Super Redhawk or Super Blackhawk: 44, or 454/45

[Huntolive]

CraigC: so the only problem w/ porting is it makes them louder?
Other than that, does it reduce recoil, and add to accuracy, especially for a person new to pistol shooting?
Or is the 44Mag w/ the round you referrenced (much like what I would use for deer, ie 90% of my time hunting) smooth enough with reasonable practice that porting is more a negative?

Would appreciate anyone's experience/thoughts on the Porting factor, and feasability in the field of 9.5"barrels.

Trapper500, tell me more...

 

[98Redline]

As for comparative recoil, I have shot mid-range 454, and while it produced more muzzle blast, the recoil was not overwhelming.
How does mid-range 454 compare in recoil to the type of 44 Mag loads rec. for large game like moose/black bear?

It depends on what your definition of mid range is. 300ish bullet @ 1250-1350 fps will feel a lot like a full power .44mag load. Go higher in bullet weight or velocity and the recoil gets more severe. As the velocity increases, the recoil velocity will also increase which is what makes the 454 Casull recoil distasteful to a number of shooters. Real barn burner 454 loads 1500-1900fps will snap back very sharply. I personally don't like them.

As to 45lc +P out of the SRHH454, what is the effect of the "lower pressure" that some have referred to. Why would this help? Does it mean that you can fire a bigger, heavier bullet with more knockdown power and less recoil than a 44Mag?

The lower pressure essentially is the result of the larger caliber bullet. .45 vs .429. The .45 caliber bullet has around 10% more area for the pressure to work on. So if we look at the force equation:

Force = Pressure * Area​

If we have a larger area for the pressure to work on, we will need less pressure to obtain the same force to accelerate the bullet.

The recoil for two bullets of the same weight leaving the barrel at the same speed will be identical for two different calibers and should feel roughly the same. When you start changing one or the other is when the "perceived" recoil changes. As a rule, heavier/slower loads are typically referred to with terms like "a strong push" where lighter/faster loads are referred to with terms like "harsh" and "snappy". Full power 454 loads will be on the "harsh"/ "snappy" side as the recoil velocity is higher than the .44 Mag loads.

Also need more info on porting. The 9"SRHH 44mag has had Mag-na-port porting done to it at their factory. Apparently it was pretty expensive, and ordered by a person with expereince with 44Mag revolvers, so there has to be a reason for it. Pros/Cons? Or should I just stay away from it? If stay away, why?

See my post in your other thread.
The ports will do nothing for your first shot accuracy, which is the one you want to make count. They help tame the muzzle rise (which isn't bad on a 44 mag to begin with). In keeping the muzzle down it will make it easier to reacquire your sight picture for a 2nd shot.
In practice, once that first shot goes off most likely your intended target will be on the move (even if they don't go that far). The time it takes to line up your shot after the animal moves is so much longer than any gain you get from a faster reacquisition of the sight picture that I find it not worth the extra muzzle blast.
On a competition gun, porting and compensators work phenomenally well, but on a hunting gun I just don't find that much use for them.

I could get both a 9"SRHH ported and a 7.5" ported SBHH Bisley (both 44Mag)for $1000. But price does NOT trump what would be better in the field, as I intend to hunt with these, and could just but a new SRHH 44Mag for $800, or the 454 for $550, SBHH for $500used,etc.

I would buy the $500 SBHH. It is the lowest cost of the bunch and offers the least expensive ammo of the two calibers. Where is there a down side in that?
If you don't like it, sell it on Gunbroker for what you bought it for and move on.

 

[CraigC]

Like I said before, it's louder, it pushes more of the recoil forces straight back into your palm (not a good thing IMHO) and you have to keep the ports clean. With the moderate load I referenced, it's just that much more unnecessary. I'm a sixgun nut, been shooting the .44Mag for over 20yrs, own three dozen sixguns and never considered having one ported. If that tells you anything. Like I also said, I would never buy a ported used gun unless I was planning on whacking the barrel off.

 

[Hammerdown77]

You can start a whole 'nother thread on porting and get 20 pages of arguing back and forth.

My opinion is that it is a viable consideration on shorter barreled guns (5.5" and shorter). Longer guns, I don't think it makes as big a difference.

I have it on a 7.5" SRH and a 5.5" barreled Freedom Arms model 83, both 454 Casull. Both of these guns were bought used, with the porting already done.

With the SRH, the porting really serves to direct more of the recoil straight back into your hand. You may or may not want this.

I think it is useful on the the shorter barreled Freedom Arms. That grip tends to roll more in the hand than the SRH anyway, and the porting just makes it roll less. I do not have any issues shooting that gun with heavy loads.

The SRH has four ports, the FA has two.

If I were paying my own money for it, I probably would not have put it on the SRH. The FA, maybe.

Some people say they can't tell a difference. Others can. Again, I think it depends on which gun has it, barrel length, pressure of the rounds you are firing, and what part of your hand is more sensitive to recoil.

Of all the hunting handguns, I think the 454 Casull is probably one of the better candidates for porting, due to the pressure.

I don't really let it influence my buying a used gun one way or the other, though.

 

[JEB]

Big bore sixguns are loud enough but I would really hate to touch off a heavy load from a ported sixgun without hearing protection, as happens often while hunting. It's just unnecessary, a solution looking for a problem.

my thoughts exactly. on ONE occasion (and i made dang sure it was the ONLY one) i touched off a round from my .44 without anything covering my ears and it felt like chuck norris just roundhoused my ear drum. it hurt REAL bad. since then i have made sure to always keep my ears covered with something (hood, stocking cap, both, etc...). the last thing i need is porting to make that even worse.

 

[Coal Dragger]

I used to own a Dan Wesson .44 Magnum, that was ported and honestly it was pointless. My Freedom Arms .454 is not ported, and frankly the non ported, more powerful .454 is more pleasant to shoot overall. It has taken some practice to get used to full power loads in .454 I am no longer bothered by them. I will point out that for some reason heavier bullets, even those over max loads, recoil in a more pleasant manner than lighter bullets going quite a bit faster. The gun seems to roll more heavily with the heavier bullets, but the recoil impulse is not as sharp.

 

[Huntolive]

So, the porting seems at best a minor plus, and possibly far more nusance than it's worth. Poor guy paid alot for something he can't get his $ back on.

Only way I would buy them is if I thought the 9.5" brl offered an advantage, but I see it as a drawback. Even so, it's hard to turn down: a SRHH 9.5" with 2x-6x lupld scope, AND a SBHH Bisley 7.5"brl w/ 4X scope (lupld) both 44mag, all for $1450, mag-na-ported... ?

Hammerdown, what do you hunt w/ the 5.5"454?
98Red, I see your point on SBHH, but feel if I do that I will still be craving a DA, eithe the 454, or 44mag SRHH.

What r your thought on if it would be better for me to get just 1 gun to master, instead or 2? In that case, it's down to the DA SRHH454/45lc or the SRHH 44Mag.

 

[CraigC]

...it's hard to turn down...

Don't be tempted by the "deal" if it is not what you want. Personally, I wouldn't be tempted at all because they both have too much glass on them and features I would never pay extra for. You're much better off paying a fair price on exactly what you want than getting a "good deal" on something you don't. If you need to buy a new truck because you have a need for its unique features, you don't leave the dealership with a two-door sports car because it was on sale, do you?

 

[Huntolive]

Thanks guys,

I agree CraugC, etc. The ported guns w/ all the high mag scopes are not really what I need. Why would anyone want a 4X scope for pistol hunting?
The 2X-6X would be good, but he won't sell it with the 7.5"SBHH, only w/ the 9.5 I dont want.

So, I hope my learning process has offered some amusement to you old pros, and at least it hasn't cost me anything yet.

What advice do you have about buying guns from folks on this site or rugerforum.net? I have always bought in person, or from Buds in past. But there are guys from these sites who have what I want at fair used prices, such as SRHH lightly used, C. 1998 with rings 44mag w/ 100 rnds ammo $625.
Or SBHH $500ish, and of course the SRHH 454/45 for $550 locally from a buddy. I am leaning towards the 44mags though. Plan is to get either Ultradot 30, or Bushnel 2X-6X 3200 pistol elite.

 

[98Redline]

I can't speak for the guys at rugerforum.net, however I suspect that the core populations is the same bunch of guys that frequent rugerforum.com.

I have never had an issue with any of the guns I have purchased from any enthusiasts forum. As a matter of fact, over 75% of what I own now was bought from internet forums. The thing to take a look at is who is doing the selling. If it is someone who has been on the site awhile and had other good transactions then I would feel pretty confident. Someone with lots of posts generally has more credibility in my book that someone with one post offering up a brand new gun.

Caveat emptor

 

[SEE IT LIKE A NATIVE]

That seems like a good deal on the SRH in 454 ! I would go for it ! I love my Srh in 454 ! You can always download a 454 to do what a .44 mag will do , but you cant make a .44 mag do what a 454 can ! Kevin

 

[trapper500]

Ruger Super Redhawk 9.5" 44 Mag

I like the longer barrel for my needs its gives more velocity without loading the cases with a higer charge it may not be a ton of extra velocity but ill take what i can get if ya like the shorter barrel go for it as for me ill stay with the long barrels both will get the job done its just what one likes the best

 

[Huntolive]

Update:
I am down to 2 guns: both SRHH 7.5" brl.
One is 454/45lc, with about 500 rds. 45lc, lightly used for $800. (Local, from friend of a friend; I have fired the gun, only problem is sticky 454 cases after 45lc)
The other is 44Mag, w/ 100 rds. 44Mag, lightly used for $655. (From a seemingly turstworthy person from gun sites by mail, and he is paying shipping)

To me that makes the price for each SRHH about the same, yes/no?

I am leaning 44Mag, but not at peace w/ walking away from 454 w/ the option to also shoot 45lc.

Question: If I ocassionally shoot 44SP out of 44Mag, will that cause the same problems of sticking cases, that I have encountered with the 454 sticking cases after shooting 45lc?

Also, If I get the 454, I sort of like the idea of shooting mostly 45lc, and just ocassional 454. I plan to handload 45lc, or 44mag. But not 454 Casull.

Could I designate 3 chambers in the cylendar for 45lc -vs- 3 for 454 in the 454SRH, and likewise for the 44 mag, designate 3 for 44mag, and 3 for 44sp, and avoid the sticking cases problem that way, and all the extra cleaning?

Is there any sense in buying both, if I could, (it would be a stretch if I did, and GOD help me if my wife found out!). Or is it better to master 1 gun, and keep it to one type of re-loading?

If 1 gun, which? and why?

 

[Greg528iT]

I think they overlap too much to have both. Unless you just want both.
I'd go with the .454, load 45 colt loads.. any of the crud you get from shooting the 45 colt, can be cleaned out. If you go to the range with both, shoot the .454 first then plink after with the 45 colt. If you are reloading, spend the little extra (lot?) and get the .454 brass and load to 45 colt level loads. Then the cylinders won't have that crud ring.

 

[Hammerdown77]

It's not a big deal to clean out ring left by the 45 Colts. Just take a brush and some Hoppe's with you to the range.

If you are going to get dies and bullets and powder for the 45 Colt, you might as well reload 454 Casull as well. They use the same bullets, can use the same dies (although I like to use a 454 Casull sizing die from RCBS because it seems to give better neck tension). You will need Casull brass (try to find some once-fired for sale on the forums to save some money), and small rifle primers. 45 Colt takes large pistol primers, but the Casull takes the small rifle primers. That is the main difference, aside from the brass.

 

[22-rimfire]

The choice.... you have to look at your tendancies. If I had a 454 Casull, I would envaribly shoot only 454's from it as I would shoot the other less powerful rounds in other revolvers. I don't believe in one size fits all in handguns.

Then there is the 45LC versus 44 mag discussion and preferences. I lean toward the magnum as the price of 45LC ammo is high for what you get. Reloading changes that. But you can reload 44mag brass down too.

As I mentoned in your other thread, I would go with the 44 mag. For a pure hunting gun, the 7.5" works great. I like the 2x Leupold scope. But there is a lot to be said if favor of reddots. For general shooting and some hunting, I favor the 5.5" Redhawk if you like the feel of it when shooting. The Hogue grips help for me.

 

[Huntolive]

Was close to deciding on 44magg.

What gets me is the idea that the 454/45 is really 2 guns in one, both the "starter hunting gun" (45) and the "step up gun" (454) all in one neat under $600 package.

Question:
if high end 44mags recoil is bad, would mid-range 454 recoil be worse?
I have never fired 44. I have fired 454, and found recoil less than I expected, but still flinched a tad.

I have this strange idea that shooting the big, powerful loads at top end of 44Mag (325grns/1300fps) would somehow be nastier than midrange 454 in recoil.
Am I way off base?

I KNOW store ammo for 44Mag is much cheaper,
what about Re-Loading costs for 45lc +P -vs- 44Mag? Or 454 vs 44mag?

 

[stchman]

Definitely A SRH over a SBH. The SBH is a gated SAO while the SRH is a swing out DA/SA. Loading and unloading will be FAR faster with the SRH.

As far as calibers, the .44 Magnum is a lot less $$$ ammo with than .454 Casull.

 

[Prosser]

Depends. In the range you are talking about there is no free lunch.
Bullet weight becomes key in recoil at those levels. 325's at 1350 fps
in .454 are, IIRC, at lower pressure then the equal .44 load, but not by much.

The SRH is not a small gun, and it absorbs recoil well.

Also how well your hands fit, and match to recoil is a big deal, probably more so then the difference in recoil.

Also keep in mind that full house .44 magnum loads are 40k pressure.

Full house .454 loads are 60k, or about that, so that 'medium' load .454 load maybe at 45K or 50k.

I'd also start looking at reloading tables to get some idea of how powerful even minimum loads are in .454, with common powders.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
4227 and H110 are my favorites.

Minimum loads for 4227:
240 GR. FA JHP Hodgdon H4227 29.0 1512 22,300 CUP
260 GR. FA JFP Hodgdon H4227 28.0 1421 19,000 CUP
300 GR. FA JFP Hodgdon H4227 27.0 1541 41,100 CUP
325 GR. CPB LFN PB Ho H4227 24.7 1389 30,300 CUP
325 GR. SFT HP Hodgdon H4227 23.0 1323 42,600 CUP
335 GR. CPB LFN GC H4227 23.0 1306 30,000 CUP
360 GR. CPB LFN GC Ho H4227 21.0 1205 31,000 CUP

Keep in mind the highest pressure, maximum load for the .44 on Hodgdon's
website is 40,000 CUP, and that's with a very fast burning powder.

The FASTEST .44 Magnum loads for 325 grain bullets are:
325 GR. BTB LFN GC Winchester 296 20.0 1264 30,800 CUP 22.0 1368 38,100 CUP
325 GR. BTB LFN GC Hodgdon H110 20.0 1264 30,800 CUP 22.0 1368 38,100 CUP

With 355's:
355 GR. BTB LFN GC Hodgdon H110 17.5 1168 29,300 CUP 18.8 1245 38,000 CUP

There is real merit, even now, in Linebaugh's comments that the 45/454
takes over where the .44 leaves off, and does it with less pressure.

However the .44 magnum will do nearly everything the .45/454 will, but at slightly higher pressure, and with slightly less powder.

I suspect with equal bullet weights you aren't going to be able to tell much difference in recoil, unless you move the .454 into the over 50k pressure range.

My recommendation is you have a better deal on the .454 SRH then a .44 magnum.

As for reloading costs:
The .454/45 Colt can be loaded with ultra cheap .45 ACP bullets for plinking. This usually makes it cheaper then the .44's to reload, in my experience.

All depends on what your going to load. Why don't you do some of the leg work yourself and look up bullets you are likely to use in either caliber, and get specifics, rather then asking for a general
answer to a specific situation?

 

[Hammerdown77]

Even if you are thinking you will shoot mostly 45 Colt in the 454 SRH, I think it is still a good choice. I actually enjoy shooting heavy loaded 45 Colt in my SRH more than the 454 Casull, at least since I got the 454 Freedom Arms. The big SRH really soaks up the recoil, and a 325 or 335 grain cast bullet at 1200 fps out of that gun is quite manageable and will plow through a Buick Roadmaster, should you need to shoot one....

 

[Huntolive]

Thanks to all of you who shared valuable experince, insight and humor.
98 Redline will be relieved to know I have finally decided, and will now get on with actual training! ;-)

You guys are the best! I will also become a re-loader. One more step to ensuring FREEDOM!

 

[98Redline]

After all of these pages of deliberating you say you have decided and then NOT tell us what you picked!?

That is the payoff all of us have been working toward.


BTW: Man law states that you MUST post pictures of your gun when you do take possession of it.

 

[98Redline]

I hope you get the obvious friendly ribbing.....

I certainly hope that the advise/opinions that all of us provided were of assistance.

 

[Huntolive]

Fair enough 98Redline! ;-)

Part of why I didn't say was cause I didn't want to diasapoint you Pops!
Or let down the well informed and 44 lover Craig C.

However I am getting the 454/45LC ;-)

My buddy I'm gettin it from will is a Marine firearms expert, and offered to teach me to reload, and assist with training. Plus, I feel I get 2 levels of gun in one. I will use 45lc heavy hot loads, and can't envision ever needing a gun bigger then 454 Casul.

Still could use advice about mounting red dot or scope to SRHH.
Should be piece o cake, but my rings r standard, so do I need others to mount a ultradot 30? Is Bushnell Trophy red dot or Millet reddot a good alternative?
If scope , I like Bushnell 3200 elite. Leupld too much $. Burris 2X possible.
Those should mount w/ standard ruger rings w/ integral mounts, yes?

Happy Huntin!

 

[firesky101]

If you are going to run .45colt+p levels, and be a reloader anyways, I would suggest loading mid range .454 brass. The brass is stronger, and extraction should be easier with tougher brass.