Shooting through car windows.
- Thread starter Mr_Moore
- Start date
- Status
marshall3
Member
What about your ears???
You may become deaf from the confined blast noise.
You may become deaf from the confined blast noise.
Zach S
Member
+1Majic said:
A handgun round may not make it through the windshield though... For that matter, it may not make it through the side (or back) glass. When the back glass got shot out of DaMont, I never found the bullet. Since I couldn't find it in the car, I can only assume that it didn't make it that far, and probably bounced off of the glass.
C-grunt
Member
My old neighbor got shot at in his car by a handgun and it went through the windshield and blew out the back driverside quarter-window. He did find little pieces of the windshield on his front seat.
JMusic
member
I've seen close range 12 shotgun blasts not penetrate a windshield. I've touched of a few handguns shooting either thru an open door or window. Muzzel blast to the ears feels like someone slapped you in the head. I once opened a door to the vehicle being in the driver seat and fired a .357 mag 3 times. The window was up. It stunned me. Took almost a week to regain hearing in that ear.
Jim
Jim
I've investigated quite a number of shootings, and seen first hand, where rds went thru the front, sides and rear. It's possible you may get some from the inside. It wouldn't be much from the front windshield as the windshield is laminated glass. Side and rear might get some falling back inside. The backward flow of glass happens just as the bullet strikes the glass. It's not much but some where if you were close enough to the glass you might get some on you. However, you have to look at the big picture. Why are you shooting out thru the glass? It's because you're being attacked with deadly force and you are defending yourself. So in the big scheme of things a bit of glass on you and hearing loss are pretty insignificant compared to fending off incoming rds.
Most of the shootings I've done have involved 9mm. Here's a short recap on a few:
1) Attempt to arrest a bad guy sitting in a car. BG, armed with a Browning HiPower loaded with Fed 115 gr BPLE, shoots 1 agent who approached the driver's side window. Window down, agent hit and killed. 2nd agent approaching from the passenger side front with an 870 is fired on thru the front windshield with 1 or 2 rds. Both rds go thru the windshield. 1 strikes the agent in the head with a glancing hit. Agent drops but then gets up again as BG is rolling out the driver's side door. BG fires 1 or 2 rdsthru the front windshield (there were 3 rds total fired at that agent, just never sure of what order) striking the agent in the wrist which the rd travels up his foream and exits near the elbow. That agent is down and out of action. 3rd agent, armed wtih S&W 439, fires 8 rds of 9mm Fed 115 BP thru the back window. All 8 rds to thru the back window and window stays intact. All of those rds miss the BG. 2 of those rds, after going thru the back window continue on thru the front window. BG finally killed by 1 shot from a 12 ga slug.
2) BG, armed with a .22 S&W revolver, fires at officer who is armed with a S&W 439 loaded with 115 gr Fed BP. Officer fires 8 rds at BG who is seated in the front passenger seat of the car. Officer is in front of the BG's car so is shooting towards the front. None of the BG's rds were found so don't know what they hit. BG is firing as he's rolling out of the passenger side open door. 3 rds from the officer hit the windshield where the dash meets the windshield. All 3 rds penetrated the windshield and lodged in the dash. 1 rd went thru the passenger side window shattering it. 1 rd when thru the headlight and lodged in the fender. 3 rds went thru the side of the open door. One of those rds that had gone thru the door struck the BG as he was squatted down in the leg near the knee, exited, traveled up his leg under his pants leg and causing a cut along the thigh, went thru the cheek of his buttock, and lodged in his wallet.
3) BG gets out of his truck and fires on the officer who is parked behind the BG's truck. One of the BG's rds (forget now what the BG was shooting) hit the officer. BG gets back in his truck to drive away. Officer fires with a S&W 459 loaded with W-W 115 gr JHP+P+. One of those rds goes thru the back window (window stays intact), goes thru the headrest, and strikes the BG in the back of the head.
(I always like telling this next one)
4) Officer is patrolling one quite Easter morning out in the rural part of the county. He sees a coyote off to his right. He pushes the button to roll down the front passenger side window to shoot the coyote. He fires thru the front passenger window and misses the coyote. However, when pushed the button to roll down the front passenger window he mistakenly pushed the button to roll down the rear passenger window. That cost him some days off.
Most of the shootings I've done have involved 9mm. Here's a short recap on a few:
1) Attempt to arrest a bad guy sitting in a car. BG, armed with a Browning HiPower loaded with Fed 115 gr BPLE, shoots 1 agent who approached the driver's side window. Window down, agent hit and killed. 2nd agent approaching from the passenger side front with an 870 is fired on thru the front windshield with 1 or 2 rds. Both rds go thru the windshield. 1 strikes the agent in the head with a glancing hit. Agent drops but then gets up again as BG is rolling out the driver's side door. BG fires 1 or 2 rdsthru the front windshield (there were 3 rds total fired at that agent, just never sure of what order) striking the agent in the wrist which the rd travels up his foream and exits near the elbow. That agent is down and out of action. 3rd agent, armed wtih S&W 439, fires 8 rds of 9mm Fed 115 BP thru the back window. All 8 rds to thru the back window and window stays intact. All of those rds miss the BG. 2 of those rds, after going thru the back window continue on thru the front window. BG finally killed by 1 shot from a 12 ga slug.
2) BG, armed with a .22 S&W revolver, fires at officer who is armed with a S&W 439 loaded with 115 gr Fed BP. Officer fires 8 rds at BG who is seated in the front passenger seat of the car. Officer is in front of the BG's car so is shooting towards the front. None of the BG's rds were found so don't know what they hit. BG is firing as he's rolling out of the passenger side open door. 3 rds from the officer hit the windshield where the dash meets the windshield. All 3 rds penetrated the windshield and lodged in the dash. 1 rd went thru the passenger side window shattering it. 1 rd when thru the headlight and lodged in the fender. 3 rds went thru the side of the open door. One of those rds that had gone thru the door struck the BG as he was squatted down in the leg near the knee, exited, traveled up his leg under his pants leg and causing a cut along the thigh, went thru the cheek of his buttock, and lodged in his wallet.
3) BG gets out of his truck and fires on the officer who is parked behind the BG's truck. One of the BG's rds (forget now what the BG was shooting) hit the officer. BG gets back in his truck to drive away. Officer fires with a S&W 459 loaded with W-W 115 gr JHP+P+. One of those rds goes thru the back window (window stays intact), goes thru the headrest, and strikes the BG in the back of the head.
(I always like telling this next one)
4) Officer is patrolling one quite Easter morning out in the rural part of the county. He sees a coyote off to his right. He pushes the button to roll down the front passenger side window to shoot the coyote. He fires thru the front passenger window and misses the coyote. However, when pushed the button to roll down the front passenger window he mistakenly pushed the button to roll down the rear passenger window. That cost him some days off.
JMusic
member
They gave him time off for missin a coyote!!?
1911 guy
Member
Personal experience and auto glass.
You'll wind up with some glass on the shooter side of the glass, but small quantity and even small pieces. As for gunshots in confined spaces, assuming earplugs are not an option, open your mouth. Pressure gets in your head, too and may prevent blown eardrums. Not WILL, but MAY. depends on how big a boomer you're using and how big the space is.
You'll wind up with some glass on the shooter side of the glass, but small quantity and even small pieces. As for gunshots in confined spaces, assuming earplugs are not an option, open your mouth. Pressure gets in your head, too and may prevent blown eardrums. Not WILL, but MAY. depends on how big a boomer you're using and how big the space is.
MTMilitiaman
Member
Zach S said:
I think most modern defensive hollow points should make it through. The FBI tests rounds and they must make it through angled windshield glass, sheet metal (to simulate car doors), heavy clothing, and other obstacles while still penetrating 12 inches of ballistic geletin in order to pass.
1911 guy
Member
.45 ACP and auto glass
The .45 ACP does have a reputation for once in a while failing to penetrate safety glass. I don't know about the H.P. loads, only info I knew of was for FMJ.
The .45 ACP does have a reputation for once in a while failing to penetrate safety glass. I don't know about the H.P. loads, only info I knew of was for FMJ.
gudel
Member
you should lower your windows before you start shooting. less glass on you, and less repair cost.
MachIVshooter
Member
MTMilitiaman said:
Go shoot at a few old cars. Handgun rounds have a very difficult time getting through windshilds, doors, etc. Modern cars have significantly lower windshield angles as well. My Intrepid is along the lines of ~ 35 degrees. A bullet can ricochet off of water at that angle, let alone laminated glass. And doors are a lot more than sheetmetal. You have windows, window regulators, electric motors, linkage, etc.
There have been many instances where a team unloaded on a suspect in an automobile and didn't even hit the him/her, even though the car looks like swiss cheese from the outside. There is one such scene I remember where a SWAT team emptied numerous pistols, shotguns and MP5's into a suburban and hit the suspect once in the arm. From watching the clip, I would guess better than 100 rounds were fired into that car.
Kurac
Member
The .357 magnum works great on cars. I fired on some cars at a junk yard once and was quite impressed. With my special 124gr FMJ over a maximum charge of Bluedot (I think about 1,600fps) only the bumpers would stop a round. I had a few rounds go through 6 seperate pieces of sheetmetal. I was surprised to see that tire treads are a lot more resistant to my ammo than I would ever have expected.
Exactly - if the situation's bad enough you are about to use deadly force, the off chance of experiencing hearing loss or a bit of powdered glass in your eye is a pretty minor thing to worry about - I'm more worried about the threat posed by whoever it is that needs shooting so badly - thier incoming rounds are the problem, not my muzzle blast and some flying powdered glass!
Solution - squint and yell as you press that trigger!
Zach S
Member
FBI tests aside, my previous post was based on my personal experiance of getting shot at while in my car. Since the bullet wasnt recovered, I couldnt tell you what kind of round it was. However, I can tell you it didn't make it to the inside of my car.MTMilitiaman said:
Dave P
Member
I am thinking of a situation where you have to defend your life and don't have time to roll down the window
I suggest you try very hard to drive away, before you resort to shooting out of your vehicle.
I suggest you try very hard to drive away, before you resort to shooting out of your vehicle.
Dave P said:
Of course, but I was thinking of a situation where you could not do that.
This whole question came to me as I was sitting in my car with my engine off and a few guys approached my car. They walked right by me, but I often try to think of what I would do if I there was an attempted car jacking, etc.
It is winter so my windows were up. One of the things that occured to me was that if one of them came up to me with a gun demanding my car, I would have to shoot through the glass. I was thinking that shards could cut my eyes and blind me.
Based on what I have read in this thread, I think that is not very likely.
MachIVshooter said:
BTDT. Have tested. Depends entirely on the caliber being fired. Do not depend on the angle of the glass to protect you. Rds WILL go thru the glass. The most common defensive rds carried today will penetrate any window glass in cars.
Just yesterday I got a DEA report where they'd done some testing at various angles on a Buick Skylark, a Volvo, and another vehicle (not specified). Calibers used - .40 165 gr Gold Dot, 9mm 147 gr Gold Dot, .223 62 gr Federal Tactical, 12 ga Winchester 1 oz slug, and 12 ga Remington reduced recoil 00 Buck. Also tested but unspecified manufacture were 9mm 124 FMJ, .45 230 gr FMJ, .357 125 gr JHP, .223 62 gr FMJ, 7.62X39 123 gr JHP, and 12 ga 00 Buck. Distances were 5 to 15 yds.
The results were only the 00 Buck did not completely penetrate the front windshields however some of the pellets did manage to penetrate the windshield and still strike the mannequin inside. All other rds completely penetrated the windshields, continued on in the aimed path, struck the mannequin at point of aim, and most continued on thru the vehicle, depending on what else was struck.
We've also tested on using a vehicle for cover. Vehicles make lousy cover regardless where you are located and regardless of the common defensive calibers used. Car metal is not that thick. It's only when the bullet happens to strike something like an engine block (not really that big), a window motor, or something in the trunk like a spare tire, is the bullet stopped.
HighVelocity
Member
The real issue is, what will the ejected hot shell casing do to the leather? 
Seriously, hearing damage is a very real concern. I fired a 30 06 from inside a pickup cab ONCE. The pain was so intense that I thought I was going to vomit. (I was young and learned my lesson).
Seriously, hearing damage is a very real concern. I fired a 30 06 from inside a pickup cab ONCE. The pain was so intense that I thought I was going to vomit. (I was young and learned my lesson).
HighVelocity said:Seriously, hearing damage is a very real concern. I fired a 30 06 from inside a pickup cab ONCE. The pain was so intense that I thought I was going to vomit. (I was young and learned my lesson).
If someone was shooting at you and your only defense was to return fire, what's a bit of vomit on your leather seats?
ktd
Member
I just follow Murph's law, if you are shooting, the round is gonna deflect or not penetrate, and if you are being shot at, the guy is gonna shoot off and the glass will deflect it right at you!
Seriously, in my experience, you will get some glass in the vehicle, typically not much, especially on a front windshield, though all you need is one little piece in your eye to ruin your minute. The windshield is made of three layers typically and is designed to try to stay in one piece. The side windows are more prone to fragmenting, being made of tempered glass and being actually designed to fragment. In the sandbox we put mylar (tinting) on the passenger windows to help keep glass particles from flying. I also always wore tight fitting sunglasses during the day and clear safety glasses (that look stylish of course) at night. Also it turns out that a lot of the machine guns and AK's are overgreased (if they are greased at all) and tend to spit out a lot of stuff as they cycle. Not to forget about shell casings flying every which way.
In the states I myself actually worry quite a bit about little kids throwing crap from overpasses at your car, happens a lot more than people think. A big object will often send a lot of crap flying through the car. Not to mention the big object might hit you too. I often wear driving glasses for that reason.
k
Seriously, in my experience, you will get some glass in the vehicle, typically not much, especially on a front windshield, though all you need is one little piece in your eye to ruin your minute. The windshield is made of three layers typically and is designed to try to stay in one piece. The side windows are more prone to fragmenting, being made of tempered glass and being actually designed to fragment. In the sandbox we put mylar (tinting) on the passenger windows to help keep glass particles from flying. I also always wore tight fitting sunglasses during the day and clear safety glasses (that look stylish of course) at night. Also it turns out that a lot of the machine guns and AK's are overgreased (if they are greased at all) and tend to spit out a lot of stuff as they cycle. Not to forget about shell casings flying every which way.
In the states I myself actually worry quite a bit about little kids throwing crap from overpasses at your car, happens a lot more than people think. A big object will often send a lot of crap flying through the car. Not to mention the big object might hit you too. I often wear driving glasses for that reason.
k
- Status
