Sub-MOA shooters

[Klint Beastwood]

I personally feel that most modern, decent rifles have sun MOA potential. I often read about ammo being the problem and I agree that accuracy nodes can help as well. Some ammo works in some barrels better than others. However I feel that too many people blame ammo or other variables on a group, when really they aren't as good at precision shooting as they think. IMO an sub MOA shooter is someone that can shoot a sub MOA group at least 80% of the time, and considering flyers in the group. It's not easy to be that precise, but it makes for being a long range shooter as well, especially for small targets at long range.

 

[outlawjw]

If you can prop across the hood of your truck &shoot 1&1/4" to 1&1/2" 10 shot groups , shooting 5 shot strings you are a sub moa shooter . You needn't theorize any further . That is at 400 yards.

 

[tuj]

I have several benchrest rifles that HAVE to shoot sub-MOA to even be competitive. These are 22lr rifles at 50 yards. I have also done sub-MOA shooting with factory rifles and an AR I built at 100 yards, but never consistently. I do not hand-load/reload. But I do buy high quality ammo and experiment.

So I think the OP has a good point, there are a lot more internet sub-MOA rifles than there are real sub-MOA rifles. Weird huh?

 

[alaskan9974]

I have two sub moa rifles, but it took work to get them there. I couldn't claim that if I didn't handload and find what works in them. Factory ammo is a compromise at best imo

 

[cdb1]

I have several rifles that shoot sub-moa when I'm sighting them in. That's because I'm using a Caldwell Full Length Fire Control Rest. But the Fire Control Rest doesn't get used of course when I'm practicing or hunting, when practicing I used to occasionally shoot sub-moa from a bench with bags. In the last year I've quit practicing from a bench, I strictly use a bipod. I haven't measured any groups because none of them are close to sub-moa. I have shrunk them from about one foot to probably 4" at 200 yards. Should have started practicing this way years ago. One thing that's kind of unusual is I'm pretty accurate if I'm surprised by an animal and have to take a snap shot.

 

[Art Eatman]

Successful snap shots generally means that you're "all married up" with the fit and feel of the rifle.

Still, group size from the bench should merely be a test of the rifle/ammo combination. After that, groups or hits in the field are a test of the shooter's own personal skill.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Yep Online there are submoa shooters coming out of the woodwork. I have yet to personally see more than a couple who can do it with my eyes on the ground so to speak. When I say more than a couple that's stretching it.

 

[redneck2]

It's typically difficult to just pick up a $400 off the shelf rifle and shoot sub MOA in my experience. Sure it can be done, but accuracy is the sum total of all input. Ammo quality, barrel, trigger, shooter input, weather.

I have three centerfire rifles that shoot sub 1" consistently. One is a Windham Bushmaster Varminter. Air gauged Wilson barrel and 6.5-20 Leupold VX-III scope. First round hits on prairie dogs at 300 yards are common. I spent quite a bit of time working up hand loads. I use Nosler BT's over 26 grains of Varget. Excellent trigger, probably +/- 2#.

Second is an AR in .358 WSSM. Shilen Ultramatch barrel. Leupold VX-R 4-14. Nosler 180 grain bullets. Lower has a 1 1/2# Timney trigger. Shoots .4's pretty consistently. Killed a deer at a lasered 279 yards. This rifle, scope, and loading dies cost over $2k.

Third is a .204 CZ. Took a while to get loads worked out for it. First groups were literally 3-4". Got the barrel settled in and found 39 grain Sierra Blitzkings. Bughole groups now.

I suspect most of the guys that think it's impossible to have a sub MOA rifle are the same ones that think a cheap rifle/scope is just as good as a better one. Spending a lot of money doesn't guarantee an accurate rifle, but it increases the odds. Hand loads can make a huge difference. It's usually a matter of controlling variables.

Number of years ago I read an article about bullet quality. There is a machine (Juenke?) that can be used to check bullet consistency. When the jacket of a bullet is swedged over the core, it sometimes leaves a very tiny void. This throws off the rotational balance (think balancing a tire). Only the bullet is doing 240,000 rpm out of my .204. Doesn't take much of a defect to make it wobble

 

[Poper]

Successful snap shots generally means that you're "all married up" with the fit and feel of the rifle.

Still, group size from the bench should merely be a test of the rifle/ammo combination. After that, groups or hits in the field are a test of the shooter's own personal skill.

Agreed.
I use the bench for load development. I then use High Power Rifle Silhouette competition to devellop my offhand capabilities. In a 40 round match, I am pleased to shoot a 20 and ecstatic to shoot a 25. Most often I am a 15-18 score.

 

[Holescreek]

My buddy stopped by the shop just as I finished making the adapter to fit my brand new suppressor to my modified Mosin. I really wanted to hear it so suggested we make a quick run to the range. I've known him for over 12 years and knew he owned a couple rifles but was unaware that he'd never shot anything but a 1022 at some cans close range. Aftee verifying the zero shift I set him up on a bench at 100 yards. He's much taller than me but tolerated the position pretty well. His very first 5 shot group ever, first time firing a centerfire rifle, first "long range" shots...

 

[MCMXI]

I have a thread going detailing factory load testing with a new sub 7lb rifle. I shot the five 5-shot groups shown below this morning which are all under 1 moa (some barely) plus a scope zero group also under 1 moa. The groups aren't the best but I'm fairly sure that I could work up a load for the rifle in question that would consistently shoot sub .75 moa groups or better. As a handloader I don't expect incredible results from a production rifle shooting factory ammuition but I do expect reasonable performance that tells me something about the rifle's potential.