Rural King Ar15s

[KYregular]

So I stopped by Rural King for some feed and of course strolled by the gun section. An RK guy behind the gun counter was talking to a customer, the customer asks "is RK gonna get rid of those ar15?". The RK guy says I hope so, nobody needs that military rifle and the customer agrees. I could not let that go, had to say something. As talk went on the customer (who claims to be a gun guy) kept saying their to dangerous, to high of a velocity. Claiming 223 fmj will penetrate level 3 body armour because their "high velocity". He knows, he claims because his daughter whos a cop and told him so. I flat out said shes wrong, he then claims its more powerful than that AK47 (pointing at one on the shelf) again because it's "higher velocity". Told him level 3 ba is approved uo to 30-06, again the AR15 is more powerful because its "higher veolcity". Told him of course "velocity" is not everything, and that a lower velocity crossbow could easily penetrate a kevlar vest and he looked at me like im crazy. Pretty sad if a gun guy knows nothing about ballistics, but law makers? Way worse

 

[George P]

Never argue with an idiot, they only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience - George Carlin

 

[Robert]

.223/5.56 will penetrate Level III and IIIA soft armor. So it depends on if he meant hard or soft. Level IV hard plate will stop 30-06 AP. Level III hard plate will not.
http://www.bulletproofme.com/Ballistic_Protection_Levels.shtml

 

[CDW4ME]

Some guy in Rural King talking crap he doesn't know is like many Democrat anti-gunners in government.

 

[KYregular]

.223/5.56 will penetrate Level III and IIIA soft armor. So it depends on if he meant hard or soft. Level IV hard plate will stop 30-06 AP. Level III hard plate will not.
http://www.bulletproofme.com/Ballistic_Protection_Levels.shtml

Maybe armor piercing or lap, but fmj is doubtful from the armor that I've been looking at. Could depend on mfg though

 

[igotta40]

I thought you were going to tell us the price. I saw one last year in the weekly ad for $399

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Was his first name Elmer? Last name Fudd?

Asking realistic firearms info from a chain retail outlet is like asking the guy at Walmart who stocks the motor oil about automotive repair. The answers should be: "I dunno... I just work here, man"

 

[George P]

I thought you were going to tell us the price. I saw one last year in the weekly ad for $399

My local ad (yesterday) says new low everyday price of $359.99

Might have to go get one just because

Will they hit the broad side of the barn or are they a total POS?

EDIT to add: Sorry, this was for a .22lr version it seems - at least that is what the small print seems to say; but if the .223 version is $400, might have to go get one just 'cause.

 

[Danoobie]

The sad truth is the legislators making gun laws know as little or less about guns than those guys at RK.

 

[FL-NC]

Not even worth trying to have a conversation with people like that. A guy at academy the other day was explaining to his friend that 40 & 45 is better than a 9mm because if you miss center mass and hit the arm or leg, it will amputate said appendage and definitely put the adversary out of the fight. I just paid for my milk carton of 22 LR and left.

 

[TTv2]

"gun guys" today are guys who saw some Steven Segal movies in the 80s and once went to a civil war reenactment. I don't go into a store and label myself as a "gun guy" because as soon as I start dropping names of powders and twist rates, it doesn't need to be said.

Bunch of posers the Fudd's are.

 

[Pelo801]

I think we need to be more patient with the "Fudds". We want them on our side. Sure its fun to mock the cluelessness, but I didnt know anything about guns at one time either. These gun owner but "no one needs military grade firepower" types are the ones we need to invite shooting. Ease into these view changing conversations, not cold confrontations at the gun counter. Cuz like it or not, the Fudds get to vote too.

 

[Iroquois]

The sales clerks in major retailers aren’t making a lot of money. You can’t expect them to hire an expert in gun related sales positions, they just can’t afford them. Granted, some sales clerks are better than others, but I believe more so at the LGS. I do agree that anti gun people are easily swayed because of their lack of knowledge on the subject of guns and their enthusiasm to join a cause even if they don’t know what the cause truly is. As more and more businesses, especially big box stores, go to a“ self serve” way of of doing business it’s best you sharpen your pencil and do your homework.

 

[mljdeckard]

I agree, I would try to intervene in a non-confrontational manner. I try to save the fights for people I really need to fight.

But this also illustrates why I tell my concealed carry students to be careful with advice from the guy behind the counter at the gun store. They are very hit and miss. (BTW, I would not expect any soft armor to stop a M855 bullet.)

 

[hso]

Pretty sad if a gun guy knows nothing

That's more like it.

 

[armedwalleye]

The sad truth is the legislators making gun laws know as little or less about guns than those guys at RK.

And the sadder truth is that neither do a lot of the folks that vote for those politicians, but that doesn’t stop them voting or breeding.

 

[George Dickel]

I need some clarification here on penetration by .223/5.56. I've read a bunch of posts on this forum claiming that the .223/5.56 is excellent choice for home protection because it won't penetrate more than 2 layers of sheetrock but it will defeat body armor! Maybe they need to make body armor out of 3 layers of sheet rock.

 

[Danoobie]

You hear about so many home invaders wearing body armor, after all. A pistol will be easier to maneuver
in tight spaces, and not as hard on the eardrums, in the house.

 

[Glockula]

I need some clarification here on penetration by .223/5.56. I've read a bunch of posts on this forum claiming that the .223/5.56 is excellent choice for home protection because it won't penetrate more than 2 layers of sheetrock but it will defeat body armor! Maybe they need to make body armor out of 3 layers of sheet rock.

Depending on the type of projectile used the .233 / 5.56 will be in the same league as typical handgun hollow points relating to inches of gelatin and sheet rock penetrated. Examples would be the lighter Hornady Vmax line, speer Dogtown bullets or other soft examples.

A heavy .223 FMJ or M855 will certainly over penetrate and not be good indoors. I have no clue how many layers of sheet rock any will go through but an educated guess tells me the vmax style bullets will not make it through an intruder and 2 layers of sheet rock.

 

[buck460XVR]

I think we need to be more patient with the "Fudds". We want them on our side. Sure its fun to mock the cluelessness, but I didnt know anything about guns at one time either. These gun owner but "no one needs military grade firepower" types are the ones we need to invite shooting. Ease into these view changing conversations, not cold confrontations at the gun counter. Cuz like it or not, the Fudds get to vote too.

I agree. The idea "nobody needs that military rifle" is an opinion and not "doesn't have a clue". Most cops I know(and thus their fathers and mothers too) are not big fans of high capacity semi-automatic rifles that can penetrate the soft body armor they regularly wear.....for obvious reasons. This could and probably does affect one's opinion. One also must acknowledge that outside the parameter of gun forums, reloaders and competition shooters, most "gun guys" know very little about the external and terminal ballistics, of weapons they do not own or consider owning. While Mister Fudd knows exactly where his 30-06 deer rifle hits @ 100 yards, he doesn't know, nor really care, about his buddies 6.5 Creedmoor. While Mr. Fudd may be misinformed or confused, he is still pro-gun to a degree. Alienating him by castigation in front of others, even if it's just the clerk at RK, does nuttin' at all for our cause. He may very well have been a "gun guy" longer than the OP or even a NRA member.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar..........

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I agree. The idea "nobody needs that military rifle" is an opinion and not "doesn't have a clue". Most cops I know(and thus their fathers and mothers too) are not big fans of high capacity semi-automatic rifles that can penetrate the soft body armor they regularly wear.....for obvious reasons. This could and probably does affect one's opinion. One also must acknowledge that outside the parameter of gun forums, reloaders and competition shooters, most "gun guys" know very little about the external and terminal ballistics, of weapons they do not own or consider owning. While Mister Fudd knows exactly where his 30-06 deer rifle hits @ 100 yards, he doesn't know, nor really care, about his buddies 6.5 Creedmoor. While Mr. Fudd may be misinformed or confused, he is still pro-gun to a degree. Alienating him by castigation in front of others, even if it's just the clerk at RK, does nuttin' at all for our cause. He may very well have been a "gun guy" longer than the OP or even a NRA member.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar..........

Well said. But we also need to educative MR Fudd. We have to learn to do it in ways that don’t embarrass him ,but rather make him want to learn. It’s not easy and it’s not always possible. But most people are open to respectful discussions. The hard part is not coming across as a jerk, not making him defensive and feel like you’re trying to show him up.

I think we do a decent job on this forum. Maybe encouraging him to join this and other similar forums would be a start.

 

[George Dickel]

I agree. The idea "nobody needs that military rifle" is an opinion and not "doesn't have a clue". Most cops I know(and thus their fathers and mothers too) are not big fans of high capacity semi-automatic rifles that can penetrate the soft body armor they regularly wear.....for obvious reasons. This could and probably does affect one's opinion. One also must acknowledge that outside the parameter of gun forums, reloaders and competition shooters, most "gun guys" know very little about the external and terminal ballistics, of weapons they do not own or consider owning. While Mister Fudd knows exactly where his 30-06 deer rifle hits @ 100 yards, he doesn't know, nor really care, about his buddies 6.5 Creedmoor. While Mr. Fudd may be misinformed or confused, he is still pro-gun to a degree. Alienating him by castigation in front of others, even if it's just the clerk at RK, does nuttin' at all for our cause. He may very well have been a "gun guy" longer than the OP or even a NRA member.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar..........

Fudd needs to check out what firearms are allowed in the United Kingdom. Shotguns are limited to 3 rounds capacity, one in the chamber and 2 in the magazine. If I remember correctly semi-auto shotguns are banned as are semi-auto rifles and a whole slew of other restrictions on hunting arms and storage of firearms. If Fudd thinks that the antis will stop with "assault weapons" he is a moron or a fool.

 

[Jenrick]

Claiming 223 fmj will penetrate level 3 body armour because their "high velocity". He knows, he claims because his daughter whos a cop and told him so. I flat out said shes wrong, he then claims its more powerful than that AK47 (pointing at one on the shelf) again because it's "higher velocity". Told him level 3 ba is approved uo to 30-06, again the AR15 is more powerful because its "higher veolcity".

As a full time LEO firearms instructor, it's quite possible said Daughter thinks the correct designation for her soft body armor is level 3, and not 3a. That is a VERY common misconception among officers.

I need some clarification here on penetration by .223/5.56. I've read a bunch of posts on this forum claiming that the .223/5.56 is excellent choice for home protection because it won't penetrate more than 2 layers of sheetrock but it will defeat body armor! Maybe they need to make body armor out of 3 layers of sheet rock.

A 223/5.56 in general exhibits LESS (please note I didn't say minimal) penetration in residential construction materials than most other rounds. It will still certainly penetrate 2 layers of sheetrock and then some. In the event of a pass through shot (the intended target is struck and the round continues on) it's a complete toss up on what happens. There are so many factors in play it's very difficult to say anything beyond, a lighter slower bullet has less of a chance then a heaver faster bullet of punching through things.

-Jenrick

 

[KYregular]

I agree. The idea "nobody needs that military rifle" is an opinion and not "doesn't have a clue". Most cops I know(and thus their fathers and mothers too) are not big fans of high capacity semi-automatic rifles that can penetrate the soft body armor they regularly wear.....for obvious reasons. This could and probably does affect one's opinion. One also must acknowledge that outside the parameter of gun forums, reloaders and competition shooters, most "gun guys" know very little about the external and terminal ballistics, of weapons they do not own or consider owning. While Mister Fudd knows exactly where his 30-06 deer rifle hits @ 100 yards, he doesn't know, nor really care, about his buddies 6.5 Creedmoor. While Mr. Fudd may be misinformed or confused, he is still pro-gun to a degree. Alienating him by castigation in front of others, even if it's just the clerk at RK, does nuttin' at all for our cause. He may very well have been a "gun guy" longer than the OP or even a NRA member.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar..........

My point was not about who is the beteer "gun guy" but more about who is less likely to give up the least of his freedoms.

 

[KYregular]

Fudd needs to check out what firearms are allowed in the United Kingdom. Shotguns are limited to 3 rounds capacity, one in the chamber and 2 in the magazine. If I remember correctly semi-auto shotguns are banned as are semi-auto rifles and a whole slew of other restrictions on hunting arms and storage of firearms. If Fudd thinks that the antis will stop with "assault weapons" he is a moron or a fool.

Keep giving up our freedoms a little at a time, and we will be limited to one single shot .22 with subsonic rounds.