Sighted in the AR today with the sights.

[CoalCrackerAl]

Shot it at 25 yards for the sights. It took 8 shots to get on target. The last 12 in the mag i put in a 1x3 sticker. I didn't get a pic of the target. These are the stickers i use.

 

[35 Whelen]

25 yds.?

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Yes 25 yards. I wouldn't be able to see the sticker at 50 with the irons. The front post probably would cover it.

 

[12Bravo20]

25 yds.?

The US Army standard is to sight in the M16 and M4 at 25 meters (27.34 yards) with iron sights for a 25M/300M zero. The US Marines sight in at 36 yard zero for a 36Y/300Y zero. All M16 and AR iron sights are design to use these sight in distances. The only exception is some 9mm AR rear sights that are calibrated for 50 yards.

To use the rear elevation drum on the A2 or M4 one will want to zero at 25 meters or 36 yards for the numbers on the elevation dial to match up to actual trajectory.

 

[35 Whelen]

The US Army standard is to sight in the M16 and M4 at 25 meters (27.34 yards) with iron sights for a 25M/300M zero. The US Marines sight in at 36 yard zero for a 36Y/300Y zero. All M16 and AR iron sights are design to use these sight in distances. The only exception is some 9mm AR rear sights that are calibrated for 50 yards.

To use the rear elevation drum on the A2 or M4 one will want to zero at 25 meters or 36 yards for the numbers on the elevation dial to match up to actual trajectory.

Right. My dad was in the Army in the '50's and he told me they initially shot their Garands on the "1000 Inch Range", which is 27 yds. But this was NOT sighting in the rifles, it was merely a way to get them "on paper" prior to moving to 100, 200, 300 and 500 yds. (yes...yards, not meters)

So to the OP (and others), after you sight in at 25, do you verify POI at further distances?

35W

 

[12Bravo20]

While everyone should verify their 300 year/meter zero, that is not always done for many reasons such as access to a 300 yard/meter range. There were times that this was not even done in the US Army. We would have troops zero their weapons at 25 meters then have them shoot for qualification on targets out to 300 meters.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I'll take it out further on cans then. And when i go to the range with the steel out to 300 yards i'll try on the steel too. Main reason i did the sights was if my scope craps out in a SHTF event.

 

[usaral63]

Right. My dad was in the Army in the '50's and he told me they initially shot their Garands on the "1000 Inch Range", which is 27 yds. But this was NOT sighting in the rifles, it was merely a way to get them "on paper" prior to moving to 100, 200, 300 and 500 yds. (yes...yards, not meters)

So to the OP (and others), after you sight in at 25, do you verify POI at further distances

35W

I was one of the last to do basic with the Garand.....in fact I transitioned thru the 14 and 16 series......one small correction is that we shot at 600, not five, and yep it was in yards.........I recall a range estimation exercise wherein we had to guesstimate iln meters...........nearly everyone screwed that up!

 

[trackskippy]

If you want to get a better feel for whats going on with what youre using, a ballistics program is a major help, and lets you make better decisions.

This is the one I use, and it works very well.

https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/calculators.shtml

Its only as good as the info you plug in though, so keep that in mind, none of this stuff is perfect.

As an example, I use a 55 grain FMJBT with my reloads for practice. According to the manuals, they should be running right around 3000fps out of whatever it is they use to test them. Out of my 16" rifles, they are running consistently at right around 2700fps.

Heres a run on the above calculator for that load wit a 50 yards zero.

https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

One thing nice with this is, you can keep changing up the zeros and see what gives you the best/flatest trajectory over whatever distance.

Ive found the 50 yard zero works the best there for me. If you plug in a 25 yard zero, and its quite a bit different, and youd be 6" high at 100, and 8" high at 200. It does push your distances out a bit further, but the trajectory is more rainbow in between.

With this program too, you can set/fiddle with your PBR/BSZ to whatever you want and it will tell you where you stand there too. It will tell you what to zero to, to keep all the rounds in that diameter circle through the max range it sets.

Theres a ton of stuff you can do with it, but I normally just use it when zeroing a new caliber or load and just basic stuff. If you want to drive yourself crazy, the state hospital can get you a room.

All the military rifles Ive used in the past seem to have a BSZ of around 300 Y/M. Not sure what they use for a vital zone though. Most of the game loads seem to use something like 8".

The whole point there, either way, is to zero the rifle so you dont have to mess with the sights out to realistic distances. Just hold on and shoot, and the round will stay within that circle. Might be at the top or bottom, or anywhere in between. So when you zero, you want POA/POI to be the same, dont zero it like a target rifle wit a 6 o' clock hold, at a known distance.


Ive been playing with a couple of the Vortex Strike Eagles on a couple of my AR's. Never really been a scope shooter, bet I am really getting to like these. They suggest zeroing at 50 yards with them.

This sight has some good info and some good graphics that let you visualize whats going on with different zeros.....

http://www.arma-dynamics.com/zero-considerations.html

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I need to start using the chronograph on my loads. Im running a Vortex Diamondback tactical 6x24x50 on mine.

 

[trackskippy]

It is a big help and can be quite an eye-opener compared to what youre told things are on the box or online, especially if youre using guns with shorter barrels. You can make more realistic decisions with "your" stuff.

I dont use mine a lot, but Im glad I have it and it does come in handy.

 

[trackskippy]

One other thing to consider if youre zeroing up close, 25yards or so, is to take into account the sight height offset. At closer ranges, that 2.5-2.75" difference shows on the target with a longer zero. At 25 yards and in, you need to hold high to allow for it.

 

[12Bravo20]

If you follow the BSZ instructions in the Army and Marine manuals then you will be fine with a 25M/36Y zero with standard iron sights out to 300. Both methods compensate for trajectory and more importantly the marks on the rear elevation drum will match up as they should.

Sighting in any type of optic from a red dot to a high power scope is different and one can pick what ever sight in distance works best for their use.

 

[GBExpat]

25 yds.?

For decades I have initially sighted all of my rifles at ~25yds.

At that range the results are more of a test of the rifles' accuracy than of my eyesight.

Get them zero'd at 25 (I like to take into account a bullet drop swag for my preferred zero range) and when you move to finalize that setting at 100 you are only tweaking elevation.

 

[Charlie98]

We would have troops zero their weapons at 25 meters then have them shoot for qualification on targets out to 300 meters.

That's what we did, circa 1986... with M16A1's, 20" barrel, with M193. The 25M zero translates to a 250M zero, with the M16A1 sights and 55grn ammos. I shot 38 of 40 out to 300M, so I'mma guess it worked pretty well.



ETA: Those were the first 6 rounds of 5.56mm ammos I'd ever fired. To say life was never the same would be an understatement...

 

[trackskippy]

The problem with the AR's these days is, there are so many different guns, sights, and ammo for them, there really is no one proper answer here. Just the one that works best for whatever your use is. I have a feeling, most just zero for the distance they normally plan on shooting them and dont give it much thought beyond that.

Ive always considered the AR's to be 250-300 yard guns anyway. Not saying you cant shoot them farther, simply that they start losing that ballistic edge around there, and beyond that, youre basically punching .22 caliber holes. Not that Id want to get hit with one either way.

For me, most of my guns have red dots with BUIS, and now, a couple of scopes thrown in, and for most of those, the BSZ is fine, as it covers most realistic and likely distances with just one POA.

Its kind of a moot point anyway, unless you have an A2 type rear sight, as there are no elevation adjustments available for most BUIS's anyway, and the only gun with irons only on it I have, is an old Colt SP1, which has the A1 type rear sights, and theres no adjustment there either. So for those, its all Kentucky hold over beyond the BSZ anyway.

The 50 zero provides the best BSZ for my uses, as it has the flattest trajectory of the three usually suggested, 25/36/50. There is very little rise along its trajectory compared to the others, and the only noticeable drop is out past 275. Its about -12" at 300.

If youre running a BUIS, pick your poison and dont worry about it. If you have to use them, and they are shooting back, Im thinking your fine motor skills and precision-type shooting went out the window with the sound of the first incoming round whizzing by, so whats it matter.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Yeah i have to adjust elevation via the front sight. 1st time i had to do that.

 

[trackskippy]

There are actually a number of guns that use the front sight for initial elevation zero. Some guns, like the FR8 and AK, use it for windage too.

 

[lobo9er]

I start at 25 as well not sure why anyone would be critical of the OP. Irons on my slug gun and 44 are sighted at 25 then check POI at 50... covers the bases for those. Mostly for thicker woods or walking doing deer drives.

 

[Riomouse911]

This is a general zero chart giving an idea of where a bullet fired from a 16” AR should land between 50-300 yards. (400 for the 300 yd zero.) Obviously it isn’t gospel, as everyone should sight their own gun with their load(s) of choice at distance, but it does give an idea of what to expect.



I issued 64 gr .223 ammo and we zeroed our rifles at 50 yards (Mini 14 and then AR 15 when we swapped), as a hold at center mass should result in a torso hit to 300 yards.

300 yds is a long poke for duty guns, but in the open desert regions of the County I worked for 300 yds is easily a range one my be shot at by illegal dope growers or other crooks.

Stay safe.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I like that Riomouse. It will help me with my 300 yard steel. I have a hard time with it. 250 I have no problems. I thought it was all in my mind with the 300. Im going to re-zero the scope at 50. Thanks a bunch.

 

[Charlie98]

The problem with the AR's these days is, there are so many different guns, sights, and ammo for them, there really is no one proper answer here.

This is a general zero chart giving an idea of where a bullet fired from a 16” AR should land between 50-300 yards.

I've not checked on what the 16" barrel does with the 25M zero, but as Rio's charts show, inside 300M (or yards, whatever....) the 25M zero gets it done.

Ive always considered the AR's to be 250-300 yard guns anyway.

I've always considered that Truth as well. Even with a scope, making hits at 400M, etc is an iffy thing... on live targets, not paper. There's no doubt you can go beyond 300M on paper... duh... but I think the effective value of the 5.56mm round diminishes rather quickly beyond 300M, and particularly in a 16" (or shorter) AR.

 

[DMW1116]

What sights are you using? I made a M16 A4gery from a PSA premium kit and added a PSA branded carry handle sight. Since I'm shooting hand loads, the values on the elevation drum don't match so I just have to either note the marks and what they correspond to for my loads or count clicks and just dial up or down. It's currently set for my 77 grain SMK load but I tried some RMR 69 grain projectiles, and they shot better so I will probably switch to those after the Sierras run out. I need to confirm that wasn't a fluke. I can recommend the Magpul MBUS flip-up sights as well. I've shot them to 200 yards. They don't have an elevation drum, but they work once zeroed. I have them zeroed for 50 yards on my scoped 16" rifle (with detachable mount). Try those iron sights out on some NRA 50-yard small bore rifle targets. The holes will still be 22 caliber.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

The ones that came with it from S&W. I think they are the magpul. They do flip up. The have a peep aperture.