Deltaboy1984
Member
I seen one guy shot down there by a Lady using 12 gauge with #4 Duck load! He bleed out and it left a nasty wound in Man Land! We got to see alot of stuff the 5 years I worked at the Hospital in LR Arkansas!
The problem is, as inviting as a pelvic shot seems, the target is really small. The hip isn't nearly as big as your fist. Much of the rest of the pelvic area isn't all that vital, and there are no vital organs in that area. If you can hit the hip, you can hit the brain or heart much more easily.
Peculiarly, the accepted wisdom about what constitutes the best POA to stop am assailant, center mass, happens to also be the best POA to kill the assailant. So you can say the politically correct thing about going for a stop, but in truth the most commonly taught POA is the one most likely to result in a kill. Your suggestion does not share that same characteristic and, as such, is most likely not a good choice. Disabling an assailant’s mobility by a pelvic shot does not provide an acceptable probability of taking away their ability to shoot.I saw a short video (you can find it via a search of the title phrase on Google or YouTube), advocating doing just that in a close quarters defensive situation. But I'm not interested in talking about that video so much as the effect doing so could have on an attacker.
In numerous videos by Paul Harrell, where he shoots a "meat target", he references the ribs being shattered by the impact of various bullets. So clearly some bullets are capable of shattering some bones (though he uses ribs bought at the store). The Pelvic bone presents a rather large surface area from the front, and when including the lower spine and the tops of the Femurs, presents an even larger area. Now consider that the Pelvis is a critical part (some may consider it the chassis) of the skeletal system, and that it and the muscles surrounding it are also critical to foot travel (as in an attacker advancing upon an intended victim).
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Does it seem to anyone else that the Pelvis is potentially quite a good target option in a self defense situation, where the goal of defensive firearms use is to stop the attack? I realise the situation changes depending on the circumstances (if the assailant also has a gun). But it occurs to me that whilst a Center-Of-Mass shot (or indeed several) may not stop an attacker from advancing if the Centeral Nervous System is not struck, a hit to the Pelvis could potentially cause enough mechanical damage as to disable the attacker.
Objectively, what do you think?
Simply said and as gang bangers know, the first hit usually wins.
Those who spend time shooting at a stationary silhouette target and believing that to break reflective of the real world might come to that conclusion.Crotch/pelvis is a valid place to put rounds IMO.
I shoot a lot of paper, to be sure, and I am the furthest from a tactical operator but I am not sure you read the whole post? Perhaps my writing skills are sub-par.Those who spend time shooting at a stationary silhouette target and believing that to break reflective of the real world might come to that conclusion.
But in a self defense situation, where immediate necessity factors would justify the lawful use of deadly force, no.
I would suggest that two or three FoF exercises using simunitions, where the defender is surprised, starts with a holstered firearm, and is attacked by a person moving very fast from around a car or gas pumps, would disabuse one of that belief very effectively.
Yep, iff center mass is presented to you as a target.Center of Mass is still the best option, IMO.
Of course not. What they will do is educate and train, and give the trainee some idea of just how difficult it is to react quickly and to hit a moving target effectively without hitting someone else.I don't think that even partaking in FoF training (while absolutely fantastic) gives you a crystal ball on how your next violent encounter will go or what shots are available at what times.
Simulations are the only way to gain any real experience before putting oneself at extreme risk, and the only way to get enough experience to be meaningful.Simulations are, just that, simulations
How effective do you think it would likely be? This has been discussed here for years, and most people seem to think that a handgun shot to the pelvis would not be very effective. Even if a shot does penetrate the pelvic bone, it may not be immediately weakened....I don't see how shooting someone in the pelvis is going to be especially bad for you.
If you wait for the ideal shot, you will lose. If you need to apply force, do it to whatever target is available.
We agree. Which is what 99% of people are advocating.Yep, iff center mass is presented to you as a target.
I think the reliability of any shot on target beats waiting for the right shot.But the idea "If the pelvis is the first thing the muzzle crosses in the defensive encounter, I advocate pressing a shot there (or two) on the way up to center mass" would only work reliably if () there were little moment and (2) time were not of the essence. With an assailant moving at "Tueller speed", pressing a shot when one sees whatever the muzzle has crossed would result in a hit somewhere else, after that target has moved some distance. That may be within the pelvic area, or maybe not, but the crotch represents a much smaller target and would be too elusive for that.
I am a huge advocate of training and especially FoF with good quality instructors.Of course not. What they will do is educate and train, and give the trainee some idea of just how difficult it is to react quickly and to hit a moving target effectively without hitting someone else.
Simulations are the only way to gain any real experience before putting oneself at extreme risk, and the only way to get enough experience to be meaningful.
It isn't so much as "how effective" but more "better than nothing at this time".How effective do you think it would likely be? This has been discussed here for years, and most people seem to think that a handgun shot to the pelvis would not be very effective. Even if a shot does penetrate the pelvic bone, it may not be immediately weakened.
If it doesn't prove to be effective, you keep with the original plan: COM.If it does not prove effective, and if there remains time for better placement of additional shots, that unintentional hit would not be all that bad for you.
Agree.This is good advice: