Sikhs and guns?

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MatthewVanitas

MatthewVanitas

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I had a question about Sikhs and guns (particularly regarding Sikhs in America). In a few posts on TFL covered this in brief, but I thought it was a pretty interesting subject.

[On a minor sidenote, many confuse a "sikh", practioner of a Northern Indian religion, with "sheikh", a Bedouin chief. Two totally separate concepts]

In any case, as I understand it, Sikhs have a religion that's somewhat of a synthesis between Islam and Hinduism. Their religion requires certain outward signs of faith: uncut hair, a turban, special drawers, a comb, steel bracelet, and a sword; all of which must be on the person at all times.

The www.sikhs.org website says that the sword is purely ceremonial and symbolic. Is that just P.C. junk? Is that tradition originally part of a true madate for self protection?

If self-protection is an inherent part of Sikhism, do modern Sikhs in America show greater interest in firearms than your average American? Do any Sikhs substitute a Spyderco or CCW for the little jewelry swords most Sikhs carry?

If there are any Sikhs on the board, I'd be very curious to hear their viewpoint. Thanks for any info. -MV
 
My understanding that there were Sikh regiments in the British Army and quite tough disciplined fighters, other than that Sikhism is something I dont know a heck of a lot about.


WildmyeyedoctorwasSihkAlaska
 
For the Sikh, wearing a sword (or representation) is part of the 5 K s. Whether they wear a real sword, knife, or other weapon may depend on geography. The Khalsa was developed as a group of warriors for self-defense. So in the Punjab they may well still be the 'real deal'. If you read the history of the British in India you will find the Sikhs were real soldiers. Often their armaments were more sophisticated then the British. The Sikh warrior ethic was a necessity as the Moslems attempted to put the Sikhs down for being followers of a false religion. IIRC, one Sikh Guru was sawn in half, and another boiled alive. The one bright spot in relations was Dara Shikoh and his treatise 'The Confluence of the Two Seas'. Durn, I have not looked at that for more than a decade.

I have some American convert friends and try to attend Gurdwara once a month. After getting to know some 'originals' better I plan on inviting them shooting. Probably trap and skeet.

Ek Ong Kar, God is One. Wahe guruji ke fateh!

Edit: Dara Shikoh was later killed by his brother, a very intolerant follower of the prophet.
 
A Sikh runs the local gas station-convenience store. He proudly showed me his .455 Webley which he brought over from "home." Keeps it behind the counter.

The local cops know. They sit down behind the deli counter, reading newspapers when on break. Hard to spot them when the Crown Vic is parked around back.
 
Having talked to several, they explained that the knives they carried (4" fixed blades, curved) could not be drawn except in defense of human life. Which could involve combat, or cutting an accident victim's seat belt or similar "emergency utility use".

The concept is very clearly related to self and community defense, with "community" defined more broadly than "Sikhs".
 
Very proud people

Sikh is a religion that has a core belief that all men are warrior/protector and honor is not something that you can set aside.
They have always been a very brave and resolute soldier on the battlefield.
I always have at least one knife on me(shower excepted!), although I wouldn't classify anything I regularly carry as a weapon. Just utility.
 
.
Having talked to several, they explained that the knives they carried (4" fixed blades, curved) could not be drawn except in defense of human life.
Click to expand...


A Sikh had to drawl blood everytime he pulled a sword.

I have more swords and knives from Sikhs than I have butter knives in my house. I lived in India when I was a kid and felt pretty safe since we had a Sikh guard our apartment building 24/7.;)


I have tremendous respect for the Sikhs in India since I saw first hand the self defeating aspects of Hinduism.

Sikhs are cool.
 
Sat saree akal.

The Sikh kirpan is more of a dagger than a "sword" and most of the personal kirpans I have seen were more of a display piece than a weapon because many that I have seen didn't have a sharpened edge.

Please do not confuse Sikhs with Muslims, no connection whatsoever. The Sikhs have fought with honor in the major wars and are great warriors. Respect them. Unfortunately, years of strife between the Punjab (five waters or rivers) and the Indian government have produced generations of terrorists. There is no good side to terrorism but they have no animosity against us, it's against India. Regretfully, their terrorist activities extend to our shores for fund raising and organization. Remember, the tragic Air India bombing was carried out in Canada.

Try their food, it's great.
 
I remember when I was taking basic training back in '67, one of the recruits in my training company was a Sikh and he carried his knife (going thru the first couple of days. Somehow, he was able to keep it until the drill sargeants found out about and they went absolutely ballistic. Back in 67. they pretty much could do whatever they wanted to us but they stayed clear of this man.

The 2 DI's had the company commander come over along with some MP's and tried to ge him to give up the knife. He refused and the MP's took him away. Never saw him after that, but as I recall, I remember hearing that he did go thru training.

I remember reading about British Army units made of Sikh troops and English officers during WWII. The were every bit as tough as the Gurkha's from Nepal. You did not want to get on their bad side.
 
A Sikh had to drawl blood everytime he pulled a sword.
Click to expand...

I always thought that was a Samuri who had to draw blood every time he drew his sword ... I guess this is a tradition that could span across cultures.



I did find this ironic:

Sikhs are cool.

__________________
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side"
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:neener:
 
A Sikh runs the local gas station-convenience store. He proudly showed me his .455 Webley which he brought over from "home." Keeps it behind the counter.
Click to expand...


Wasn't there a Sikh murdered here as a (mistaken for a Muslim because of wearing a turban) revenge killing shortly after 9/11? It seems your friend might have more use for his .455 than just punks wanting to rob him.
 
A lot of the cabbies around here are Sikhs. They all seem to fall in my "good people category. And i believe that the vast majority of them carry weapons due to taxi driving being an inherently dangerous proffesion.

I remember a court case AGES ago about some kid who ran into one of those silly "zero tollerance" anti weapons laws concerning his ceremonial knife. I remember that he won (rightfully so IMHO) the right to carry it on religious grounds.

I truly have a respect for a religion that requires the carrying of a weapon who's stated purpose is EXLUSIVELY the defense of human life.
 
Wasn't there a Sikh murdered here as a (mistaken for a Muslim because of wearing a turban) revenge killing shortly after 9/11?
Click to expand...


Two Sikhs were killed in Philadelphia shortly after 9/11. All of the Sikhs I saw in the months following 9/11 had American Flags on their cars so people would take a second look at them. Its depressing at how stupid Americans can be.
 
A Sikh at work told me they often carry a big knife and a smaller one. The little one is to nick their own skin for a drop of blood to satisfy the requirement of never drawing their big blade without bloodshed.

He also noted that Sikhs share the same holidays as Hindus, such as Divali. The way he told it, Sikhs were a more militant form of Hindus who set out to defend the people who were being slaughtered by the Muslims. Another guy from the subcontinent, a Christian, predicted that we in the tolerant west will have future troubles, even civil war, because of allowing disparate groups of immigrants to settle here. He claimed that some basic prayer in the Sikh religion specifically referenced a historical Muslim atrocity against them which must never be forgotten. That was spoken before 9-11.

I think various religions and ethnic groups can cooperate if they are willing to try. The problem seems to be when some group gets it into their head that they are so powerful, have so many followers, have God or History on their side, are assured of a place in heaven or in the politbureau if they just fight the 'infidels', etc, that they can do whatever they want.
 
Incidently, Sikhs in the UK are exempted from the laws that would otherwise ban them from carrying their daggers.

I wonder if I could found a religion that demanded I carry a firearm...
 
Wasn't there a Sikh murdered here as a (mistaken for a Muslim because of wearing a turban) revenge killing shortly after 9/11?
Click to expand...

Also, here in Phoenix some dumb redneck shot a Sikh who was running his family's store shortly after 911. Phoenix cops nailed the guy and pretty much all of the Phoenix area was embarassed about it.

I would feel pretty stupid, having murdered an innocent person, only to find out that I was so ignorant that my bigotry wasn't even properly targeted.
 
I wonder if I could found a religion that demanded I carry a firearm...
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There is. It's called "The Way Of The Gun."



And It's first prophet was John Moses Browning...
 
Its depressing at how stupid Americans can be.
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Yeah ... 3 Skihs killed by idiots ... shows us 'mericans show-nuf is a stupid bunch :rolleyes:

I think the fact that violence against Moslems and other middle easterners has been almost non-existent since 9/11 kinda disproves the "Stupid, bigoted, violent American Redneck" image the rest of the world (and liberal elitists here) have tried to cultivate.

Its also fun to watch the elite media lament the lack of lynchings and such against Moslems. :rolleyes:
 
Let's not get carried away here.

I think the fact that violence against Moslems and other middle easterners has been almost non-existent
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Right after 9/11 there were attacks against non muslem middle eastern people all across the country. I'm not over playing it and I'm not under playing it. Ask Oleg about his friends book store.

It happened and it could happen again.

I'm not against weeding out fundamentalist but lets stay on target. Sikhs aren't our enemy.

Don't try and put words in my mouth.:(
 
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