SCOTUS asked to rule on NY concealed carry

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The argument is that the Second Amendment protects the right to bear arms outside the home. If the states licensing scheme essentially denies that right to most citizens, then it should be struck down as unconstitutional. States powers don’t take precedence over the Bill of Rights provisions.

We’ll see if SCOTUS takes it up.
 
Hooda Thunkit said:
I don't have a great deal of faith in the backbone of Mr. Chief Justice John Roberts.
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Those cowards ain't taking the case.
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Not up to the Chief Justice and his 'backbone' or 'courage'......but about the law, the cases validity, whether or not it's backed by real evidence..not a twitter feed.
The Justices use the "Rule of Four” to decide if they will take the case. If four of the nine Justices feel the case has value, they will issue a writ of certiorari. ... These cases usually come from the federal courts of appeal, but the Court does sometimes hear appeals from the state Supreme Courts as well.
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This is the third such case in the courts.
GOA has a suit against MD over "must have good cause" = "never issue." Which is still in pretrial stage.
NRA has a similar suit against NJ on similar grounds. Also, still in pretrial.
The NY case is the only one to have advanced to SCOTUS level.

There are significant ramifications to this case. There are several States that are functionally Never Issue. They will come into the crosshairs as this is resolved.

Mind a decision in "our" favor means little. Places that have been ruled against, simply turn around and re-enact a similar law (DC still has yet to enact Heller-compliant law).
 
Having read the document, it is not totally accurate. It states:

New York bans the open carry of handguns
entirely. Kachalsky, 701 F.3d at 86. And while New
York permits concealed carry of a handgun with a
license, the state makes it virtually impossible for the
ordinary law-abiding citizen to obtain a license. A
New York licensing officer enjoys the discretion to
grant a concealed carry license to members of select
professions, such as state court judges, N.Y. Penal
Law §400.00(2), but a license to carry a handgun
“without regard to employment or place of possession”
may only be granted “when proper cause exists for the
issuance thereof,”
id.
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Some nuances. You need to get a permit to even possess a handgun in NYS (not discussed NYC). You have to justify getting one - unrestricted, self-defense, competition, hunting, premises. Counties vary on their strictness. One might have challenged on the basis of needing justification for any purchase, not just carry. So I don't know why they went this way. It seems the need to have justification for any gun is a stronger Heller case but they also want to free up carry - so maybe that's it.

Now, the virtually impossible statement is not true. In Western NY, there are thousands of people with unrestricted permits. Other counties in the state are similar. You have to take a course, get references and justify but you don't need a detail justification (I'm a diamond salesperson as in NYC). Wanting to defend yourself and stating it reasonably along with competing, hunting, having some knowledge will do it. I took the class with about 50 folks and the outfit that gives the class is very successful in the students getting permits. The local Cabelas gives classes - if it were impossible that wouldn't be the case.

I agree in theory that justification is unconstitutional (but what is is decided by Scotus),. however, there is large handgun culture if you get away from NYC.
 
GEM said:
Having read the document, it is not totally accurate. It states:



Some nuances. You need to get a permit to even possess a handgun in NYS (not discussed NYC). You have to justify getting one - unrestricted, self-defense, competition, hunting, premises. Counties vary on their strictness. One might have challenged on the basis of needing justification for any purchase, not just carry. So I don't know why they went this way. It seems the need to have justification for any gun is a stronger Heller case but they also want to free up carry - so maybe that's it.

Now, the virtually impossible statement is not true. In Western NY, there are thousands of people with unrestricted permits. Other counties in the state are similar. You have to take a course, get references and justify but you don't need a detail justification (I'm a diamond salesperson as in NYC). Wanting to defend yourself and stating it reasonably along with competing, hunting, having some knowledge will do it. I took the class with about 50 folks and the outfit that gives the class is very successful in the students getting permits. The local Cabelas gives classes - if it were impossible that wouldn't be the case.

I agree in theory that justification is unconstitutional (but what is is decided by Scotus),. however, there is large handgun culture if you get away from NYC.
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I absolutely do not agree that NY makes it virtually impossible to get a license. It’s easy as filling out an application and waiting. Never met a person who wasn’t a felon who didn’t get one.

As GEM posted some counties make you take a class but most don’t anymore. Getting a pistol on your permit is super easy too. Personally I’m ok that NY doesn’t have open carry as idgaf about open carrying (but that’s a discussion for another sub).
 
I had to take a class. Fill out 30 pages or so of fun filled forms. Scheduled my appointment to turn in my paperwork in August for May the 20th 2021. Getting permission for concealed carry in my county is hard and subjective. Takes six months from the time you submit the paperwork. The process varies by county. It is a royal pida.
 
Things like that need to be specified in a brief. I would think being very precise is important in a brief to Scotus. The idea of justification for any purchase would seem the first point to be made strongly as a Heller statement. Then, mention how even approval to purchase does not guarantee the right to carry. The need for references is also problematic for some people as where they live and how long they know you can be a stumbling block for many. Heller was a tad ambiguous on the issue of concealed carry, IMHO, and not as clear cut as the brief seems to state. Is the relief wanted to just to get rid of the justification on the submission? The discretion of the judges is a problem that should be eliminated. It should be that just passing a background check is sufficient. The class - trivial issue. Not to engage the constitutional carry issue but if a permit is required, it seems to me that a simple background check, appropriate age, a class of reasonable expense and a reasonable fee - is sufficient if the permit is granted in reasonable time, a month or two.

What county by the way, if you don't mind specifying?
 
daniel craig said:
I absolutely do not agree that NY makes it virtually impossible to get a license. It’s easy as filling out an application and waiting. Never met a person who wasn’t a felon who didn’t get one.

As GEM posted some counties make you take a class but most don’t anymore. Getting a pistol on your permit is super easy too. Personally I’m ok that NY doesn’t have open carry as idgaf about open carrying (but that’s a discussion for another sub).
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They deni everyone down buy me. Orange county.
 
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Folks, if you want to mention a positive or negative outcome, want to give the county? That won't give any serious ID away and would help the discussion. Mine is Erie County. Also Niagara County next door is not difficult.

Here's a thread I found on the process from a NYS forum. If you look at the first page, there is quite a bit of variance: https://nyfirearms.com/forums/pistol-permits/6709-revised-permit-map.html

The map is quite old. If I find a newer one, I'll post it.

That seems to be an important point as simple SD statements for justification works quite a bit. So a blanket statement is not a good idea? If you read through the thread you can see the variances, that should be a point - I would think? The law should not be so capricious.
 
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GEM said:
Folks, if you want to mention a positive or negative outcome, want to give the county? That won't give any serious ID away and would help the discussion. Mine is Erie County. Also Niagara County next door is not difficult.

Here's a thread I found on the process from a NYS forum. If you look at the first page, there is quite a bit of variance: https://nyfirearms.com/forums/pistol-permits/6709-revised-permit-map.html

The map is quite old. If I find a newer one, I'll post it.

That seems to be an important point as simple SD statements for justification works quite a bit. So a blanket statement is not a good idea? If you read through the thread you can see the variances, that should be a point - I would think? The law should not be so capricious.
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Monroe, Ontario, Livingston, Yates, Wayne, Wyoming, Genesee, Orleans are the counties I have the most experience with. Super easy.

Ontario is as easy as printing off or getting the paperwork from the county clerk, filling it out. It’s not difficult, and then bringing it in with a couple bucks. Wait a few months and bobs your uncle. No class needed, no pistol picked out beforehand nothing, hardest part is getting to the county clerk. Livingston is east too and they give you your pickup coupon BEFORE you buy your pistol.
 
JERRY said:
state's rights.
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Nope.

If that were true, we would still have 35 states denying same sex couples the right to be married. States do not have the right to violate their citizens' Constitutional rights. The 10th Amendment only grants states the powers not specifically granted to the Federal government.

If this course makes it to the court, the question will be, as stated earlier, does the 2nd amendment grant the right to bear arms outside of the home. If yes, then the 14th amendment's equal protection clause kicks in, as does other case law where the Court has ruled that rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights must be honored by state governments. (Gideon v Wainright comes to mind, which proved that defendants have a right to an attorney, even in state court-IIRC.)

Now, if the answer is no, then there goes the ball game.
 
Zerodefect said:
Got any more cute excuses?

The SC can do their job. Or people will do it for them.
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Not cute or an excuse but telling you how the SC chooses to hear or not hear a case. NOT up to one justice but a discussion among all of them, including the newest three...You can choose to ignore that if you wish.
 
Note: complaining about Scotus because of the current election is off topic and will be deleted and infracted. Also, let's stay with the specifics of the case rather than Scotus in general.
 
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