30Cal
Member
Without a supply chain, I would drop anything with a detachable magazine. They're things that get lost or damaged. I'd go with a bolt or lever action.
Roughest, toughest, durable rifle ever built?
- Thread starter armoredman
- Start date
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"If you're trying to out-snipe a sniper @ 500 yds."
With a 7.62x39??? Not to say it will never happen, but your chances are slim to the point of being foolish.
You are trying to do this against a PLATOON of soldiers? That is 48 men! You just gave away your position, and your chances of hitting a walking man 500 yards away in a 10 mph wind is not very good at all.
For me in that situation, I'm going to be moving out or making myself extremely small to avoid detection.
My weapon of choice would be a Rem 700 or Win M70. If it has to be a proven military caliber, make mine a 308 or 30-06 please.
1000 rounds? Nobody humps that kind of weight, unless they are an AG or something. How do you expect to move any kind of distance with that load plus your other necessary supplies?
If this is a simple survival situation and its just me, I am not going to be hunting large game-I'll never eat it all and it will only attract predators. Small game with FMJ's would suffice, and 223 or even 22 LR would do nicely.
If there are people hunting me, I certainly am not going to fire a weapon and give them any indication that I am in the area, given any kind of a choice. Not even with my VS in 308 which holds half minute groups at a measured 200 yards, unless it is only one man stalking me.
If I can get close enough to a group hunting me, I'd rather kill on and take his rifle/ammo as silently as I could. That way, anyone trying to catch me has the opportunity to haul my ammo for me.
With a 7.62x39??? Not to say it will never happen, but your chances are slim to the point of being foolish.
You are trying to do this against a PLATOON of soldiers? That is 48 men! You just gave away your position, and your chances of hitting a walking man 500 yards away in a 10 mph wind is not very good at all.
For me in that situation, I'm going to be moving out or making myself extremely small to avoid detection.
My weapon of choice would be a Rem 700 or Win M70. If it has to be a proven military caliber, make mine a 308 or 30-06 please.
1000 rounds? Nobody humps that kind of weight, unless they are an AG or something. How do you expect to move any kind of distance with that load plus your other necessary supplies?
If this is a simple survival situation and its just me, I am not going to be hunting large game-I'll never eat it all and it will only attract predators. Small game with FMJ's would suffice, and 223 or even 22 LR would do nicely.
If there are people hunting me, I certainly am not going to fire a weapon and give them any indication that I am in the area, given any kind of a choice. Not even with my VS in 308 which holds half minute groups at a measured 200 yards, unless it is only one man stalking me.
If I can get close enough to a group hunting me, I'd rather kill on and take his rifle/ammo as silently as I could. That way, anyone trying to catch me has the opportunity to haul my ammo for me.
M110
Member
Heres a pic.
KaceCoyote I replied to your PM.
KaceCoyote I replied to your PM.
Does anyone frequenting this forum own and use one of those a10-a2 rifles, and care to give a range report on it? I saw that same rifle once before and was curious. If you've used yours M110, I'd like to hear about it, but PM might be better.
Looks like it has the portability (small, not light, 8.3 lbs) factor going for it, maybe it's durable (it's not surplus, it's 'brand new'). I hear even SKS guys have random success driving tacks at 100 yards with 7.62X39.
But armoredman raised a good point. If the SHTF and you're scrounging in a post apocalyptic situation, you might not have a choice of ammo. What weapon do you choose? The one that offers the most available in your area prior to the event?
.22LR!
If you were in Eastern Europe, whatever they have in abundance over there. If you're in the Middle East, maybe it's something different. I don't know. If you're Mad Max beyond Thunderdome, lots of fuel (he never had much luck with firearms . . .)
It might be better to have what you can reload. Powder might be more available than factory-made cartridges, and you could customize your shots if you had skill. Want that .30-30 to kill and eat a rabbit one day? Roll a 110 grain bullet and smaller powder charge. Want to bust some bear chops that have been eating your scrawny, radioactive, mutant dogs? Roll a .44 Magnum with a 270 grain bullet and wait in the doghouse for him.
Hard to tell in a situation like that without considering the area first. If it was in California, the thing I'd want most is a universal key for all the gun locks.
One person in the thread mentioned a shotgun, and that totally slipped my mind. Excellent choice. .410, 20, 16, 12 gauge, with a few oddballs, a couple of different lengths, plenty of that lying around, and it's not even locked up in the stores behind a sales counter (post-apocalyptically thinking, of course). Shotguns and their shells would be plentiful, even in other countries I imagine. 12 gauge will take some large game with slugs at short ranges, medium to small game with different loads and chokes. Shotguns are a proven 'manstopper' at short ranges, and wound at longer ranges (no ambulance, so your target can pick the buckshot out himself). They make durable (marine) versions, "combat" shotguns, tube fed for sustained rate of fire, oh it gets better sounding all the time! Shotguns are as cheap and common as you'll find, I imagine. Find a single shot or other type lying around, your ammo probably feeds and fires. It's not romantic, but neither is the prospect of wiping your butt with leaves and grass for months on end. I'd rather scavenge toilet paper!
jmm
Looks like it has the portability (small, not light, 8.3 lbs) factor going for it, maybe it's durable (it's not surplus, it's 'brand new'). I hear even SKS guys have random success driving tacks at 100 yards with 7.62X39.
But armoredman raised a good point. If the SHTF and you're scrounging in a post apocalyptic situation, you might not have a choice of ammo. What weapon do you choose? The one that offers the most available in your area prior to the event?
.22LR!
If you were in Eastern Europe, whatever they have in abundance over there. If you're in the Middle East, maybe it's something different. I don't know. If you're Mad Max beyond Thunderdome, lots of fuel (he never had much luck with firearms . . .)
It might be better to have what you can reload. Powder might be more available than factory-made cartridges, and you could customize your shots if you had skill. Want that .30-30 to kill and eat a rabbit one day? Roll a 110 grain bullet and smaller powder charge. Want to bust some bear chops that have been eating your scrawny, radioactive, mutant dogs? Roll a .44 Magnum with a 270 grain bullet and wait in the doghouse for him.
Hard to tell in a situation like that without considering the area first. If it was in California, the thing I'd want most is a universal key for all the gun locks.
One person in the thread mentioned a shotgun, and that totally slipped my mind. Excellent choice. .410, 20, 16, 12 gauge, with a few oddballs, a couple of different lengths, plenty of that lying around, and it's not even locked up in the stores behind a sales counter (post-apocalyptically thinking, of course). Shotguns and their shells would be plentiful, even in other countries I imagine. 12 gauge will take some large game with slugs at short ranges, medium to small game with different loads and chokes. Shotguns are a proven 'manstopper' at short ranges, and wound at longer ranges (no ambulance, so your target can pick the buckshot out himself). They make durable (marine) versions, "combat" shotguns, tube fed for sustained rate of fire, oh it gets better sounding all the time! Shotguns are as cheap and common as you'll find, I imagine. Find a single shot or other type lying around, your ammo probably feeds and fires. It's not romantic, but neither is the prospect of wiping your butt with leaves and grass for months on end. I'd rather scavenge toilet paper!
jmm
" the thing I'd want most is a universal key for all the gun locks."
We carry a piece of equipment on the fire truck that we call a universal key.
A pair of bolt cutters.
You gotta be eating to worry about toilet paper.
You know what they call a guy in a survival situation that has a bowel movement ?
A show off.
We carry a piece of equipment on the fire truck that we call a universal key.
A pair of bolt cutters.
You gotta be eating to worry about toilet paper.
You know what they call a guy in a survival situation that has a bowel movement ?
A show off.
Gentleman Jackson
Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 8
hello first post
okay I will admit I am a dyed in the wool No 4 fan would take the one in .308 with the M-14 mags just cause
okay I will admit I am a dyed in the wool No 4 fan would take the one in .308 with the M-14 mags just cause
berettashotgun
Member
- Joined
- May 8, 2005
- Messages
- 1,149
A ruger #3 in 243 OR 7 mauser is as reliable as they get and will kill darn near everything in the 7mm mauser, oh yeah- it ALREADY has. The ammo is in the overpowered spectrum for my definiton of survival but a 22 mag in my win pump is pretty usefull in most senarios I imagine me needing to survive. I'm thinking a bolt 22wrm from savage needs to be part of my stuff right now, man this conversation answered a question that hasn't been asked.I need a new gun- thanks guys- I really mean it
OP
OP
armoredman
Member
I like Enfields....never fired one, but the one in 7.62x39mm looks very very cool....
Forgive me, I have not read all the replies, but to throw my opinion into the ring,,,,,,,
The Model 91 Mosin Nagant is about as truck strong, and stupid simple, as a repeating rifle can be made that will still shoot accurately.
The Model 91 Mosin Nagant is about as truck strong, and stupid simple, as a repeating rifle can be made that will still shoot accurately.
OP
OP
armoredman
Member
THAT I have covered....
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beerslurpy
member
The only downside to the AK is the limited range, but it definitely has the power to knock down man and beast out to 300 yards. And sufficient accuracy to hit if you bother to raise the gun to your shoulder.
Its the only semiauto that has never failed me at all and I have put more rounds through it than every gun except the old ruger 10/22 that I had.
Ammo is relatively lightweight, plentiful and cheap. I keep about a thousand rounds handy in the garage, plus a few hundred in magazines. It is a great weapon system and will not be beaten for a long time. The only type of gun that the AK comes up short against is the long range, full power bolt action- and generally speaking I wouldnt worry about fighting people beyond 300 yards unless you do something like stand out in the open and shoot at people to advertise that you are an enemy.
The key word to me is survival, not victory. The AK comes out ahead in nearly all situations where you are merely trying to deal with the braver goblins rather than trying to project force and take objectives from them.
Its the only semiauto that has never failed me at all and I have put more rounds through it than every gun except the old ruger 10/22 that I had.
Ammo is relatively lightweight, plentiful and cheap. I keep about a thousand rounds handy in the garage, plus a few hundred in magazines. It is a great weapon system and will not be beaten for a long time. The only type of gun that the AK comes up short against is the long range, full power bolt action- and generally speaking I wouldnt worry about fighting people beyond 300 yards unless you do something like stand out in the open and shoot at people to advertise that you are an enemy.
The key word to me is survival, not victory. The AK comes out ahead in nearly all situations where you are merely trying to deal with the braver goblins rather than trying to project force and take objectives from them.
The_Antibubba
Member
Enfield-Nagant?
I have heard that the Enfield in .303 can be rechambered for 7.62 X 54R. Has anyone done this? This seems like a good combination.
I have heard that the Enfield in .303 can be rechambered for 7.62 X 54R. Has anyone done this? This seems like a good combination.
dogngun
Member
I'd go with my Savage bolt .243.
(Got it and it's ammo from Walmart, for what it's worth.)
If I could have 2, I'd also take my old Rossi 16" levergun in .357mag/.38spl.
Then, I'd have to bring my Model 19 Smith .357 to go with the Rossi.
But I think I'm getting too old and tired to carry all that stuff around.
Mark
(Got it and it's ammo from Walmart, for what it's worth.)
If I could have 2, I'd also take my old Rossi 16" levergun in .357mag/.38spl.
Then, I'd have to bring my Model 19 Smith .357 to go with the Rossi.
But I think I'm getting too old and tired to carry all that stuff around.
Mark
What the...
Whoa, it moved...I thought this thread died a long time ago.
Okay, I'll stir up a hornet's nest;
Sorry armoredman, I think I would typically choose not to answer (which I did choose not to answer weeks ago), but since everybody has totally blown the ten rules you dictated way out of proportion, and you've already made your choice I'll go one step further. My choice would be:
Not a rifle. I would take a 1911, Springfield GI, with five loaded mags, a .22 upper kit with five mags, reloading supplies and only 500 rounds of .22 ammo. Oh yeah, and also a .45ACP and .22 suppressor.
All you other guys willing to pack 1000 rounds of even 5.56 or 5.45 are nuts. I'd predict by day three you'd drop all but a 100 rounds, especially if you haven't eaten those couple days.
To meet your requirements of skulking/hunting, battle avoidance this would be my setup. If this is too much money you can cut this and I'll take a Ruger .22 with a can. That should get you into the range of $400-$500 if you build the suppressor yourself, legally.
Okay guys, what do you think of them apples?
Whoa, it moved...I thought this thread died a long time ago.
Okay, I'll stir up a hornet's nest;
Sorry armoredman, I think I would typically choose not to answer (which I did choose not to answer weeks ago), but since everybody has totally blown the ten rules you dictated way out of proportion, and you've already made your choice I'll go one step further. My choice would be:
Not a rifle. I would take a 1911, Springfield GI, with five loaded mags, a .22 upper kit with five mags, reloading supplies and only 500 rounds of .22 ammo. Oh yeah, and also a .45ACP and .22 suppressor.
All you other guys willing to pack 1000 rounds of even 5.56 or 5.45 are nuts. I'd predict by day three you'd drop all but a 100 rounds, especially if you haven't eaten those couple days.
To meet your requirements of skulking/hunting, battle avoidance this would be my setup. If this is too much money you can cut this and I'll take a Ruger .22 with a can. That should get you into the range of $400-$500 if you build the suppressor yourself, legally.
Okay guys, what do you think of them apples?
BerettaNut92
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Messages
- 9,723
Ruger Mini-14.
Thrash1982
Member
I'd think that an AK variant or FAL would do the trick. My thought on 7.62x54R ammo though for those suggesting Draganov clones or Mosins is that most, if not all, of the available surplus (not including current commercial production) is corrosive. If cleaning tools and supplies are not available then this could be problematic.
Anyway, back to the AK/FAL.
AK Drawbacks:
Not as accurate at longer ranges
Round may not be powerful enough for certain game animals
No ammo availability at Wallyworld
AK Advantages:
Proven reliability
Lighter weight than FAL
Parts are common
Inexpensive surplus ammo
FAL Drawbacks:
Durn things heavy
Parts may not be as easily found
Did I mention heavy?
FAL Advantages:
Proven reliability
Ammo can be found at Walmart
Cheap magazines
Lots of surplus .308 as well
More accurate at longer ranges
Anyway, back to the AK/FAL.
AK Drawbacks:
Not as accurate at longer ranges
Round may not be powerful enough for certain game animals
No ammo availability at Wallyworld
AK Advantages:
Proven reliability
Lighter weight than FAL
Parts are common
Inexpensive surplus ammo
FAL Drawbacks:
Durn things heavy
Parts may not be as easily found
Did I mention heavy?
FAL Advantages:
Proven reliability
Ammo can be found at Walmart
Cheap magazines
Lots of surplus .308 as well
More accurate at longer ranges
AStone
Member
Bump this puppy
I just read all 5 pages of this thread, the last post of which was in May, '05.
Come on, folks. This is a classic SHTF/TEOTWAWKI/what-rifle-(or-shotgun)-do-i-want thead. There is much useful information & many good ideas in here. Don't let this one expire.
In addition to my Kahr K9, and/or a soon-to-be-acquired .357 revolver, & a trusty 870P, if I were to also carry a rifle for protein acquisition for the camp (rather than SD, which the .357 & 870 would take care of), then it would probably be one of the following (in current order of choice, which currently changes on a time scale from minutes to days):
Remington 7600P (quality carbine pump in a .308 with 16.5" brl)
Marlin 336 in 30-30 or .35 (I once owned a .35 336; was a fool to let it go)
Remington 700 in 30-06 (don't know about those bolt actions...)
There may be others; verdict on choice is still out...
According to my readings about peak oil & climate change, SHTF is on the way.
What's in your BOB?
Nem
I just read all 5 pages of this thread, the last post of which was in May, '05.
Come on, folks. This is a classic SHTF/TEOTWAWKI/what-rifle-(or-shotgun)-do-i-want thead. There is much useful information & many good ideas in here. Don't let this one expire.
In addition to my Kahr K9, and/or a soon-to-be-acquired .357 revolver, & a trusty 870P, if I were to also carry a rifle for protein acquisition for the camp (rather than SD, which the .357 & 870 would take care of), then it would probably be one of the following (in current order of choice, which currently changes on a time scale from minutes to days):
Remington 7600P (quality carbine pump in a .308 with 16.5" brl)
Marlin 336 in 30-30 or .35 (I once owned a .35 336; was a fool to let it go)
Remington 700 in 30-06 (don't know about those bolt actions...)
There may be others; verdict on choice is still out...
According to my readings about peak oil & climate change, SHTF is on the way.
What's in your BOB?
Nem
artherd
member
Hey I've got one of those, it rocks!
Odd...I find these threads in the past month...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=160720&highlight=1917
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=160799&highlight=1917
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=159956&highlight=1917
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=160015&highlight=1917
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=159368&highlight=1917
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=156724&highlight=1917
John
One advantage the .357 leverguns have over every other firearm mentioned in this thread (and I don't believe I've seen it mentioned, although this thread is so long I had to take a bathroom break while reading it. ) If you can't find .357 you can always shoot .38. Any other ammunition you can shoot out of the M1s, Lee Enfields, Mosins, AKs, SKSs, etc mentioned?
) If you can't find .357 you can always shoot .38. Any other ammunition you can shoot out of the M1s, Lee Enfields, Mosins, AKs, SKSs, etc mentioned?- Status
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