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Not sure about the .243's versatility. It has a very narrow range of application. More range, yes. Varmints and deer with premium bullets is about it. I don't care for the .30-06 but no one can doubt that it actually is versatile.
People seem to think it's a less capable cartridge but the .44Mag can be loaded for everything from mice to moose and beyond. It's taken all of the African Big Six, out of a handgun. The CVA is an extremely strong action, plenty enough for 50,000psi handloads. My own 330gr and 355gr loads utilizing the lower crimp groove and all available powder space run 1450fps and 1350fps respectively, out of a revolver. Add 300fps for a rifle and you have a 150yd rifle that will hammer anything. Without having to worry about missing the shoulder.
People seem to think it's a less capable cartridge but the .44Mag can be loaded for everything from mice to moose and beyond. It's taken all of the African Big Six, out of a handgun. The CVA is an extremely strong action, plenty enough for 50,000psi handloads. My own 330gr and 355gr loads utilizing the lower crimp groove and all available powder space run 1450fps and 1350fps respectively, out of a revolver. Add 300fps for a rifle and you have a 150yd rifle that will hammer anything. Without having to worry about missing the shoulder.
Simple enough then, .243 .30-30, .22-250 (ruger american), and not necessarily in that order, honestly the .22-250 with deer loads (yes can be found just fine on the shelf) is a great starting cartridge, didn't used to be with slow twists, but now with faster twists(savage 1:12, ruger 1:10, bergara 1:8 iirc)and better bullets, it's no slouch, and considerably less recoil than the .243, which is key, because the more the little ones WANT to shoot it, the more they WILL shoot it, and the more comfortable they'll be. I throw in the .3030 because, while I'm fairly decent sized now, when I was first hunting deer as a youngster ages 12-14, the push of the .3030 was preferred to the kick of the .243, they both have the same recoil energy, but the .243 was snappier, confused my dad all to heck that I kept picking up grandpa's Winchester or Marlin (336) leverguns, and I would have taken a Savage 340 or m99 in .3030 too, over his mean lil .243, but I almost ran us out of ammo practicing with those guns several times and never once had to trail a deer. If you do go with .243 and don't handload try and find some custom lite loads to start them with, it makes a difference. The Grendel should still be on the list as it's now been around long enough and successful enough with quite a few deer capable loads that questioning how long it will be around for is akin to wondering if the 6.5 cm will out last the .260 rem. Another cartridge not yet mentioned but definitely worth noting is the 7.62x39. And also the .300 BO. Both are mild recoiling very capable cartridges with the right loads and will be available off the shelf for a long time.
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Bearcat1982
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Yeah I've shot deer with both a revolver and a rifle in 44. Within its reach its absolutely deadly. And for wooded areas a 44 could serve a young person well for a lifetime. No bad choices again. lucky to have choices. Good problems.
FL-NC
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I would definitely pick 243. Easy on a smaller shooter, but not a caliber he/she would really "grow out of"- although the stock may need to be replaced as the kid gets bigger. I still regularly take deer with mine.
crestoncowboy
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I'm definitely in the "44 is a handgun round" category. I've used it and never had an issue on deer. I do have a couple lever guns but never considered them for hunting. Given the weight and bulk ill take a 257 any day. My first hunting trip was with a borrowed 300 savage at around 10-12 years old. Got my own first rifle when I gave a buddy 400 bucks for his 700 mountain rifle in 257 because he wanted the trendy 7mm stw in a new syndero. He was in a speed kills phase. Lol. Man that stw was loud. Had a crack instead of a boom. Lol.
He actualy caused me to go through a "speed" phase. I got a 7mm rum. A 257 wby, 220 swift, 223 wssm.... lol. All fine guns but I ended up at a "mild" 300 mag load for years and this year went back to my little 257 Robert's mountain rifle. Lol.
Id have never got a 243 but the daughter decided to deer hunt last year. Buddy had the wby vanguard compact I showed above and I got it for her. Traded a 269 dollar (my cost , it was valued more now) handgun for it. I put it right with the other intermediates. Plenty for NC mountain whitetail. I picked up 100 rds of norma whitetail ammo and supplies to reload but haven't reloaded yet. Shoots an inch at 100 with her shooting it.
The vanguard compact cones with a spacer you can remove on the stock. I believe it's a 20 inch barrel. Heavier than you might guess but not heavy by any stretch
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Chuck R.
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Another vote for .243Win.
Mostly due to the increased range and the utility down the road for varmints. I like having short range cartridges and rifle set up for "woods" distances, but even then I like the ability to stretch it if I have to. I'd hate to have a kid see a decent buck at 150 -200 or so and have to say it's out of range, or too much risk.
Mostly due to the increased range and the utility down the road for varmints. I like having short range cartridges and rifle set up for "woods" distances, but even then I like the ability to stretch it if I have to. I'd hate to have a kid see a decent buck at 150 -200 or so and have to say it's out of range, or too much risk.
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I like my CVA 44 mag Scout. Dropped my buck at 68 yards with a 240 grain JHP and 21.5 grains of 2400 (that I loaded in 2004)
brewer12345
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I don't have a lot of recoil tolerance, so I gravitate towards the typical youth cartridges and other modest recoiling options when I can get away with it. If we are only talking about 100 yards or so of range, I would point you toward 35 Rem as being a LOT more capable than 357 with very modest recoil. Since both the guns and ammo/components are increasingly rare, I'd suggest 350 Legend. Not a classic, but readily available, cheap, and you can even load cast or download in a bolt or single shot. If you insist on a legacy cratridge that is more available, 30-30 is an otion, but I suspect it is going the way of the dodo over time and I was quite surprised with the aount of muzzle blast an otherwise low recoil cartridge has when my buddy was shooting his last summer.
If you were thinking about longer ranges, I would suggest a 6.5 Grendel. This is what I will hunt to the age of infirmity with given its phenomenal accuracy, negligible recoil, and impressive terminal performance. Another non-classic, but at least this one's been around for 20 or so years and has a hardcore fan base. The popularity of 6.5 ManBunn (creedmore) has helped a lot with component availability if you reload.
Of the 3 you list, I'd go with the 243. 357 doesn't have much margin of error for new shooters. 44 can be a bit of a thumper depending on the rifle and load.
If you were thinking about longer ranges, I would suggest a 6.5 Grendel. This is what I will hunt to the age of infirmity with given its phenomenal accuracy, negligible recoil, and impressive terminal performance. Another non-classic, but at least this one's been around for 20 or so years and has a hardcore fan base. The popularity of 6.5 ManBunn (creedmore) has helped a lot with component availability if you reload.
Of the 3 you list, I'd go with the 243. 357 doesn't have much margin of error for new shooters. 44 can be a bit of a thumper depending on the rifle and load.
maxxhavoc
Member
I'm at the end of the same road with a nephew who is now a young adult. If you want them to be excited about it, go for an intermediate cartridge available in an AR. Doesn't have to be an AR, but if they can't see at least 100 people shooting cool guns in the caliber on youtube, their interest will wane more quickly. I would HIGHLY recommend 300 Blackout. With a threaded barrel.
Calibers that can't be had in an AR aren't "cool" on YouTube. Therefore they are for "grandpas." If you want an older cartridge, look at 7.62x39. My nephew has a perfectly good 270 that he has never had a problem shooting. Until he was able to buy his own stuff, he got many deer with it. Now he hunts with an AR pistol or an AK...both with red dots. The 270 is better in every way that matters, except it is not cool. He doesn't even take it out of the closet anymore.
I would say get a Ruger American Ranch in 300 Blackout, 350 Legend, or 7.62x39, in that order. Ones that can use AR mags preferably....Magpul is "cool."
Just another viewpoint.
Calibers that can't be had in an AR aren't "cool" on YouTube. Therefore they are for "grandpas." If you want an older cartridge, look at 7.62x39. My nephew has a perfectly good 270 that he has never had a problem shooting. Until he was able to buy his own stuff, he got many deer with it. Now he hunts with an AR pistol or an AK...both with red dots. The 270 is better in every way that matters, except it is not cool. He doesn't even take it out of the closet anymore.
I would say get a Ruger American Ranch in 300 Blackout, 350 Legend, or 7.62x39, in that order. Ones that can use AR mags preferably....Magpul is "cool."
Just another viewpoint.
brewer12345
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Hard to go wrong with a ranch or simply a Ruger American.
I run plenty of heavier recoil rifles, (used to include .300 wm) 7 stw, 300rum, (my brother's) .338wm, (r1) .270wsm, 2 different .30-06's, 2 .308s, many shotguns from .410-12ga, and the list could go on further but I think the idea is illustrated.... in 14 years of killing deer/pronghorn, I have yet to see any cartridge that does the job better if you put more recoil than a .22-250-.243 (appropriately loaded) on the receiving end. There's efficiency, and then there's diminishing returns. Those recommendations are pretty spot on!
The .270 (factory loaded) loses coolness points in recoil and at with 130s <100yds
..357 will have low recoil and you can have them practice with .38 special. However the gun will be "range limited" and shot placement will be critical. Maybe not best for a beginner for hunting but a nice choice for plinking.
A .223 is also low recoil, and with the right ammo/bullet is capable. Also doubles as a varmint/predator, HD gun down the road. However .22 caliber isn't legal for deer in some states. If legal in your area, it can be a gun the serves them well for a long time.
The .243 in lighter grain offerings isn't much more recoil. As they get older, and can handle more recoil, ammo can be chosen accordingly. It can be a "lifetime" gun if a wise choice is made at purchase. The .243 is a proven capable whitetail deer round despite what some may say. Ammo like Barnes makes it even more so.
Not mentioned by you, but the 7.62 X 39mm (as well as .300 blackout), are options worth looking at. At moderate ranges they could offer more margin for error. Again a cartridge choice that could be usable for a lifetime, if you can find a rifle that can fit now and later.
A hard no on .44 mag. It kicks more than a 30-30 and doesn't have near the range.
A .223 is also low recoil, and with the right ammo/bullet is capable. Also doubles as a varmint/predator, HD gun down the road. However .22 caliber isn't legal for deer in some states. If legal in your area, it can be a gun the serves them well for a long time.
The .243 in lighter grain offerings isn't much more recoil. As they get older, and can handle more recoil, ammo can be chosen accordingly. It can be a "lifetime" gun if a wise choice is made at purchase. The .243 is a proven capable whitetail deer round despite what some may say. Ammo like Barnes makes it even more so.
Not mentioned by you, but the 7.62 X 39mm (as well as .300 blackout), are options worth looking at. At moderate ranges they could offer more margin for error. Again a cartridge choice that could be usable for a lifetime, if you can find a rifle that can fit now and later.
A hard no on .44 mag. It kicks more than a 30-30 and doesn't have near the range.
I have a .30-30 and it has more recoil than the .350 Legend and is typically not as accurate in the lever guns that it is chambered in. Just my 2 cents
westernrover
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My late-teen boys aren't really big fans of the cool black guns or anything, but they like tech. I definitely had to forsake my own taste for their sake (I'm a revolver and wood stock guy whose chamberings date from the first half of the 20th century). First deer rifle was a bolt-action Grendel. Next was a black Benelli Lupo in 6.5 Creedmoor. Polymer stocks, Cerrokote, matte optics, tacticool. 100% 21st Century. I was going to buy them AR's or at least lowers and have them build them, but then 2020 happened. More recently, it's become practical again but they haven't really shown interest in guns -- hunting yes, they're totally into hunting, but they're very practical and not passionate about guns at all. I guess that's cool. Maybe I should envy them.
P Flados
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The 357 break open has a huge edge if there is going to be more than minimal shooting at non-furry stuff or small furry stuff (rabbits etc.). Starting a kid out with 38s is cheap, non-scary and just plain fun. A 357 mag is pretty easy to upgrade to a 357 Max or 360 BH if the gun is liked, but the need for a little more range comes into the picture. The upgrade possibilities also help them sell good if you want to move on to something else.
If it is going to be used almost exclusively for hunting, the 243 has an edge in range than can make it suitable for more years of use.
The 44 is more appropriate in the situation of an existing hunter with a special need or desire.
If it is going to be used almost exclusively for hunting, the 243 has an edge in range than can make it suitable for more years of use.
The 44 is more appropriate in the situation of an existing hunter with a special need or desire.
This is definitely demographic specific! I like the nuances, when we were kids, a .38 was out of the question unless out of dad's .357, and no handloads available, .22's(lr, sr, short, and wmr), shotguns, bbguns, and the slowest moving centerfire .30 centerfire cartridges were our furry getters(.30-30, .300Sav, and .30-40krag). I've heard of folks using .38sp, but have never seen it in person out here (though, in my late teens did do a number on a couple coyotes and rabbits with a 9mm carbine)....
P Flados
Member
I did not mean that 38s would get a lot of hunting use. They will work for small game, and long ago I did use 38s for this but it was from a 10" Contender.
For someone that does not reload, use of 38s allows a new shooter the opportunity to burn a lot more ammo if desired without running up a big ammo bill. It also gets them shooting their "hunting gun" with very low recoil and muzzle blast. Then when they get comfortable, switching to magnum ammo for a small amount of range shooting will have them ready to go out in the field with confidence.
dranrab
Member
We are pretty deep into this thread and unless I missed it, we haven't determined what size youth we are talking about. A 12-14 year old kid can be closer to adult proportions than to child proportions. The size matters because the fit of the gun is a greater consideration than the chambering. If the shooter is child size, get a gun with a child size stock. Putting a small child on an adult proportioned gun is setting them up for failure. They have a hard time getting set up behind the scope and the gun wil often ride too far out onto the shoulder bicep area. A CVA 44 magnum will kick pretty good. I would advise against it for a new shooter. I'd also recommend a scope with generous eye relief and eye box. Where a 223 is legal, I strongly recommend it for a new shooter deer gun. While a 243 doesn't kick much, it has considerably more muzzle blast than a 223.
