GrandMoffBrandon
Member
Thanks for the links!
SHTF Scenario???
- Thread starter Big Bill
- Start date
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Thanks for the links!
innerpiece
Member
yeah its kinda funny actually. to me anyway.
all the capital letters n stuff.. reminds me of kids "texting" on their phones.. like ***?!
but serious. to me, if SHTF.... Im WAY out in the woods. Ive got big long range BA rifles, Ive got 2 SKS's, a Shotgun, an AR, 2 9mm pistols, gunpowder and nessecary recepticals, food, water, gas, big house and a few outbuildings...
Im not preparing for "SHTF"..lol.. Im just prepared for living where yer alone.. pretty shure we would be fine out here thru anything but a bomb..
quite often, "SHTF" fanatics are one in the same with folks who plan on killing zombies......
but hey, they support the economy!
ip.
all the capital letters n stuff.. reminds me of kids "texting" on their phones.. like ***?!
but serious. to me, if SHTF.... Im WAY out in the woods. Ive got big long range BA rifles, Ive got 2 SKS's, a Shotgun, an AR, 2 9mm pistols, gunpowder and nessecary recepticals, food, water, gas, big house and a few outbuildings...
Im not preparing for "SHTF"..lol.. Im just prepared for living where yer alone.. pretty shure we would be fine out here thru anything but a bomb..
quite often, "SHTF" fanatics are one in the same with folks who plan on killing zombies......
but hey, they support the economy!
ip.
Treo
member
If we're talking total soceital collapse then sooner or later you're going to have to settle down and grow crops, that's going to require team work you're not going to do it alone ( and if you do you won't defend it by yourself) I haven't googled Claude Dallas yet but I'll bet if it was good crop land somebody would be farming it.
Personally if I had the option I'd head for a high mountain valley, the kind of place that's damn near impossible to get to and try to crop it which would bring it's own new set of problems.
I wouldn't necessarily give up but I'd forgo any thought of dying of old age
Personally if I had the option I'd head for a high mountain valley, the kind of place that's damn near impossible to get to and try to crop it which would bring it's own new set of problems.
I wouldn't necessarily give up but I'd forgo any thought of dying of old age
Actually, if you REALLY want to talk to some of the most serious and knowlegable persons regarding Emergency Preparedness, Survival, etc., you need to take a trip over to Zombie Squad.
http://www.zombiehunters.org/
They are a non-profit group that has a lot to offer and do a lot of fund-raising.
I am JWarren there as well.
BTW... It is a VERY Pro-gun board.
You can't be anti-zombie AND anti-gun.
-- John
barry960
Member
I believe keeping a mentality of self reliance and preparedness is something that defined America historically, and it's good to think about from time to time. Better to think of some kind of game plan than just think you're screwed. Images of Katrina bothered me not only because so many people were screwed and helpless without government aid, although I am judgmental about that, but mainly their sense of entitlement to fast and top notch government action. They just assume the government is the be-all end-all and individuals don't need to take any personal responsibility.
My other thought on this topic of generic SHTF scenarios is basically, 'Hey you other THR people, let's not open fire on each other and assume every other person is a baddie!' For example, I have a place I would go to in case the general Seattle area was in danger from volcano or tsunami (the two most likely SHTF scenarios to happen to this region) I would want some allies, knowing I can't be 100% self reliant forever, with the unlikely exception of high populations are deceased and I wouldn't have to worry about running out of game and other resources. I might want to barter board in my cabin for a person with a .50BMG caliber rifle, which I don't have, for example, or a medical doctor would be a good person to team up with. Probably some of you paranoid types would turn against me and not give a S that I'm a fellow THRer, and that's what worries me. I might have had the one thing you needed to save a loved one the next day, and on top of that, maybe I'd just decide to not help stop a small roving rape gang heading your way even though I knew you sent your daughter out to look for mushrooms.
My other thought on this topic of generic SHTF scenarios is basically, 'Hey you other THR people, let's not open fire on each other and assume every other person is a baddie!' For example, I have a place I would go to in case the general Seattle area was in danger from volcano or tsunami (the two most likely SHTF scenarios to happen to this region) I would want some allies, knowing I can't be 100% self reliant forever, with the unlikely exception of high populations are deceased and I wouldn't have to worry about running out of game and other resources. I might want to barter board in my cabin for a person with a .50BMG caliber rifle, which I don't have, for example, or a medical doctor would be a good person to team up with. Probably some of you paranoid types would turn against me and not give a S that I'm a fellow THRer, and that's what worries me. I might have had the one thing you needed to save a loved one the next day, and on top of that, maybe I'd just decide to not help stop a small roving rape gang heading your way even though I knew you sent your daughter out to look for mushrooms.
Barry makes excellent points.
This past hurricane season, I exchanged numbers AND addresses/directions with a number of local people who are on THR, AR15.com, and Zombiehunters.org. Between us, we had a network of about 50 people over a 100 mile radius.
We didn't need it, but it was good knowing we had that in place.
-- John
This past hurricane season, I exchanged numbers AND addresses/directions with a number of local people who are on THR, AR15.com, and Zombiehunters.org. Between us, we had a network of about 50 people over a 100 mile radius.
We didn't need it, but it was good knowing we had that in place.
-- John
Thanks everyone for the words of advice and criticism. Next time, I'll try and be more specific and not hash over old topics. It sounds to me like most here have already decided what to do in most scenarios - so I apologize for the rehash.
John - I really don't think I'll be fine while everyone else is screwed. If our country is screwed, then so are all of us.
Barry - good words. I can learn something from you. Thanks!
John - I really don't think I'll be fine while everyone else is screwed. If our country is screwed, then so are all of us.
Barry - good words. I can learn something from you. Thanks!
Treo
member
Interesting thing about that Claude Dallas country, there were cops out there and they found him.
Macmac
Member
Treo, it depends on what you consider crops.. Since I live in New Hampster i consider maple sugar trees a crop form as i make maple sugar and syrup.
I also consider inner bark of birch trees a crop like coffee, and can use the outter bark to make containers that will hold water in or out. The wood is useful for building and or burning to stay warm.
I can and have made cabium white pine bark bread, so with that and 1 ounce of pine needles with how water i can have sugared tea and bread.
On the other hand just me and my wife have a garden for corn, beans squash, and other assorted common plants in a 50x100 garden which can grown thing that store a long time. I haven't even got a power tiller, but I wish i did.
We make out own compost and use no bug killers or fertilizers, but still I find and eat wild plants all the time and can almost year round. cat tails grow here and you can alomost get them any time unless there is way too much snow. people spend good money on fiddleheads in stores and you can't really grown them in a garden.. We eat wild turnips in summer too, and lots of other things from the wild too much to list in a post.
Some of these might be worth the mention in berries made into old tyme pemican. But 1 man and 1 woman are all it takes to work up a garden worthy of feeding the 2 of us and then some.. It is back breaking everyday work in season, and must be done with a paid for job too boot.. But if you are determined you can do it, with out lots of people.
I pretty much just live this way so not much of this SHTF thing means much to me. I understand what cold wet and hungery mean, and can and have dealt with it before.
Just to get the things right, by hand with a shovel and PICK AXE we broke hard pan soil mostly sand, for 50x100, and then used a milk crate to sort the little top soil out of the weeds the first year. Since then I made a heck of alot of compost and added 3 big piles maybe 12 yards each to the garden last spring and am working on more compost now. I should have about that much to add. leaving that dirt patch indeed would be a bad thing, since I have time, sweat and tears invested.
I also consider inner bark of birch trees a crop like coffee, and can use the outter bark to make containers that will hold water in or out. The wood is useful for building and or burning to stay warm.
I can and have made cabium white pine bark bread, so with that and 1 ounce of pine needles with how water i can have sugared tea and bread.
On the other hand just me and my wife have a garden for corn, beans squash, and other assorted common plants in a 50x100 garden which can grown thing that store a long time. I haven't even got a power tiller, but I wish i did.
We make out own compost and use no bug killers or fertilizers, but still I find and eat wild plants all the time and can almost year round. cat tails grow here and you can alomost get them any time unless there is way too much snow. people spend good money on fiddleheads in stores and you can't really grown them in a garden.. We eat wild turnips in summer too, and lots of other things from the wild too much to list in a post.
Some of these might be worth the mention in berries made into old tyme pemican. But 1 man and 1 woman are all it takes to work up a garden worthy of feeding the 2 of us and then some.. It is back breaking everyday work in season, and must be done with a paid for job too boot.. But if you are determined you can do it, with out lots of people.
I pretty much just live this way so not much of this SHTF thing means much to me. I understand what cold wet and hungery mean, and can and have dealt with it before.
Just to get the things right, by hand with a shovel and PICK AXE we broke hard pan soil mostly sand, for 50x100, and then used a milk crate to sort the little top soil out of the weeds the first year. Since then I made a heck of alot of compost and added 3 big piles maybe 12 yards each to the garden last spring and am working on more compost now. I should have about that much to add. leaving that dirt patch indeed would be a bad thing, since I have time, sweat and tears invested.
Macmac
Member
Treo, I wasn't talking about killing any gamewardens.. But I heya' they are just like chicken. 
Perhaps had he not illed anyone no one would have gone looking for him.
I lived that way for 3 years and no one came looking for me..
Perhaps had he not illed anyone no one would have gone looking for him.
I lived that way for 3 years and no one came looking for me..
Bill,
I truly hope I didn't come across as overly critical or harse. Neither were my intentions.
The point I attempted to make with the threads was that THR has done quite a bit of discussion on these very topics, and I consider THR members a bit more rational and thoughtful on the topic. For the most part, they've (we've?) shown it over the last several years.
I personally don't worry about the number of SHTF threads that come up. ANY discussion of preparedness has merit-- if for no other reason, it keeps people reminded of the importance of it.
And there's another component....
I am actually HAPPY when I read more and more people talking about "SHTF" preparedness-- EVEN if they are talking about Red Dawn or "Zombies."
After all... what does that REALLY say about us?
It says that a portion of the USA is still willing and able to consider being self-sufficient and is still willing to fight for what should be fought. That is a character component that made America great, and is probably the reason we STILL exist.
A lot of our country doesn't think that way anymore. Every new person that asks questions means one more person that thinks in self-reliant terms.
And let's face it...
If we ARE talking about some kind of armed resistance to some invading army, doesn't that say some thing about us as well?
Sure, we are screwed. But you know what? We would be screwed doing nothing, too. It is only a question of how you go into that dark night.
Friedrich Nietzsche wrote an interesting, yet scathing criticism of the Jews once. This philosopher was a well-known anti-semitic. I quote him for the jist-- although I DO NOT share his anti-semitism. I think that-- in our world 100 years later-- we could insert a large portion of the USA into his statement:
Again, I am not anti-semitic. Also, remember that Nietzsche did not live to see Israel as it is today. I think they would fit nicely into his "Warrior" philosophy.
I think that we are at the point that most Americans would chose "To Be" regardless of the terms or conditions. And I hope that this condition changes. It was a principled and defiant nature that created this country, and that will be all that saves it.
-- John
I truly hope I didn't come across as overly critical or harse. Neither were my intentions.
The point I attempted to make with the threads was that THR has done quite a bit of discussion on these very topics, and I consider THR members a bit more rational and thoughtful on the topic. For the most part, they've (we've?) shown it over the last several years.
I personally don't worry about the number of SHTF threads that come up. ANY discussion of preparedness has merit-- if for no other reason, it keeps people reminded of the importance of it.
And there's another component....
I am actually HAPPY when I read more and more people talking about "SHTF" preparedness-- EVEN if they are talking about Red Dawn or "Zombies."
After all... what does that REALLY say about us?
It says that a portion of the USA is still willing and able to consider being self-sufficient and is still willing to fight for what should be fought. That is a character component that made America great, and is probably the reason we STILL exist.
A lot of our country doesn't think that way anymore. Every new person that asks questions means one more person that thinks in self-reliant terms.
And let's face it...
If we ARE talking about some kind of armed resistance to some invading army, doesn't that say some thing about us as well?
Sure, we are screwed. But you know what? We would be screwed doing nothing, too. It is only a question of how you go into that dark night.
Friedrich Nietzsche wrote an interesting, yet scathing criticism of the Jews once. This philosopher was a well-known anti-semitic. I quote him for the jist-- although I DO NOT share his anti-semitism. I think that-- in our world 100 years later-- we could insert a large portion of the USA into his statement:
Again, I am not anti-semitic. Also, remember that Nietzsche did not live to see Israel as it is today. I think they would fit nicely into his "Warrior" philosophy.
I think that we are at the point that most Americans would chose "To Be" regardless of the terms or conditions. And I hope that this condition changes. It was a principled and defiant nature that created this country, and that will be all that saves it.
-- John
Treo
member
I agree it can be done MacMac but it opens up a whole new set of problems. Sure two people can grow a garden they can survive from but can they defend it?
Macmac
Member
Treo, Like any SHTF it all depends..
I defend our garden from deer, skunks and racoons, for the now past 2 harvests. I expect I will in the future as well. What I do is camp out right on the trails/tracks these critters leave.
These critters will eat stuff before a human would too.
And since the critters could be bears you can bet I am armed up pretty heavy.
One thing I am particularly proud of is that the first year, while buying garden supplies I happened on the grain stores offerings of the last 5 strawberry plants.
For once i got it right, and chose the longest bearing plants that there must be. The produce from late Spring thru first frost.
That was just luck, but these 5 pants became 75 plants by there frst Spring, and I have no idea how many there are now, as I must wait to divide them this coming spring.
I tried 6 times to count all the new runners and filed, as it is just to confusing, and my counts ended with a total of just 200 plants, which is wrong, very wrong, and I suspect the real count will be closer to 1,000 plants.
Lots of bear bait, and not what I really want, but I like the berries.
Also I admitt being lucky with the location. Not even locals know this place exists. You can't see it from anywhere except the air.
In Shtf to me I figure i can chain the far end of the road into here, and hang a sign on it saying Old Town Dump, CLOSED, and most people will take that as gosspel.
I do have a question to anyone... I don't believe I will get the answer, but I will ask anyway.
There is a insect known as the Japanese Beetle here which is a royal pain, and I simply refuse to use bug killers on food I will eat.
Over this past growing season I found scat, and it was full of Japanese Beetle wings! I looked hard and found no produce in the scat, and so I desire what ever critter this is. But what critter is it?
I defend our garden from deer, skunks and racoons, for the now past 2 harvests. I expect I will in the future as well. What I do is camp out right on the trails/tracks these critters leave.
These critters will eat stuff before a human would too.
And since the critters could be bears you can bet I am armed up pretty heavy.
One thing I am particularly proud of is that the first year, while buying garden supplies I happened on the grain stores offerings of the last 5 strawberry plants.
For once i got it right, and chose the longest bearing plants that there must be. The produce from late Spring thru first frost.
That was just luck, but these 5 pants became 75 plants by there frst Spring, and I have no idea how many there are now, as I must wait to divide them this coming spring.
I tried 6 times to count all the new runners and filed, as it is just to confusing, and my counts ended with a total of just 200 plants, which is wrong, very wrong, and I suspect the real count will be closer to 1,000 plants.
Lots of bear bait, and not what I really want, but I like the berries.
Also I admitt being lucky with the location. Not even locals know this place exists. You can't see it from anywhere except the air.
In Shtf to me I figure i can chain the far end of the road into here, and hang a sign on it saying Old Town Dump, CLOSED, and most people will take that as gosspel.
I do have a question to anyone... I don't believe I will get the answer, but I will ask anyway.
There is a insect known as the Japanese Beetle here which is a royal pain, and I simply refuse to use bug killers on food I will eat.
Over this past growing season I found scat, and it was full of Japanese Beetle wings! I looked hard and found no produce in the scat, and so I desire what ever critter this is. But what critter is it?
John - thanks for the clarification. I appreciate what you and everyone else has said here. I learn so much from great folks like you and as I keep reading threads and posts here, I'm thankful that I found this great board.
Macmac:
I found this info for you...
...certain birds (such as the meadowlark and cardinal) and small mammals are significant predators on the adult form....
Natural repellents include catnip, chives, garlic, and tansy, as well as the remains of dead beetles. Additionally, when present in small numbers, the beetles may be manually controlled using a soap-water spray mixture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_beetle
Your predator may be weasels or common house cats, I reacon. I know that groundhogs also eat beetles.
Macmac:
I found this info for you...
...certain birds (such as the meadowlark and cardinal) and small mammals are significant predators on the adult form....
Natural repellents include catnip, chives, garlic, and tansy, as well as the remains of dead beetles. Additionally, when present in small numbers, the beetles may be manually controlled using a soap-water spray mixture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_beetle
Your predator may be weasels or common house cats, I reacon. I know that groundhogs also eat beetles.
Last edited:
JImbothefiveth
Member
It might be appropriate in general, but I think it's off-topic here.
c_jackson
Member
It's always been my experience: move, initially move fast, as you move farther away from populated areas move slower but keep moving until you find signs of organization or order. Once you, the head of your family, make first contact remotely, join. If the group you join, hopefully benign (anyone with common sense would know) is like yours, relax. Plan your next step, always taking your family in account. You'll know what to do from there. Human beings are migratory animals, like herds, unnervingly like cattle. Without our technology and "intelligence", we bear a striking resemblance to sheep. We stampede easily, are prone to panic and are basically afraid of everything and anything. I've read the posts about Zombie Apocalypse, people watch too many movies. We'll regress to our baser instincts and our pet dogs and cats would do better than us. If SHTF, we're basically cooked and done as a species. In the end, it won't matter what we do. Fuel will run out, food will run out, we'll be reduced to our lowest common denominator. Technology will eventually fail us so the point is pointless. Our best bet is to stick together and make the best of what's left.
I don't think that'll happen, though. We have the capability to prevent the same destruction we are capable of producing. The end scenario won't happen as long as people fall back on one another. I don't think it will ever happen.
C Jackson
I don't think that'll happen, though. We have the capability to prevent the same destruction we are capable of producing. The end scenario won't happen as long as people fall back on one another. I don't think it will ever happen.
C Jackson
c_jackson
Member
I did a little time in the Middle East, I saw how the civilians there handled SHTF scenarios. The old time Gulf War vets know what I'm talking about. That was a test of humanity, they didn't even have weapons. Answer your questions?
c_jackson
Member
Oh shoot, as to the rest, I answered as many questions on the other posts as I could. I just compressed it into one post. Sorry, guys, sometimes I do that. With your kind indulgence, forgive me.
C Jackson
C Jackson
expvideo
Member
You forgot about New Orleans after Katrina. People had to deal with those things.
Depends on your strategy. I personally would want to get the people I know about to my family's remote ranch property, but that's in a bordering state so it's going to be a long hike. So yes, I agree that going somewhere more remote is a good strategy, but that's just my strategy. Other people may be better prepared for something different.
Hey, choose your weapons carefully for what you think you will need them for. I'll be carrying a battle rifle because I am concerned about having to deal with people that want to hurt my group. I am also more comfortable with a battle rifle. It's all personal choice. Same with staying in the cities. Also a personal choice. Your SHTF plan is not necessarily the best plan for everyone else. A guy that has prepared for a SHTF situation by stocking up on food and barracading his house would be unwise to leave, when he hasn't prepared for a trip to some remote location. If you've prepared for the trip, it's probably unwise to stay in the city. It all depends on what you have planned and prepared for.
Sounds like you have a solid plan. Good for you. Sounds similar to my plan.
The number 1 problem with most people's SHTF (TEOTWAWKI / Jericho type incident) scenario is that they have got it wrong there too. There is this belief that everything will stop.
Let's take Jericho, the US was hit in 25 cities with Nukes by terrorits. They hit the US, not Canada or Mexico, so goods and services would still be moving over the border. In towns (like Lubbock Texas and many small towns in Texas) with their own grid I doubt anything would change.
There were stores and trading posts located in the heart of Apache and Commanche country in a time when there was no power, no phones or radios. Seriously people, the idea that if our power disappears we resort to the stone age is a little misplaced.
EDIT - Think about the old west. They survived some unbelievably challenging conditions with none of the toys that we have today. Goods and services still flowed over the border, barter was more common... I think that there is a lot to be taken from that.
EDIT AGAIN-
To the question of why a battle rifle (AK / AR Type) instead of a "hunting rifle"? What is the difference? None. Compare a semi auto Remington to an AK and do you know what is different? Nothing. Both actions were originally designed for war, but that goes for about all the rifles ever used ever.
An AK is a hunting rifle, that is my point. Thinking that it isn't, or is some how "over kill" is what the Anti's think.
Regarding the contact with Army, well that is a major concern of mine. Let's just put it into todays terms. I am not worried about a criminal kicking in my door to do a B and E while I am at home. I am not concerned about a lot of criminals doing it. I am terrified that the police will get the wrong house though. It has happened more than a few times. There is a guy on Death Row in Mississippi, a policeman got the wrong house, he fired, LEO died now he is in jail...
Army and LEO in a SHTF situation will have the color of law. The worse the SHTF situation is, the more than can and will be perverted. It is human nature.
Let's take Jericho, the US was hit in 25 cities with Nukes by terrorits. They hit the US, not Canada or Mexico, so goods and services would still be moving over the border. In towns (like Lubbock Texas and many small towns in Texas) with their own grid I doubt anything would change.
There were stores and trading posts located in the heart of Apache and Commanche country in a time when there was no power, no phones or radios. Seriously people, the idea that if our power disappears we resort to the stone age is a little misplaced.
EDIT - Think about the old west. They survived some unbelievably challenging conditions with none of the toys that we have today. Goods and services still flowed over the border, barter was more common... I think that there is a lot to be taken from that.
EDIT AGAIN-
To the question of why a battle rifle (AK / AR Type) instead of a "hunting rifle"? What is the difference? None. Compare a semi auto Remington to an AK and do you know what is different? Nothing. Both actions were originally designed for war, but that goes for about all the rifles ever used ever.
An AK is a hunting rifle, that is my point. Thinking that it isn't, or is some how "over kill" is what the Anti's think.
Regarding the contact with Army, well that is a major concern of mine. Let's just put it into todays terms. I am not worried about a criminal kicking in my door to do a B and E while I am at home. I am not concerned about a lot of criminals doing it. I am terrified that the police will get the wrong house though. It has happened more than a few times. There is a guy on Death Row in Mississippi, a policeman got the wrong house, he fired, LEO died now he is in jail...
Army and LEO in a SHTF situation will have the color of law. The worse the SHTF situation is, the more than can and will be perverted. It is human nature.
BHP FAN
Member
''Army and LEO in a SHTF situation will have the color of law. The worse the SHTF situation is, the more that can and will be perverted. It is human nature...''
That's right, remember Katrina.The local government was much more interested in disarming folks than it was in looking after their safety.
That's right, remember Katrina.The local government was much more interested in disarming folks than it was in looking after their safety.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Bolt-actions are "military type" too, you know (derived from the Mauser infantry rifle et seq), and the primary U.S. Army and USMC sniper rifle was the Winchester Model 70 in Vietnam and is the Remington 700 now.
But to your point, owning a small-caliber civilian rifle with a handgrip that sticks out and a detachable box magazine is not an "extreme measure"; more Americans own them than hunt, after all. And as I've pointed out elsewhere, my "AK" is essentially a self-loading .30-30 Winchester.
The reason I'd lean toward a small-to-intermediate-caliber autoloader for a self-defense scenario rather than a high-powered bolt-action (which is what I assume you mean by "hunting rifle") is that the latter isn't very useful for civilian defensive purposes because they tend to be unwieldy at close range; they are optimized for distance shooting, whereas an AR or AK is equally at home at 5 yards or 200 yards. High-powered bolt-actions are excellent sniper rifles, but you'd be hard pressed to make a claim of justifiable self-defense if you shoot someone at 350 yards with a .30-06.
After seeing LEO units from various states down here during Katrina, they can keep their "color of the law."
I saw many that had a storm trooper air about them, and others had an attitude of utter distain about them. NONE spoke to the people unless they absolutely HAD to. It honestly felt more like an "occupation" than it did "assistance."
No, I am not cop bashing. I just really didn't like what I saw with my own eyes.
The only LEOs that I want to see on my property in the next SHTF is my sheriff, and a couple State Policemen-- I went to High School with them, and we are still friends.
Non-Local LEO in an affected zone, from my experience, do not seem to be able to stop themselves from seeing everyone as if they are in their "custody."
-- John
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