P5 Guy
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The ejector rod needs to be long enough to fully clear 357MAG empty brass.
What does that mean? A three inch or longer barrel, right?
What does that mean? A three inch or longer barrel, right?
Snub-Nosed .357s, What's The Best Barrel Length?
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GeoDudeFlorida
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When I was working as a consultant I went through the same. But I traveled by air, not car, so bringing a gun was never an option. This was pre-9-11 so carry-on baggage was almost never x-ray'd back then (early-mid-90's) and carrying a "pocket knife" was at least marginally legal about everywhere - as long as it wasn't a switchblade. I used to carry a fixed-blade 4" Columbia River (CRKT) SoB under my suit jacket. Never had to use it, thank goodness. Even walking around SE Philly, most people were polite to me and the few who did give me "dark looks" got a smile and wave in response. I've been very blessed and very lucky and I know it. I just think it's kind of important for people to remember, if you HAVE to use a magnum revolver in public as a civilian, you are going to have to explain your reasoning to a prosecutor and police who are potentially VERY hostile to armed civilians. Having a good reason might save you some jail time...
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Bingo! Few years ago I tested loads out of a 3" model 60 and a 4" HWP to settle an argument. Namely, it was one about powder burn rate and the nonsensical idea that faster powders yield higher velocity in shorter barrels.
S&W model 28 4"
125gr XTP over 22.0gr H110/WSP - 1536fps
125fgr XTP over 9.6gr Unique/WSP - 1270fps
An advantage of 266fps in favor of H110.
S&W model 60 3"
125gr XTP over 22.0gr H110/WSP - 1480fps
125fgr XTP over 9.6gr Unique/WSP - 1300fps
An advantage of 180fps in favor of H110.
How that is relevant to this discussion, H110 was born in the .30Carbine. So we're talking WWII era. Long before the 1970's. We know Unique came along long before that.
I always thought reading was one of the smartest things I ever did. Beats the hell out of how people do it now, Google.
It would be more precise to say that gun writers do not write negative articles. They do receive guns that aren't so hot. The manufacturer either provides a replacement or the article doesn't get written. Nobody wants to read them and it wouldn't be relevant anyway. I don't know what some folks seem to expect from articles. It 'seems' people want to be able to surrender their own judgment and rely on a magazine review to do that for them. I never did that. Didn't take me long to figure out that writers were humans, just like the rest of us. They have misconceptions, preferences and prejudices. There are some writers I just plain don't like and others I think are full of it. There are some I couldn't stand, until I sat down for a meal with them. Others that are just as friendly and genuine as you would've hoped. Some that are completely phony. Those are the extreme minority. Most of them work hard at what they do because reputation is everything. Anybody can post anything on the internet and do so anonymously. A writer's name is on everything they produce. They have full accountability. Ask Zumbo and Metcalf about that.
I don't know who wrote what for you to take it that way.
GeoDudeFlorida
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What's interesting to me is, the H110 load lost ~60fps by losing an inch of barrel but the Unique load GAINED ~30fps by losing that same inch of barrel. I'd be curious how each load compared to their .38Spl equivalents.
e.g. per Alliant, 6gr. of Unique w/ 125gr. XTP for a max .38 +P load in 4" and 3" barrels.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
If we're only counting ejector rod length and not ejector effectiveness, my 6" barreled Ruger GP100 doesn't fully clear .357 mag brass. The ejector rod looks long enough, but doesn't go as deeply into the cylinder as some other guns with shorter ejector rods that have deceptively longer strokes.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
I'm not sure why the hangup on a magnum revolver as opposed to firing any cartridge from any firearm in self defense?
My carry options are .32 ACP, .380 ACP, .38 Special, .357 magnum, 9mm, and .45 ACP. What's the difference in a self defense shooting other than cartridge effectiveness?
bassjam
Member
I've settled on 3" for myself, which really pushes being called a snubby IMO. I used to have a SP101 with the 2.25" barrel, but I never warmed up to the gun. Decided to replace it with a Kimber K6s, and was originally going for the 2" barrel but something kept gnawing at me that I wasn't gaining much more over my 442 except more flash and bang with .357 loads. I knew 4" was too long for conceal carry in trying my S&W 66 around the house. So I opted for the Kimber with a 3" barrel and I'm glad I did. It's no more noticable AIWB than the 2" guns, but I like the extra inch at the range and it seems to reduce muzzle rise with .357 loads. The weight isn't that much more than the SP101 I had, and the barrel is only .75" longer, but I shoot the Kimber considerably better.
GeoDudeFlorida
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I had to contend with an unfriendly prosecutor and police department after a justified self-defense shooting. The prosecutor pursued the case even though the intruder was in my apartment and had pulled the front door off the hinges to get in - he was high one something, I was never told what the tox screen revealed. The two main reasons made no sense to me: I didn't empty my gun (therefore was not in mortal fear for my life) and I used a 9mm pistol loaded with "sub-machine gun ammunition" - according to the investigating detective, all surplus FMJ is "sub-machine gun ammunition." All six shots were through-and-through and one ended up in a garage across the street. Thus the detective and prosecutor being so aggressive.
This was in Florida in the mid-80's in a part of the state which was very rural and not at all hostile to gun ownership. According to my attorney, the fact that all of my rounds exited with "lethal velocity" in the minds of the police and prosecutor constituted "reckless public endangerment." Lucky for me, it was just that prosecutor and the investigating detective - not the state's attorney and not the local Chief of Police - so both the detective and prosecutor were replaced and the grand jury returned a no-true bill. My record was expunged and I even got my gun back but the legal fees were still a financial hardship at that time. If you don't think any prosecutor, anywhere, will try to get publicity and a conviction for what ought to be a legal shoot because a miss or through-and-through then okay, carry on, ignore the advice. Sorry for interrupting.
Offhand McFlan
Member
I just got a .357 Windicator with a 3-5/8" barrel. The seller called it 3.5". EAA calls it 4"! Personally I feel this length is perfect for me, for EDC anyway. I can just barely fit it in the pocket of my big wool P-style coat. It also doesn't peek or print much in an OWB holster (of course it ain't summer yet, so we'll see about that later). And if I have to I can put it in my waistband. Personally, I wouldn't want anything shorter. I like it that way. I've never really owned a snubby and the Windicator is the shortest revolver I've ever owned. My "snubbies" are my 9mm Shield and my Radom P83! I've owned one six-inch 357, two four inchers, and now this "undecided" Windicator.
Ok, so that's my experience. But based on a lot of reading I think probably 3 inches is probably short enough and shouldn't really go shorter unless you value deep concealment over shootability and effectiveness. 3" is like the vertex of 357's power where it really starts to decrease phenomenally if you go any smaller...and also increases impressively with every inch beyond it. 4" was the standard for most LEO duty 357's back in the day. I think that makes a lot of sense for LEO's. For civilians, 3". For secret agents, masochists and people who like to waste powder, 2" or less!
Seriously, though...if you really need concealment I'd go with 2-1/2" but no less.
Ok, so that's my experience. But based on a lot of reading I think probably 3 inches is probably short enough and shouldn't really go shorter unless you value deep concealment over shootability and effectiveness. 3" is like the vertex of 357's power where it really starts to decrease phenomenally if you go any smaller...and also increases impressively with every inch beyond it. 4" was the standard for most LEO duty 357's back in the day. I think that makes a lot of sense for LEO's. For civilians, 3". For secret agents, masochists and people who like to waste powder, 2" or less!
Seriously, though...if you really need concealment I'd go with 2-1/2" but no less.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Not much beats personal experience, and it appears that you have plenty of it. Glad to know you came out of it legally clear.
Seems like people using rifles and pistol caliber carbines for self defense in that situation would have had it worse. Which means just about most people here at THR, including myself. I can imagine it now, "the defendant used a semi-auto sub-machine gun" . . . "the defendant used a semi-auto assault rifle".
Certainly a valid topic to discuss, but it would likely take this thread further off course to the point of moderator intervention.
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OP
OP
Confederate
Member
It's always nice to see a great photo! Also, those grips would make any gun look expensive, especially a stainless Colt!
bangswitch
Member
Not necessarily. The area about 1/4 to 3/8" forward of the case head/rim is what swells after firing, and the proper method is to hold the revolver muzzle up when ejecting your spent cases. Once the swelled area clears the rear of the cylinder, it usually falls out with gravity helping. My brass falls clear from my 2-1/2" M66-1, but the short rod will push the cases less than half their length out of the chamber if you hold it muzzle down. Of course, if you slap the extractor rod hard, like Paul Harrell suggests, you can probably launch the brass like a semiauto.
OP
OP
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Hmmm...I think there's a lot to be said for what this article says in the paragraph beginning with, "The short extractor rod...."
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