Single Action Defense

[couldbeanyone]

Paul7 posted, How are our needs that much different than police?
Well, the police are expected to stop a criminal with their firearm to protect the public, we must simple escape from the situation unharmed.
The police are usually responding to a call and have advance warning that they are entering a situation. As such, they are perfectly justified arriving with a gun already in hand. Try walking through the mall, gun in hand, because you have a bad feeling, let me know how that goes for you.
These are just a couple off the top of my head. Would post more, but have to go to work.

 

[CraigC]

...the more rational posters are just pointing out that it won't work as well as a double-action or semi-auto for self defense.

No, the more "rational" posters think capacity and the ability to empty their magazine quickly will save them. We, presumably the irrational, believe that the individual's skill with his chosen weapon supersedes the equipment itself. The Indian, rather than the arrow. Situational awareness and mental preparedness supersede both.

The hammer/screwdriver is a poor analogy.

 

[farm23]

This thread is like most of the longer ones in that at some point it breaks down to 'mine's bigger than yours'. By choice I live in a small county and most of my concerns have 4 legs but we do have above normal drug problems. I often carry a 44 SA or because it does what I need. I can shoot well with any of my guns but the SA's are more instinctive and I like them best. I also carry a NAA Black Widow not so much for a fast reload but for the times I don't want to let a big 44 fly.

When I do go to a large city I carry a 1911 because for me it is easier to conceal but the SA Black Widow is still with me. Over the years there have been only 2 times when I have had to use a hand gun on persons and when the adrenalin is flowing your training is what counts.

 

[huntsman]

my Colt SAA 45 LC/45 ACP, and Colt Bisley 44 Special are both 5.5 barrel lengths. They are pretty large guns, but with the proper holster conceal good. I use an El Paso Saddlery "Crosshair." For this size gun, you will need a good belt, they are a little heavy.

I bought a Blackhawk .45 convertible for hunting and a woods gun and I have to confess to an interest in a smaller lighter .45C for occasional carry.

 

[PRM]

If you're not willing to learn how to use the most effective tool for a job

I didn't realize we were signing up for school. Over the years I have owned a number of 1911s. From Series 70 Govt Models, to the 80s Officers Model, One Colt Commander, and my last was a first edition Remington R1 which I gave to my son when he got out of the Marines. My personal preference is the Browning High Power in the large frame semi-autos. In addition, I own both Colt and S&W DA 38s.

Bottom line, I've been shooting and carrying guns for well over 40 years and I no more uncomfortable with an SAA than any other platform I own.

If that is what a person chooses to carry, that doesn't make them any more right or wrong than anyone else. It's easy when your anonymous on the internet to take a position of authority on a keyboard. Part of enjoying these forums is being able to wade through the BS.

 

[Paul7]

Paul7 posted, How are our needs that much different than police?
Well, the police are expected to stop a criminal with their firearm to protect the public, we must simple escape from the situation unharmed.
The police are usually responding to a call and have advance warning that they are entering a situation. As such, they are perfectly justified arriving with a gun already in hand. Try walking through the mall, gun in hand, because you have a bad feeling, let me know how that goes for you.
These are just a couple off the top of my head. Would post more, but have to go to work.

Distinctions without a difference. The fact is, we may need to face the same people the police do, and armed civilians do stop more crimes than the police do every year.

 

[Paul7]

I don't carry a SA revolver. If I put the time into practicing with one, I could see myself doing it. I love the feel of a nice Colt pattern SA.
For those who think it is to slow, do some research on Bob Munden.

I was once called slow, being the only shooter to have a DA revolver on the firing line, amid a plethora of autos. This was before we started shooting.
Not only did I finsh first, I was also one of two shooters to score perfect on the course of fire.

Bob Munden isn't a typical SA shooter anymore than Rob Leatham is a typical auto shooter. Carry what you want, just admit you are handicapping yourself a bit.

And I don't get whoever said if you don't reload you're not committed. I never like to do anything myself I can get someone else to do better. Anyway, a SA with handloads is still slower than an auto with factory loads.

 

[Barry the Bear]

"Carry what you want, just admit you are handicapping yourself a bit." Im not handicapping myself by choosing what I know best to defend myself, I can hold my own with some guy with a semi auto.

 

[PRM]

Carry what you want, just admit you are handicapping yourself a bit.

Why should someone admit they are handicapping themselves just because they don't agree with you???

 

[Paul7]

"Carry what you want, just admit you are handicapping yourself a bit." Im not handicapping myself by choosing what I know best to defend myself, I can hold my own with some guy with a semi auto.

Even though the auto guy doesn't have the extra step of cocking the hammer and can completely reload while you're reloading round two.......OK, whatever.

I also don't get why it is assumed an auto shooter is the 'spray and pray' type. I'd be happy to go head to head for accuracy with my Dan Wesson Valor against any SA shooter here.

 

[savit260]

A number of post ago Paul 7 mentioned " what if you are knowing walking into a gunfight"?

As civilians should any of us be Knowingly walking into a gun fight? The obvious answer to that is no . I would also think the armed professionals that do knowingly walk into gunfights would do so with more than just a high-capacity auto handgun

 

[Paul7]

A number of post ago Paul 7 mentioned " what if you are knowing walking into a gunfight"?

As civilians should any of us be Knowingly walking into a gun fight? The obvious answer to that is no . I would also think the armed professionals that do knowingly walk into gunfights would do so with more than just a high-capacity auto handgun

Let me rephrase that, what if it is 3AM and you hear your back door being broken down?

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

When the BG grabs it away from you and tries to shoot you with it, will he even know how it operates?

Nor will the local constabulary. I once had a good chuckle watching a Blackhawk being passed around some of the local finest while they all tried to figure out how to swing out the "stuck" cylinder so they could make it safe.

As for the SA carry thing. I love my Blackhak. It's a wonderful gun. It's taken more animals on the ranch than all my other guns combined. And that's what it does. For work or walking around, my bottom feeders get the call. The ability to put more lead on target faster and more repeatedly is a decisive advantage. Screw the garbage about the first shot being the same, ergo both tools are the same. Nonsense. The first person to put enough lead into the other to make them stop fighting is the winner. That number is only 1 in stupid arguments about 1 stop shots.

I would love to see someone make it through a serious defensive pistol course with a SA revolver. It'll probably happen right after someone completed my Hi-Point challenge...

 

[45_auto]

We, presumably the irrational, believe that the individual's skill with his chosen weapon supersedes the equipment itself.

That's why you're called the "irrational". For fighting purposes, steam power beats sail power, F-22s beat Fokker DR1s (Red Baron's triplane), Abrams beat Shermans, Garands beat '03 bolt actions, and double-actions and semi's beat single actions.

Not saying that the inferior equipment won't win every once in a while, but the smart money will bet on the side that's not handicapping them self with equipment limitations.

Should be easy enough to demonstrate without having to risk your life. If it's really your skill and not your equipment, go out to any IDPA or USPSA match, standard POST qualifying course, Glock match, etc, and see how well you do with your single action. If your skill is as high as you claim (handloader, 10 shots in 17 seconds, etc) then you should have no excuse for finishing at the bottom of the pack.

 

[45 Dragoon]

CraigC,
I agree with you 100 % !!!!!!!!!!! Sounds like you're into it with a bunch of cry babies that just don't understand it's your choice instead of theirs (are you paying attention English Professor ? (I think D E must be a Gov. employed Eng. teacher. His way or the highway!))

Anyway, just found this thread . . . . . . YER DOIN GOOD !!


45 Dragoon (yes, I carry one sometimes.)

 

[HexHead]

Should be easy enough to demonstrate without having to risk your life. If it's really your skill and not your equipment, go out to any IDPA or USPSA match, standard POST qualifying course, Glock match, etc, and see how well you do with your single action. If your skill is as high as you claim (handloader, 10 shots in 17 seconds, etc) then you should have no excuse for finishing at the bottom of the pack.

This should have been post #2 instead of #89 and saved us a lot of time. But they won't let him use one at a GSSF match. The IDPA match would be a real eye-opener for him. Or us.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Some of us just don't like ammo dependent guns !!! OK ?
Since when did it become so important to try and force your views on others? This country was founded on the idea that you have the Freedom to be the best YOU you can be. If I choose a different weapon than you, it should be fine. I could give a rats butt about what kind of house you live in, car you drive, food you eat, t.v. you have, shoes you have, instrument you play, weed eater you use, smart phone you have, coffee you drink, . . . . . I didn't ask you what kind of weapon to buy either! It's MY choice !!!

It looks like our Gubmn't backed school system has done it's job! No individualism, gotta get what the Gubmn't uses !!


45 Dragoon

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Some of us just don't like ammo dependent guns !!! OK ?

There are firearms that don't require ammo to work?

 

[Barry the Bear]

Water guns dont use ammo.

 

[David E]

At five yards I don't even use the sights. Now let me go spend $150 on a timer just to satisfy YOUR curiosity.

I don't care if you use the sights or not, I only care about hits.

You can download a free shot timer app for your phone.

And it's not to satisfy MY curiosity: I know what the results will be. But that's not the point. I said:

Quote:
If you're using one hand (easily possible/probable) your SA follow-up shots are going to be slower than someone using a semi-auto.

And you replied in Post #55:

I wouldn't bet on that.

Well, let's just see. No bet, just for educational purposes.

I guess it's irrelevant to you guys that when you only have five shots, you probably shouldn't be firing as fast as you can.

You don't get to choose your encounter and neither do I. It may be necessary to fire quickly and accurately, one handed. Deciding to go with 5 rounds isn't a choice we all make.

And why is it these threads always portray the revolver shooter as cool, calm, fast and accurate while the semi-auto shooter is a spray and pray doofus?

 

[couldbeanyone]

Paul7 posted "Distinctions without a difference. The fact is, we may need to face the same people the police do, and armed civilians do stop more crimes than the police do every year."
Try walking through a room with an angry housecat in it. Now try to grab the same cat and stuff it in a cage. Well it is the same cat isn't it. Should take the same effort right?
I would think anyone would be able to see that there is huge difference in the amount of force likely to be needed when trying to arrest a felon vs. trying to create enough space to remove yourself from a bad situation.
While I don't recommend a single action for carry. I do of course realize that IDPA is a shooting game, and while it helps develop shooting skills, the equipment required to win a match has little to do with what might be required to survive in a self defense encounter.
Now, carry on with the wailing and chest thumping.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Goodness. Just wanted to get a word in edgewise.

I have been shooting revolvers for almost 40 years. Both Single Actions and Double Actions. I have quite a few to choose from. Yes, I shoot CAS, but with full power Black Powder 45 Colt loads, so I am not shooting what we refer to as mouse farts. I am very familiar with my Single Action revolvers, I am very comfortable shooting them. Yes, I have several Semi-Autos, including three 1911s. My favorite Semi-Auto is my 9mm Browning Hi Power.

But if I heard somebody breaking into my door in the middle of the night, I would probably grab an N frame 357 Magnum (double action). I am very familiar with them too.

 

[shafter]

"Carry what you want, just admit you are handicapping yourself a bit."

Maybe, maybe not. If the fight is over in just a few shots the guy with the extremely ergonomic hog leg has a better chance than many care to admit.

 

[David E]

Yes, I shoot CAS, but with full power Black Powder 45 Colt loads, so I am not shooting what we refer to as mouse farts.

Full power BP loads? Sounds cool! What is your load, exactly?

.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Yes, a double action revolver will cycle it's action each time you pull the trigger. A single action will cycle it's action each time you cock the hammer and pull the trigger. These arms will do this with or without ammo. (You should check them out some time, they've been around a looooooong time.) If you rack the slide back with an unloaded semi-auto and pull the trigger, you're done (meaning you will have to rack the slide again or cock the hammer to do the function again). If the weapon is loaded, cocked with an empty chamber and you pull the trigger, it wont go bang and you're done. If the weapon is loaded and the first round fires and the second round does not, your done (without racking the slide again) therefore, ammo dependent.

My wife teaches kindergarten, I know how she feels.

45 Dragoon

By the way Barry, water IS the ammo !!!! (that's why it's called a water gun, see?)