Smith & Wesson 38 special question?

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I fear you are S.O.L. By your own account, you have no proof of purchase or ownership of that gun. And if you did, it would name your brother, not you, so he would have to do the leg work.

Even if you rat the thief out to his boss and he is fired or even prosecuted for wearing a gun into a Federal building, you cannot prove the gun is yours. It will spend eternity in an evidence locker, be melted down for manhole covers, be traded to a dealer for new police gear, or go home with a cop who thinks it interesting, depending on local policy. They will not hand it over to you on your claim that it was yours in 'Nam.

It is not that S&W won't help, it is that they can't help. They do not allocate guns in serial number blocks. They might send No 123456 and No 123457 to opposite sides of the country if that was the way the orders came in. Dealers get guns from distributors based on availability and price. There is not a Northwestern Minnesota S&W distributor who handles all the guns sold in that area.

Prior to GCA 1968, there is no Federal paper on that gun. Any local registration from when your brother got it is probably in a box in the basement of the courthouse, if not just discarded when they remodeled. There was not the computerization of everything 40 years ago.

I do not presume to tell you how to spend your time and energy, but pursuing that gun does not look like a good way.
 
If all else fails, the least you could do is send a letter or two addressed to his wife and/or kids detailing what happened and why you'd like the weapon back. Don't be rude, just state the facts. Even if you don't get the pistol back as a memento of your war experience for your son, at least this guy's family will have a "memento" of their own re: their father's war experience (a letter from a fellow soldier that says their father was a lying, thieving scumbag).
 
Fburgtx, I think it would be mean and petty to visit the sins of the father upon the children. They did not do anything to beentothev, why attack them?

I get the impression that the thief is laughing up his sleeve at beentothev trying to get his gun back, knowing that it is highly unlikely. Sometimes the worst thing you can do to people like that is to ignore them.
 
Please, just factual information re: serial # and/or pic sites.

Hold the opinions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Speaking of saving time and energy, maybe if the previous posts were read, it may have been noted that I stated something to the effect that if we "were talking Vegas odds here that I realize I am about a 50-1 underdog here", and later I stated something to the effect that " I realize I am like a straw in the wind". ???????????????????
As for revenge, I have NO desire to "rat" him out, (because simply stated he is a much lower life form than any rat), nor get him fired, nor steal his wife's panties off the clothesline, nor beat up his kids and take their milk money, and no, not even put up nude pictures of his mother in the local area men's rooms. To contemplate things like that would make me as sad and ignorant excuse of a man as he is! I have more positive plans for my time and energy. Which by the way, just for the record, other than my wife, I will be the only judge as to how best to utilize my time and energy!
So please, any information is appreciated, opinions please save for the rest of the world to enjoy and profit from, as I have no interest in them. Thanks again to all of you guys who have tried to provide positive info. God bless you and yours.
 
So endeth this lesson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have alway preached 2 things to our children:#1- treat everyone that you interact with with empathy, and #2-Give every endeavor you undertake your best effort possible. I have tempered that with the fact that they won't always win, but will in fact seldom lose, and they will ALWAYS feel good about themselves when finished. Is it true??????????
Last night around 8:45 PM I received a phone call from the son of the former owner of the long defunct sporting goods shop where my brother bought the
.38 special in question here. After explaining the situation to him, he informed me that he did indeed keep and have ALL of his father's old firearms sales records dating back to the day the store opened. After a little searching on his part he provided me the the serial number for my stolen revolver!!!!!!!!! Next stop BTAFA! My scumbag ex-comrade made a very poor choice, and now he will learn how poor it really was. Knowing me, he should have chosen more wisely. Now he will be forced to act like a man and be accountable for his actions and his choice.
Thanks to all of you who attempted to help although just FYI the serial # info provided was no where close to being accurate.
Sorry if I sounded like a preacher or a teacher here. So endeth this lesson!
God bless you and yours.
 
That is good news, you are now well on the way.
You will probably need a statement from your brother that he gave the gun to you as you start proceedings with the BATFE.
 
just FYI the serial # info provided was no where close to being accurate.
Click to expand...
Well, the serial number info I provided you was accurate for a 1965 production gun you ask for help with.

Perhaps the gun wasn't made the year your brother bought it!

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rcmodel
 
I am delighted with the apparent outcome of this situation, but have a concern.

Smith & Wesson's made during the middle 60's era had two numbers stamped on them. One was an assembly number, stamped on the frame and yoke. The "yoke" is the hinge part the cylinder swings out on, and matching numbers were stamped on the inside face of the yoke, and the opposite face on the frame, under/beside the back end of the barrel. This number was not the serial number, and not related too it.

The serial number was usually stamped on the butt, and had a letter prefix. When the serial number was recorded this letter was sometimes overlooked.

It is possible that the number you have is the assembly, not the serial number, or that you have an incomplete serial number.

If you would, please post the number you have. Use xx for the last two numbers I suspect the total numbers might be 4 if it's an assembly number.

There is, or was a lot of confusion because Colt stamped their serial number where S&W stamped an assembly number. Even some dealers got mixed up.
 
Very good point Old Fuff!

I alluded to assembly numbers in post #3, but hadn't considered that again when this came up.

I just assumed it was going to be a K or S prefix serial number he got from the dealers son.

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rcmodel
 
I have alway preached 2 things to our children:#1- treat everyone that you interact with with empathy, and #2-Give every endeavor you undertake your best effort possible. I have tempered that with the fact that they won't always win, but will in fact seldom lose, and they will ALWAYS feel good about themselves when finished. Is it true??????????
Click to expand...

Sounds like good advice, that more children should learn. I think that you have just been rewarded for your stance on this issue. Good luck on this matter and all else that is to come.
 
I'm back!

I only assumed that the weapon was made somewhere around the time it was purchased. Could have been an error on my part. According to the original sales receipt the SN is a 7 number series starting with the #8 and preceeded by the letter C.
Not having the weapon, I have no idea where it is stamped, but I assume that the original seller did. Maybe they sold my brother a 1950's weapon that had a great shelf life LOL.
Thanks again guys. If you could see and meet our 3 kids, you would see that they are living proof that they listened and learned their degenerate dad's advice well. Another thing I preached at them was that somebody much wiser than me once said "My strength is the strength of ten because I am pure of heart". I told them that is how they could feel in times of strife if they lived by the first two things we drilled into them. All 3 seemingly have worked well for them.
Take care and enjoy sucking air today. There is no such thing as a bad day as long as you can do that.
 
If you've tracked down the revolver and it's current thief/owner, the next step should be a lawsuit to reclaim your property and secure damages for conversion and whatnot. There will be statute of limitations problems, but the SOL isn't cut and dried in civil cases. Provided you only found out who had it recently, that may suffice to keep the limitations period at bay. But don't wait too long now.
 
O.K.
A C prefix in .38 Spl. would be a model 10 steel M&P, 12 M&P alloy Airweight, or Aircrewman.
1963 - 1965 would be C622700 tru C810532.
1966 - 1967 = C810533 - C999999.

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rcmodel
 
beentothev:

Ah yes!

Now we are getting somewhere. At the time in question the serial number was stamped on the butt. It would have to be a "C" prefix within a six numbered series or less (as in C 888,888) because the serial number machine wouldn'd go over 999,999.

Ask the son of the gun dealer if the records concerning the sale of the gun to your brother are dated. You will need photocopies of the dealers records to document your case, but now that you have a complete serial number things should go better. Also at this point, S&W can document the piece.

Do you still need a photograph?
 
So then according to the SN's

your provided in the most recent post, it was a 66/67 manufacture date. As for the pic if you have one of the exact weapon it would be appreciated and possibly useful. Thanks in advance.
Again thanks for all the help with this. After all of these years I can barely remember the exact look of it. Funny though, maybe unbelievable too, maybe even delirium LOL, but I can still remember the feel of it in my hand? I guess as age moves on all of us, I am pretty lucky to remember which end the bullets came out.
Thanks to all who contributed your time and expertise. I will tell my son to remember all of you guys.
 
One area of puzzlement that I noticed

after my last post was WHY does my weapon have 7 (seven) numbers following the letter C??????????????????????????????????? Based on the info provided pertaining to the s&w numbering system here there would appear to be something awry?????????
 
Perhaps if you post the number, using XX for the last two numbers we can deduce something. If you don't want to post even a partial number on an open forum consider sending it to someone such as rcmodel or myself using the forum's confidential personal message (PM) system. How much we can help is limited to what we know.

One obvious possibility is that the dealer mis-entered the number on the receipt.
 
I have re-contacted the

sporting goods store owners son and he gratiously has consented to recheck his records and will mail me whatever paperwork he has on file. Says he may have some form of Federal filing slip that became required as of 1964? As for the pic, that is the one I already printed and took to the BATFA agent yesterday. I was pretty sure, but alas, not positive. Like I mentioned, if I could have held it in my hand I would have known for sure.
Thanks again guys, and I WILL update you as to any additional info provided me by the SGS owner's son. Take care.
 
The SGS son phoned me last night

to inform me that the last digit of the SN he had given me off of the original sales receipt was in fact NOT a 6 (six) but rather just some type of pen residue that slightly resembled a 6. Therefore I now have a SN that begins with the letter C and has a 6 (six) number series of 8XXXX7. You guys are so smart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks
BUT before you dislocate anything patting yourselves on the back I will tell you something to enhance your education that I had NO knowledge of prior to talking with him last night. Among the paperwork copies he is sending me is a copy of a Federally REQUIRED "Dangerous Weapons" card that was filed on 3/1/67 with our local County Sheriff's office. According to him, as of 1/1/64, ALL dealers were required to file one of these cards/forms with their county sheriff's office for each & every handgun they sold!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This supposedly was the result of some rapidly inacted legislature ran through right after the JFK assasination??
The irony here being, I believe earlier in these posts I mentioned something about people who resembled water when it comes to performing their jobs, the FIRST place I contacted concerning this matter was (you guessed it I hope) the county sheriff's office. Only to be told by the Chief Deputy that ABSOLUTELY NO records of a handgun sale would have been filed or kept by their department prior to 1968! So is it ignorance (as in being uninformed and just NOT knowing), or just another guy taking the path of water???????? I am NOT smart enough to know, but I am smart enough to inform the sheriff as to the quality of their service rendered.
Thanks again guys for the advice and help and hopefully the BATAF agent I talked with is a professional and NOT another water guy??
Take care, and now you can pat yourselves on the back. God bless you and yours.
 
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Glad it is all clearing up.

But that "Dangerous Weapons Card" was not a FEDERAL requirement in 1967. May well have been a state or local Kennedy assassination legacy, but the Federal paperwork did not come in until GCA 1968. I know my state had local handgun registration long before then and kept it in place with two sets of paperwork being required for several years until Brady went in with a waiting period longer than the state's.

The deputy you talked to may not have been born in 1967 and was surely not on the job then. Expecting a minor county employee to know old laws is not reasonable. Many of them don't know current law, if you have been following the case of the guy harassed for wearing a gun in the Knoxville Walmart parking lot.
 
Therefore then it would obviously stand to

REASON that if an American goes to court for any issue that was enacted into law before the judge's date of birth we should and can NOT expect the judge or police officials involved to have any knowledge of the laws pertaining to our plight??????????????
Also, simply because I R DUM, I will give the SGS owner's son the benefit of the doubt because of his years of experience doing his job, coupled with the fact that he is sending me a tangible copy of a receipt, dated and recorded by our local sheriff's office weapons records department.
As for my expectations of people, I expect them to put forth their best efforts when performing their job. As is way too obvious we have a diminishing number of experts in this country that are being replaced by
a growing number of self-proclaimed x-spurts!
So going back to how DUM I am, for now I will put my faith in the SGS owner's son and the tangible evidence he provides until he/it is proven erroneous.
 
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You are entirely correct. It is not reasonable to expect "public servants" to know their job. It isn't RIGHT, but it is reasonable to expect from many examples.

I am glad that the storekeeper's son is being helpful. With sales record and county form in hand you will be in a strong position to attempt to recover your gun.

I will close by repeating that since the gun is in your brother's name, you may well have to involve him in the recovery effort. It might be enough to have a notarized statement that he bought it as a gift to you; he might have to appear in person. Is he alive, on good terms, and available?

So as to avoid being included in the ranks of X-purts, I will not trouble you again on this subject.

I'm done.
 
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