Smith & Wesson 38 special question?

[beentothev]

Anyone give me a ballpark idea on what the serial # might be on the abovementioned weapon, manufactured in circa 1965???????? I know that many serial numbers are sequential to their order of manufacture on some weapons. Has 6 shot capacity and a 4" barrel, blued finish, with partially checkered wood grip?? Were the any letters that would have been stamped on the weapon seperate from the SN?? I need to get an "approximate" serial # area if possible. Thanks

 

[perpster]

A model number is needed. Open the cylinder. Look at the "hinge" area. You will see some numbers stamped there. Post those numbers here, including any numbers after a dash.

 

[rcmodel]

Whether it's a K (medium) or S (Large) frame, the model number is not important, although it should be stamped inside the frame as noted above if the gun was made after 1957.

All K-frame model 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 48, 53, 66, 67, & 68 used the same serial number block in that time period.

All N-frame model 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 57, and 58 used the same serial number block then.

1965 K-frame production would range from K605878 - K658986.
1965 N-frame production would range from S236000 - S257999.

There may be many other assembly numbers, partial serial numbers, and inspectors marks stamped inside the frame, crane, on the cylinder face, and possibly other parts.

Now, may I ask why you ask?
I found it to be a rather puzzling question.


rcmodel

 

[beentothev]

Thanks for the info

I might have made things simpler had I stated up front this weapon was stolen from me 40 years ago. I was wounded in Vietnam, and all of my personal property was stolen from my lockers. This included my S&W. I just recently found out who stole and still has it. I talked with him and offered to buy him any handgun of his choice as a replacement but he refused, commenting that "he had grown quite fond on it".
So when you hear all of the tales of terror concerning the Vietnam issue, remember that part of the nasty story is related to some of the low lifes that you had to serve with. Only a small percentage, but they were there with their noses stuck in the mud anytime a round was fired. Thanks again for the help, and remember YOU asked for this explanation. It is not something I care to share with people.
Lest any of you say something ignorant/macho re:go and get it and rip his ears off, let me say that I have a wonderful wife and children, and have no intention of spending my remaining days in prison. God Bless you all!

 

[rcmodel]

As a victim of a "wall-locker bandit with a fire ax" while deployed with the 5th. Army pistol team one time long ago, I feel for you!

As for me, I didn't lose anything personal like you did, but they wanted me to pay for about 2 - 3 grand worth of cold weather field gear before they would discharge me. Finally got them to drop the whole thing, but it took some string-pulling.

Anyway, just glad I could help you out.


rcmodel

 

[perpster]

If you can prove the gun was yours to begin with (or get him to admit it was yours--in many states you can secretly record a conversation if you are a party to the conversation without notifying anyone else) why don't you tell him that you will go to the authorities about him being in possession of your stolen property? Maybe he has a wife and kids and would also rather not spend time in jail. Maybe the local authorities, maybe the Feds, or maybe CID or all of the above. It's pissing me off that decades later he's got your property and is telling you to get lost.

 

[Ron James]

Unfortunaly this happens in all services and all wars. In world
War II the rear echelon people would go through duffle bags, In Vietnam Hole baggage ( in days gone by this baggage was shipped in ships) shipped through Japan would be opened for inspection and riffled by Air Force personal. I lost a large catch of war photos including some of friends who didn't make back. I have more stories of this practice but saving it for a later time.

 

[Old Fuff]

beentothev:

If you could learn the serial number from reviewing registration receipts or whatever, Smith & Wesson can research their records, and determine when it was shipped and to what distributor or dealer. I don't know if this would help or not, but I wish you luck.

Your description would seem to limit the possible models to a model 10 (Military & Police), or model 15 (K-38 Combat Masterpiece. The former had fixed sights, the latter had adjustable ones.

 

[beentothev]

Smith & Wesson can or will NOT do anything

to help in this matter. I have phoned and emailed them and gotten weak excuses concerning "too long ago" and "we don't have/keep such records. All paper work regarding the purchase of the weapon was lost or disgarded many years ago, including the model and serial #.
In our state it is illegal to record phone conversations without notifying the other person you are doing so. Probably wouldn't help anyway as I haven't found any law agency yet that gives me much chance of getting it back without a serial #? So it sounds like I will have to hire an "arm breaker" from his area or forget it.
I guess I could get mad too if I wanted to but I keep focusing on being thankful/glad/happy that I am NOT a person like him. He is indeed a sad ass individual!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My guess is, knowing him like I do is, he probably went home after Vietnam and told all of his family and cronies that he took it off of Ho Chi Min during intense hand to hand combat. Take care and thanks again guys.

 

[beentothev]

Just as a passing thought

are there any sites/places on line where I might be able to find pics of this type/age (circa 1965) weapon???????????????????? If I saw a pic, I could immediately tell which model it was?
One thing I do have going for me is that I did not buy the weapon. My brother bought it as a replacement for one I had that was damaged during a firefight. He then mailed it to me. So he can attest to buying it, BUT again, has no proof of purchase, and the dealer has been out of business for 20 years.
By the way, I realize that I forgot to put an h on Ho's last name but I doubt he cares, and I really don't give a damn either. Thanks for your help.

 

[Old Fuff]

My scanner isn't set up, but I'm sure others can supply a picture. If they can't or don't I will set up the scanner.

Smith & Wesson do have the records, back into the 1800's. For a $30.00 research fee their in-house historian, Roy Jinks, will go back and find your gun. But he can't do so unless you provide the exact serial number and model.

Smith & Wesson serial numbers are often a problem, because in those days they would make and serial number frames, then build them into guns later. "Later" could be a matter of weeks, months or even years. The records that are available show when a gun was shipped froom the factory, not necessarily when it was made. The listings you see of various serial numbers vs. years are based on when the guns within a certain serial number range were made during a certain time period. The time period may be decades. For example one serial number range covers the years between 1915 and 1942.

 

[perpster]

FWIW, you could sue him in civil court for replevin -- the return of property wrongfully held, or conversion -- the wrongful exercising of dominion and control over somene else's property. These aren't text book definitions, but you get the idea. Civil court requires 51% proof to win, unlike criminal court requiring 99.9%. It worked against OJ.

 

[beentothev]

Smith & Wesson can do NOTHING according to the helpful

gal that I talked with on the phone, because they don't keep sales records back that far???????????????????????? As for the historian helping, I don't know how if they don't keep records back that far, and me without a SN??
As for the court advice, two major drawbacks: #1. As big a dirt bag as he is, if he knew I was taking any civil action, he would simply lie, and/or hide the weapon somewhere, and #2 He is 1,500 miles away from me and the cost of such an action would be prohibitive.
I am slowly and methodically working from different angles, but if we were talking Vegas odds here, it appears that I am about a 50 to 1 underdog right now based on the information I have been able to garner so far.
Let me know if anyone has run across a pic site where I might be able to view different 38 special models of that era.
Once again thanks for you concern and your info. God Bless

 

[Old Fuff]

gal that I talked with on the phone, because they don't keep sales records back that far???????????????????????? As for the historian helping, I don't know how if they don't keep records back that far, and me without a SN??

They have records going back to the 1850's, but to trace a particular revolver they do have to know the model and serial number. Here the problem is that they often used the same serial number on different models.

Remember, S&W wouldn't have any record concerning the person who bought the revolver, only the name of the distributor or dealer it was sent to, and the date of shipment.

Details on an historical letter will be found on the S&W website (www.smith-wesson.com). Right now that won't do you any good, but if you should come up with a number it might. A distributor just might ("might" you understand) have a record as to which dealer it was sent to. You and your brother would know who that dealer was - the person with the gun probably doesn't.

If pictures don't come along I'll see what I can do.

 

[beentothev]

The distributer/dealer quandry was what

the S & W lady I talked to brought up as an excuse. They only send the weapons to distributers who send them to dealer yada yada. I asked her if she could give me a distributor for our particular area of the country and she said "NO". So with the dealer having been out of business now for 20 years, me without a SN, and no idea who the distributor is just pretty much puts the situation in the dreaded "catch 22" class. Bottom line is S & W is of no help unless I can come up with a SN. Again thanks

 

[Old Fuff]

Frankly, what the young lady was telling you was that she didn't have that information in the customer service department, which is true. However that doesn't mean the information isn't available if you have the serial number. You don't, but there is always a chance that somewhere, somehow you might learn the number. If that happened it would open up some options.

Also, when the dealer went out of business his records should have been sent to the BATF&E, who enter them into a database. Usually they only cover 1968 and the years following - but one never knows.

 

[rcmodel]

S&W Model 15 Combat Masterpiece:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=80880525

S&W Model 10 Military & Police:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=80566901

Hope this helps.


rcmodel

 

[beentothev]

OK it seems we are getting away from the original question.

As far as my "hypothetically" obtaining the serial number, that is pretty much NOT going to happen. If I had the serial number I would not have been on here seeking help, but rather taking my serial number and info to the police to have them get the weapon back. But I don't have, nor will I ever probably be able to get the serial number, so I must trudge ahead with my own efforts based upon the information I can gather.
As for what the lady at S&W told me, it was as stated, which although veiled with verbage translated to "what you are asking is way to much work for me to want to undertake". The email response could be read the same way, to mean the same thing. So bottom line is still, in my situation, as it actually exists, not as how I would like it to exist, S&W are of absolutely no help.
Thanks for the pics. Your efforts are appreciated.

 

[rcmodel]

I'm not sure what it is you expect S&W to do?

If you have the serial# and $30.00, the S&W historian will give you all the information they have, in the form of a very nice, embossed factory letter. That will include finish, barrel length, any options, and when and who it was shipped to. In 1965, that would be one of many distributors.

If you don't have the serial#, there is nothing at all they can do, other then tell you they can't help you, which is what they did.

Simple as that!


rcmodel

 

[beentothev]

Maybe I r dum?

The only thing that I thought S&W could possibly do was to tell me the name/location of the distributor for a specific local area/region, and then had that been possible I would have attempted to contact them to see if they could have been of any assistance. I understand that without a serial number I am like a straw in the wind in all of this. I can also understand that some people when performing there "jobs" are like water and always seeking the path of least resistance.
So to clarify, once and for all, I now expect S&W to do absolutely nothing!

 

[Old Fuff]

I understand what you're saying, and believe me when I say I hope this works out for you. But yet another problem is that S&W distributors are for the most part independent business that sell product all over the country. In turn licensed retailers can order from any distributors they want to, and often do. If the former owner of the gun shop is alive and available he might remember which distributors he delt with.

I realize that you want this particular revolver, and for many understandable and personal reasons no other can fully replace it. But would you consider purchasing an identical gun from the same period to have and use until you do recover the stolen one?

 

[beentothev]

The whole point of this exercise is

simply to be able to leave behind, for my children, mainly my only son, 1 (one) tangible relic from my Vietnam experience! Other than a couple of rolls of undeveloped film, I received nothing in the way of my personal property/gear after being wounded. So I have a few photos and some decorations awared by the army, and absolutely nothing else.
I am making this effort for the above reason and no other. I no longer shoot (other than when training my wife and children), nor do I hunt, nor do I want a pistol to use it for the primary purpose they were designed for. So I really have no desire to obtain a weapon for any reason.
Thanks again for all of the help guys and good luck in your lives.

 

[perpster]

Beentothevalley, I'm thinking that if the gun was purchased post-1968 GCA there is some chance BATFE could have something on record searchable by buyer's name. Is the buyer's name known? I looked in your posts but don't see that info. Pre-GCA I would guess would rely solely on commercial sources, which is not working out so well for you.

What about insurance? Did the buyer list the gun with an insurance company?

Did the state/city in question require registration?

Did the military ever list your gun on any records? You may not recall it, but maybe they have such a requirement and you might find your s/n there.

You said in a post that "I just recently found out who stole and still has it". How did you find out? That source of info could lead to more info and/or leverage over the jerk who has the gun. Do you and the jerk have an friends in common who could help out?

If the jerk is so fond of the gun, maybe he takes it to a range, where a private investigator (for example) could manage to get the serial #. For that matter, does the jerk live in a jurisdiction that requires handgun registration? If yes, the s/n might be a public record, or he may be committing a crime by possessing it that the local gendarmes might want to get involved enforcing.

Lastly, although you live in a state that prohibits one side recording a conversation, you can go to a state that doesn't and make your call from there.

 

[beentothev]

Thanks perp but according to

my original post, the gun was stolen in 1967, and purchased in late 1966, by my brother. And yes I still remember his name LOL. As for jurisdiction requirements concerning firearms registration where he lives, I doubt it would do mucy good. I talked with a local cop on the phone there and it was pretty much of a "we only put down are donuts if ordered by a higher authority" response. Please no backlash re: anti-cops. Half of my family could arrest me if they wanted to.
But the fact of the matter is another of the things on my side when and if I go after him full bore is that he is a federal employee and told me that he often carries the piece to work with him. Not being in the law end of the government, I am pretty sure that is illegal.
Thanks again for your ideas/info. I do appreciate it.

 

[wcwhitey]

Try writing the the BATF, but be sure to tell them your story, leave out who currently owns it. Give your brothers name, point of sale and approximate time and date. Be sure to tell them that you wish to regain the memento for the reasons stated. No guarantee anything will happen but hopefully someone in the office may take up your cause and do a little research. Hopefully their may be a veteran or two in the office that would be glad to help. Worth a shot. Bill