Sights or Target, Where to Focus?

[DrewBegley]

In training, I've been taught half and half to either look through my sights and focus on my target or to find my front sight post and place it over my target. When push comes to shove, I'm using my self defense carry handgun to place shots no more than 15 feet away; does anyone NEED their sights for that close of a shot (also keeping in mind most confrontations are closer than that even). When you train, what do you focus on more, hitting your target or sight alignment and which is more efficient to learn for self defense?

 

[Jeffhole]

I always line up my target, sight in and kinda look back and forth until I'm ready to fire. I notice that I do, however, spend more time looking at the sights than the target.

 

[DrewBegley]

But you have to imagine, training how you fight, you won't be able to wait until you're "ready" to shoot. It's a fast draw, fire and a follow-up shot or two to eliminate a threat, the shots matter when it happens and you aren't on the square range.

 

[allaroundhunter]

For most self-defense engagements it will be instinctive shooting. With handguns, you generally naturally line up with what you are looking at (especially within 15 ft). Therefore, I spend a lot of training time with quick double taps, not necessarily getting a clear sight picture, but more looking at my target. Then I throw in some slightly further shooting trying to get a decent sight picture before breaking the shot.

 

[Zoogster]

The majority of real life self defense scenarios that happen each year in the United States never require the firearm to be fired.
This means in the majority of likely situations watching the target, what they are doing, where their hands are, and keeping track of what they might be planning to do is far more important than studying the sight on your firearm.


When you are at the range you have already made the decision to shoot, and your target does nothing but sit there so you don't have to watch it.
In real life situations you are quite likely to be watching your target if the situation goes from aiming a gun at them to a need to fire that gun at them.




There is a percentage of scenarios where you will need to quick draw and fire as mentioned by others in the thread, but statistically they are the minority of scenarios. Most of the time a gun is used in self defense no shots are fired, no gun owner goes through a lengthy and expensive resulting trial, and the life of the criminal is spared.
In those tense situations you would need to be watching the target very carefully. If the need to fire arose you will likely already be watching the target, and have a brief moment to react. There may not be enough time to adjust your vision and shoot as you trained by focusing on the sight if that is the only way you have trained and become accustomed to shooting accurately.

 

[Japle]

You can learn a lot watching shooters run the "Smoke & Hope" stage at a steel match and asking them where their focus is on the 18"X24" targets at 7 and 9 yds. It's amazing how many people miss some of those four big targets completely, whether they're using the sights or point-shooting the way most of us do. If you "take your time in a hurry", you can get hits faster by focusing on the target at close range, but your accuracy isn't going to be very good at all. If you focus on the sights, your accuracy will still be crappy and you'll probably be a little slower.

In a match, shooters are trying to get hits as fast as possible. Not center-mass hits, just hits. Nobody's trying to kill them. The only thing on the line is their ego.

Now imaging how well they'd shoot if the targets were shooting back.

My point? Hope the other guy starts the fight at 50 yds and you have cover.

 

[Bobson]

Focus on your target. Its faster, more natural, and far more precise.

I dunno why anyone would ever advise you to focus on your sights. It forces you to switch back and forth between the sights and the target, which takes long and still allows for the chance that you'll move your weapon off the target. Pair that with the fact that focusing on your sight blurs your target considerably. Test it: pick an object in the room or outside about ten yards away. Hold up your index and middle fingers as if making the peace sign, then turn your hand sideways, so you have a makeshift rear and front sight. Line up on the target while focusing on your "sights." You probably can't see the target for crap. I sure can't. Now focus on the target. You should be able to line up your fingers just fine, as if aligning your sights. Additionally, your target is nice and clear.

Focusing on your sight is an absolute waste of time, in every sense.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Wow! No wonder there's so much bad shooting out there...

You focus on the front sight, leaving the target and rear sight slightly blurred.

 

[Zoogster]

A lot of teachers teach students to focus on the front sight because it simplifies pointing the gun at the target and firing in a hurry. Many of the students will not be shooting much in the future, and will have minimal practice if and when they ever need to use it in defense.
The typical woman who comes in to get her CCW license, and will not be shooting for recreation is such an example. No offense to women there is many that are better than I will ever be, but every guy that goes shooting knows there is few women at ranges, competitions, or shooting for recreation. Of those that are there they are often doing it because a male encouraged them to go and wouldn't be there otherwise.
Yet there is almost an equal number of men and women obtaining carry permits, so clearly most of the women do not practice shooting much.
There is many men that also fall into this category, including even some police officers and military that only fire their gun to qualify on rare occasion.
A lot of people buy a gun, then keep it around in case but don't shoot for recreation and may not have fired a gun in years before they need it for defense.
These people can be better served by such tactics because it does not require intimate familiarity with the firearm, how it points without looking at it, and shooting by feel.
They can simply put the front sight on the close target and fire. Much like using a red dot sight.


For someone that plans to shoot regularly they can benefit from more involved practice. But they will need more rounds and more regular practice to fluidly point and shoot their gun without looking at it than the person that is just putting the front sight on the target at close range.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Oh, I don't know... I've shot Sharps rifles at 500 yards plus focusing on the front sight and handguns at any range from 5 to 100 yards using the front sight. I've been doing that for 40 years and I've never heard any good instructor teach anything but using the front sight.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I've been taught that there is a time and a place to give attention to getting a proper sight picture. When target shooting or engaging a threat at distance (distance being relative to the weapon in your hand) a good sight picture is a yes. However, if you are being attacked and do not have the time to obtain a visual on the front sight, you should know how to shoot instinctively (point-shooting).

 

[Fred Fuller]

Drew,

Where are you getting your training, if I might ask? Does your instructor have you starting from a low ready position, or from the holster? If from the holster, what drawstroke are you learning?

In general, if there is time and room to get the pistol up to eye level and out to full extension, the sights should be used in at least a 'flash' sight picture. The old combat pistol shooter's mantra is FRONT SIGHT, PRESS for a reason. Some trainers (notably the late Jim Cirillo) used a coarser visual index based on the shape of the pistol in silhouette rather than the sights themselves, for quick shooting at close range (http://www.spw-duf.info/point.html#cirillo).

There are few absolutes where gunfighting is concerned, save that to end the fight you have to get hits on your target, and the faster you get hits on your target the less shot you are likely to get. In general, proper use of sights is conducive to getting fast hits on your target.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Focusing on your sight is an absolute waste of time, in every sense.

I guess that's why probably 99% of the combat shooting instructors out there teach it that way, and have for decades. I'm sure it doesn't work at all.

You want to focus on the target completely so that when you are shooting at him, and missing, you can see what he's about to do to you.

There are certainly a few teaching point shooting but they are definitely in the minority today.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Focusing on your sight is an absolute waste of time, in every sense.

I guess that's why probably 99% of the combat shooting instructors out there teach it that way, and have for decades. I'm sure it doesn't work at all.

You want to focus on the target completely so that when you are shooting at him, and missing, you can see what he's about to do to you.

I agree with TexasRifleman. I know he's recent been to Gunsite, and I've trained there. With good training and practice, it's amazing how quickly one can shoot accurately using a flash sight picture and focusing on the front sight.

In the words of Jeff Cooper:

Blessed are those who, in the face of death, focus on the front sight.

 

[Hk Dan]

Okay, the real answer is sort of a non-answer. What you focus on depends on how much deviation control you need to make the shot. That's controlled by 3 things--your confidence in your ability to make the shot, the target itself, and the perceived consequence of a miss. You have to be able to put rounds on taret as quickly as possible, so you have to use the Focus type (1-5) that best suits your need for deviation control.

Type 1--target focus. Only for the closest, easiest, no consequence for a miss shots.
Type 2--Flash sight picture, usually with two images of sights. Line one up roughly and let her go.
Type 3--Front sight focus. Switch back to the target when making transitions or as needed to realign.
Type 4--Focus only on the front sight
Type 5--look at the front sight, but focus on trigger control. Picture shooting at clay pigeons on the berm at 100 yards.

Hope that helped. Don't listen to anyone who thinks there is one and only one answer to your question; there isn't. You have to switch on the fly to make the best combat accurate shot that you can as quickly as you can--and at times it will be quicker to use the sights!

 

[Frank Ettin]

...You have to be able to put rounds on taret as quickly as possible, so you have to use the Focus type (1-5) that best suits your need for deviation control.

Type 1--target focus. Only for the closest, easiest, no consequence for a miss shots.
Type 2--Flash sight picture, usually with two images of sights. Line one up roughly and let her go.
Type 3--Front sight focus. Switch back to the target when making transitions or as needed to realign.
Type 4--Focus only on the front sight
Type 5--look at the front sight, but focus on trigger control. Picture shooting at clay pigeons on the berm at 100 yards....

Not sure where you got this, but here's what Gregory Morrison, author of The Modern Technique of the Pistol, said about the flash sight picture (Morrison, Gregory, The Modern Technique of the Pistol, Gunsite Press, 1991, pp 87 - 88):

...Sight-alignment is simply the proper alignment of the front sight with the rear sight. Sight-picture combines sight-alignment with superimposition upon a selected target. These basic principles common to all sighted fire are applied much differently, however, with the Modern Technique.

The flash sight-picture involves a glimpse of the sight-picture sufficient to confirm alignment....The target shooter’s gaze at the front sight has proven inappropriate for the bulk of pistolfighting. However, the practical shooter must start at this level and work up to the flash, which becomes reflexive as motor skills are refined. With practice, a consistent firing platform and firing stroke align the sights effortlessly. This index to the target eventually becomes an instantaneous confirmation of the sight-picture.

...Using the flash sight-picture programs the reflex of aligning the weapon’s sights with the target instantly....There is good reason for sights: one needs them to align the barrel with the target reliably....

 

[RE-15]

Same as previous post. Practice with a clear focused front site. Skill comes with being able to aquire correct site picture quickly and the ability to vary the degree of focus needed for the given range and target size

 

[Deaf Smith]

Drew,

Practice with your sights but make your technique so it always brings the gun into sighted alignment as you present it.

That is, as you draw and bring the gun forward it should have the sights pretty much in alignment so all you have to do is verify the alignment before firing.

You do this by memorising the hold and angle of the weapon as you are holding it everytime you shoot.

And then if you cannot see the sights for one of many reasons (low light, lost ones glasses, damaged or lost sights, etc..) still bring the weapon up AS IF YOU COULD SEE THE SIGHTS to the same position.

Deaf

 

[Zoogster]

The sights should always be used except for extremely close shots where missing does not pose lethal threat to others, but there is a difference between looking at the front sight and looking through or over the sights.

If you get familiar with a firearm you can point it where you are looking and be pretty close, so the sights are only necessary to add a slight adjustment or track randomly moving targets.

For a test see if you can take your handgun in your hand by your side, look where you want to aim at some small target, close your eyes, quickly bring your gun up aligned with where your sight picture will be and aimed at the target, then open your eyes and if you find your pistol aimed at what you wanted to hit and lined up with your eye when you look through the sights without making any adjustment then you don't really need to focus your vision on the front sight to use that pistol. Try it on a target in front of you, to your sides, and make sure it is a fairly small target.
Be honest with yourself, if you need to bring the sight into focus to shoot well then do so.
I can do it quite well with a two handed grip, and some guns are off with a one handed grip.

Most self defense situations are within 7 yards, many much closer, and while your adrenaline and being shot at will make you a worse shot, humans are large targets and not particularly difficult to hit.


I know I can clearly see the front sight while looking at the target within 5 yards, and never need to actually focus my vision on the front sight. I can see the sight slightly better, and the target and peripheral objects worse if I look at the sight.
Within 3 yards or 10 feet the typical range a bad guy will make himself known in public aiming at specific spots without ever focusing on the sights is not difficult.
So actually putting my front sight into focus to hit anything larger than an orange at that range is a waste of vision.

Now if I used a firearm I was not familiar with or don't handle often I would need to check the sights to insure they were aligned right and may find myself bringing them into focus when doing so.


More precision shots at distance, and typical rifle shooting with iron sights make a lot more precision use of the sights to make slight adjustments that make a bigger difference. But close range with a pistol bringing the sights into clear focus would be mainly to compete or shoot small groups to try and impress people, not hit something as large as a head or center of a torso at the expense of seeing the target and possibly their accomplice clearly.
But everyone is different, and you need to be accountable for where you put your rounds.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'm using my self defense carry handgun to place shots no more than 15 feet away; does anyone NEED their sights for that close of a shot

One should see (verify) the target and then focus on the front sight (and it's alignment in the rear notch) as you press the trigger if it is really important to you to hit your target. The less you intend to practice, the harder you need to focus on the front sight.

So I guess the answer is YES you need to see your sights at 15 feet. When I started in LE, we were actually taught to point shoot. The gun was held at waist level in one hand while the other hand formed a fist and covered your heart...it came from the FBI. Using this technique, I've seen shooters miss from as close as 6 feet and I've seen folks shooting from Retention miss from as close as 3 feet

When you train, what do you focus on more, hitting your target or sight alignment and which is more efficient to learn for self defense?

It is more efficient to learn sight alignment when shooting. The feedback from sighted practice will provide invaluable skill if you neglect sight focus when shooting under pressure. Neglecting sighted practice will only result in repeated misses and the inability to make corrections

 

[mortablunt]

I focus on the sights because aimed fire has a wonderful tendency to hit the target. Instinct shooting has less consistently wonderful results. My brain will let me know when it's time to fire, because I'll get that tingling warmth in my fingers.

 

[DrewBegley]

I haven't at all attended any formal training other than room-clearing techniques with "2 in the chest, one in the head" montros from my Dad through the Army. A friend of mine is a competition Glock shooter and I've spent plenty of time on the range with him being taught flash and precision shots, but don't ask me the terms to know because I'm not being told them when we put them into use. I've spent time on jury-rigged square ranges with friends who have learned from the greats like Rob Pincus, but I've only ever learned second-hand. I'm young and new-er to the sport of shooting, but firearms have been an important part of my law enforcement/military life and it isn't until the past 3 years that I've even been able to put rounds downrange.


It's pretty funny stuff that people think intuitive shooting "misses". I only use this type of shooting when the time calls for very close, very fast shots. I'm not shooting intuitively at 30+ yards because I'm sure I'll have troubles hitting what I'm looking at, for that I gain a very quick sight picture and touch, press. Point is, if you're firing shots intuitively at the distances required for that type of reaction and missing, you might be doing something wrong or don't fully understand the concept.

I also understand to point shoot, you must first be fully comfortable and accurate using your sights, I'm at that level fortunately and tend to proceed to the next step. Also as 9mmepiphany says about how they learned to shoot from the hip, I'd rather not. I'm at least going to put the gun between me and my target (doesn't surprise me that guys miss that shot).

I'm sure there's a point that I haven't responded to, with work and little internet access I have to respond in bulk in the middle of the night. I'm sorry I couldn't respond to individual lessons as they came.

 

[Fred Fuller]

It's pretty funny stuff that people think intuitive shooting "misses".

Drew,

People don't just "think" that intuitive shooting misses. There are ample gunfight statistics from the law enforcement community (about the only place out there that even tries to measure its own success rate in gunfights) that back up this point of view.

Training is always evolving because the state of the art is always changing. Other than the training provided to military Tier One operators and the equivalent, the best defensive firearms training provided in the world today is available from the community of professional trainers in the USA who mostly train armed citizens. All too often, the military and LE agencies in the US tend to be hidebound and mired in the past as far as firearms training is concerned.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I always focus on the front sight during training. To my mind, there are several reasons for this:

1. It produces consistent, good results.
2. The good habits and muscle memory it builds help a great deal in "point shooting" as described by Deaf Smith in #18.

 

[MrBorland]

...You have to be able to put rounds on taret as quickly as possible, so you have to use the Focus type (1-5) that best suits your need for deviation control.

Type 1--target focus. Only for the closest, easiest, no consequence for a miss shots.
Type 2--Flash sight picture, usually with two images of sights. Line one up roughly and let her go.
Type 3--Front sight focus. Switch back to the target when making transitions or as needed to realign.
Type 4--Focus only on the front sight
Type 5--look at the front sight, but focus on trigger control. Picture shooting at clay pigeons on the berm at 100 yards....

Not sure where you got this,

This would be from Brian Enos, IIRC. His focus may not be SD, but he knows a thing or 2 about shooting accurately quickly.

Some discussion here about front sight/target as though it's an either/or thing. When shooting at speed at up to 10-ish yards, I'm looking at the target, but through the sights. I am seeing the sight alignment I need to make the hit, but it's my subconscious that's doing the seeing. Maintaining a good index helps tremendously.

For longer, tougher shots, my primary focus is on the front sight, with my subconscious very much aware of the target.

Front sight or target, you need to look at one of them, and be very much aware of the other. Trouble comes in when you're not really looking at either, and/or not simultaneously aware of the other.