Super Redhawk or Super Blackhawk: 44, or 454/45

[dvnv]

"Ok, so could I stop my dilema between the 454SRHH and 44Mag SBHH by getting both and using the 454 as my trail gun, and ocassional deer gun (unscoped) out to about 50 yrds.? I can get the 454 from a friend used for $550. (my only concern w/ cost there is long term ammo) Or is it simply too bulky to be a trail gun/ gun I also carry from time to time when rifle hunting?

And using the 44Mag SBHH (probably Bisley) scoped as my primary deer hunting pistol? That way, I do not have to take the scope on and off, I just take the 454, and leave the scope on the SBH."

I would reverse the roles...the 454 for hunting only and the 44 for a trail gun. I'd also want the trail gun to have a 5-6" barrel, not 7.5", though I could live with 7.5" if need be.

 

[98Redline]

+1 CraigC

That top picture looks like a Bowen gun
American holley grip panels?

 

[CraigC]

Thanks gents! That is holly and most of the work was done by David Clements.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Rubber grips, yuck. Double action, or single action all they do is let the gun get a running start at your hand. Never have found a comfortable pair of them on anything.

 

[Huntolive]

Thanks Again!

Ok, so forget the rubber grips. Thanks for the cogent explainations on that.

I am liking the Bisley 44Mag SBHH. But if I can swing it, have a hard time walking away from the 454 DA SRHH.

DVNV said to reverse the roles of 454 and 44Mag: that 454 should be for primary hunting and scoped, and 44Mag should be for trail gun and iron sight occassional hunting.

To me, the DA of the 454 SRH makes it a better trail gun, and scoping the DA dosn't sit well with me. Seems more of a blast w/ iron sights.

The Bisley SBHH seems ideal as dedicated scoped deer hunter. 44Mag has plenty of killing power.

So which approach is better?
Why DVNV would you reverse roles?

 

[Coal Dragger]

I would suggest equipping your choice with a rugged micro reflex sight like a Trijicon RMR or JP J-Point etc. You get the benefit of illuminated aiming point, unlimited eye relief, smaller overall package size. Of course like a scope you will have your aiming point on the same focal plane as your target. The only downside is a reflex sight offers no magnification, but realistically most handgun scopes don't offer much anyway. Plus unless you shoot off of a steady rest the magnification is maddening to deal with as it amplified every shake and tremor.

 

[CraigC]

I would suggest making both guns similar, if not nearly identical. Both single actions, preferably with the same grip frame or both DA's, ditto the grips. That way familiarity and proficiency translates from one to the other. My choice is the above pictured stainless Bisley for a big bore packin' pistol that can also take any game I will ever encounter. As a dedicated hunting sixgun, I have this 7½" Bisley, another Clements custom. A sixgun which has since been fitted with another set of grips by CLC, this time in fancy claro walnut.




Were I wanting to scope it, I would choose the Bisley Hunter I pictured in post #39. Which happens to belong to my father. They all have grips of the same shape from the same maker, except the rounded butt on the 4 5/8" model so they all feel very similar.

 

[dvnv]

+1 on some kind of red dot verses a scope. IMO the dots are lots quicker and easier to use.
+1 on using a Hunter model if you are going to use optics.

Why the 454 for the hunt only gun? Because it is more, specially if you are not going the cast bullet route. The added velocity stretches the point blank range, and it will hit harder with JHPs.

IME, the trajectory difference is more of an advantage for non-game situations...lets say a coyote at an undetermined distance between 100-150 yards. For me, it is easier to hit with something travelling 1,700-1,800 (let alone 2,000 fps) verses something travelling 1,300-1,400. Even more so on something smaller like a rabbit.

For game animals, my imposed range limit makes the trajectory difference moot.

You might consider buying just one (either one) and seeing how well you can teach yourself to shoot it without optics. You might be surpised. When talking about a 6-7.5" barrel, I can do better with optics from the bench, but am just as accurate with irons off hand and from most field positions.

As CraigC kind of mentioned, familiarity with a revolver helps...having just one is an accuracy advantage in itself. It is kind of an art form and one's mind needs to adjust to small, maybe subconscious, nuances when switching from one revolver to another.

If you opted for one of those two guns, I'd advise the 44, figuring it is the easier of the two to master and is still plenty for hunting. dvnv

ps: I like rubber grips on single actions, but opt for wood when I get to 475.

 

[Prosser]

I just got done reading this thread. You've got a great price on the .454 buy it.

Don't worry if it's perfect.

Here is where I ruffle a few feathers. Shoot .45 Colt out of it, period. If you can't get it done with heavy .45 Colt loads, you need a bigger caliber, not more pressure. The .454 was an answer to a question 40 years ago, and the heavy .45 Colt was neck and neck with it back then. Casull wanted a flat, long range hunting caliber, with relatively light bullets compared to Seyfried wanting a big, heavy bullet for close range encounters with big critters.
You can load .45 Colt to be long range and flat, probably a good combination for your deer hunting. You don't need the extra pressure the .454 brings to the table, or the possibility of a sticking cartridge.

See Ross Seyfried and the .45 Colt killing a cape buffalo.

Heavy .45 Colt loads will do pretty much everything a .44 magnum will, and at lower pressure. Plus with the SRH you can load it with .454 if for some reason hogzilla moves in.

If you want a more powerful handgun, go up in caliber. The BFR in .500JRH
is pretty near perfect for a packing pistol. 440 grain bullets at 950 fps
are going to kill anything in the 48. If you are worried, you can run 420's at 1350 fps easily. Some have said these kill like a .375 H&H rifle.

.475 Linebaugh is no slouch, and ammunition can be found at reasonable prices now and then. These calibers are available in guns that are
packable, not the cannons that shoot the S&@ .500.

Grips:
Make sure that you get grips that fit YOUR hands. Your dabbling in a recoil area where if they are too small you aren't going to be able to shoot the gun. Never had grips that were too big, but I'm sure that would be a problem as well.

Best grip for me for heavy recoil, or at least up to 45 ft-lbs, is the FA 83, with the BFR with custom grips a close second. I find the Bisley grip gives
me a bit more to hold on to, but, with heavier recoil it hammers into the palm of my hand. The 'hump' in the grip really pounds my hand. On the other hand it just might be the recoil being at 65 ft-lbs, and no grip is going to soften that.

Once you get over about 275-300 grains and near full house loads grip
design becomes critical.

My .475 Linebaugh and .500 Linebaugh came with grips for a person with small hands. I had to grab the guns so hard for fear of getting killed by the recoil I couldn't shoot them accurately.

 

[Kernel]

I find the Bisley grip ...with heavier recoil it hammers into the palm of my hand.

Exactly, the Bisley comes back in more of a straight line, like most modern pistols. Were as the standard Colt-Army-Type grip frame “rolls” under heavy recoil - resulting in more motion but a a less intense recoil impulse.

 

[CraigC]

My .475 Linebaugh and .500 Linebaugh came with grips for a person with small hands.

I believed all that "thin is better" crap for a while. Until I found out that thicker, well-rounded grips were unbelievably comfortable. Hogue's thick "cowboy" Bisley grips are very comfortable for an off-the-shelf grip but fitment is usually not very good.

 

[98Redline]

For the love of Pete! We now have 4 pages laboring over what is the perfect hunting/trail gun. Granted I have participated but good God man, we are splitting hairs here.

Trying to get a consensus on an internet forum is like trying to herd cats. You are never going to get everyone together and on the same page. Different people like different things. Some like DA guns, some like SA guns, some prefer the 454 some like the 44, yada....yada....yada.

Of all of the guns and all of the calibers mentioned in this thread, there aren't any I would be worried about going into the woods with. All of them will get the job done and quite handily. I may prefer one over the other but it is just that, a preference. Blondes or brunettes, Ford or Chevy, Smith or Ruger, you will find people willing to contribute their opinion on both sides.

The only way you are going to know what YOU like is to commit and buy something. Take it to the range and practice....practice....practice. Come hunting season, take it into the woods and go shoot some deer. You are either going to love what you bought or will find out that maybe it is not quite your cup of tea. In that case sell the gun (you will probably get darn close to what you paid, especially if you bought a used one) and buy a different one.

We could continue to debate this issue forever. Go ahead and check out some of the other gun forums and look for the lengthy threads on .44 Mag vs. .45 Colt or what is the best gun for bear defense. By the time you get done reading them you will realize what I am saying in my previous paragraph.

Handgun hunting is addictive. It is a greater challenge than rifle hunting and once you have taken your first game with a handgun, you will be hooked. Handgun hunting is rifle hunting on about 10 Red Bulls. But in order to participate you will need a handgun you can hunt with....so go get one of the guns mentioned in the thread. Each gun/caliber has it's individual merits but we are really talking shades of gray. There are no wrong answers to the "which gun" question.

Buy a gun and start burning some powder!

 

[Huntolive]

Thanks to All!
98redline, I see your point, but alot of new questions and good info have surfaced along the way, and I am sure several folks, some who just read, have learned something from it. I certainly have. I still agree that practice is the key, but right now, I am grateful to learn from yall's experience while I get the $ together. End of May, I will have one or the other, and then powder will burn and I am looking forward to "handgun hunting being rifle hunting on 10 Redbulls"...

Coal Dragger, dvnv etc, I am interested in the red dot/reflex sights. especially for the DA. I does not seem right to scope the DA SRHH 454.
Plus, are you saying scopes on pistols have more bounce and difficulty acquiring a clear picture, unlike a rifle scope?

98Redline and Kernel, your experience with this?

Of course, for the scoped gun, I lean towards the 44Mag SBHH. Maybe that will be my 2nd purchase, due to used price of 454SRHH.
Please school me on scopes for handguns and reflex sights. I have used red dots on blackpowder. I was planning on getting like a 4X scope if I get one.

Thanks!

 

[Greg528iT]

I have used red dots on blackpowder.

WHAT?????? if that's not an anachronism I don't know what is.

I put red dots on my Springer 1911, and 2 Ruger Mark I, III pistols. By comparison to my buddies, Ruger RH, 44 Mag scoped.. the red dot is WAY WAY easier to get on target. While I end up having aligned, before I pull the trigger it's easier to see the target than twist and align the scope/ gun to finally be able to see thru it. The scope having more glass, absorbs more light so in a dim shooting day, his scope gets dark.

I stated some position earlier, but if you can get the RH in .454 Casul for that price, get it, and shoot 45 colt. Double action, no bid deal on the scoped gun, just put it in SA, as you acquire the target and have the nice steady SA pull.

 

[Greg528iT]

Are you an Olive Hunter? I think we were on page 2 of this thread before I read it as hunT To live

 

[Coal Dragger]

Huntolive,

Yes any handgun will have more tendency to wander over the target than a rifle because only having one effective point of contact, your hands on the grip, with your body; vs three for a rifle, both hands on different parts of the stock and your shoulder, a handgun is less steady.

This difference will be noticeable when shooting offhand or from a field position. You can clearly notice it with iron sights, so just imagine what it will be like at 4X. Some shooters do well with a scoped handgun that has magnification, I find them to be maddening unless I am shooting over a solid rest. I do most of my shooting offhand, in fact I have never benchrested any handgun that I own including the match pistol I shot while in College. That is just me though, and to me a handgun is just that: a gun your hold in your hands to use. Not a gun you rely on some rest or other aid to use. Doesn't mean I'm right though, just that I am opinionated.

 

[98Redline]

I will 2nd the notion that a magnified scope is not a great choice for a gun that will not be shot off a rest. From a field position the extra perceived shake can form some bad habits such as the "drive by" (timing the trigger pull to get the gun to go off as the crosshairs pass your intended POI). It is also heavier and with a gun like a SBHH, the scope mounts pretty far forward so it tends to make the gun nose heavy. A SRH mounts a bit farther back so it is not as much of an issue.

I currently have a tube type red dot on my SBHH (Ultradot Matchdot) and have been exceptionally happy with it. I don't feel that the dot reduces my effective range over a magnified scope. I can still shoot offhand out to about 75 yards accurately and out to about 120 with a rest. And when in the field I can shoot with both eyes open. I certainly don't think that on a revolver the lack of a magnified optic is a negative.

I am currently contemplating a reflex type of red dot (Leupold Delta Point) for my SRH. I haven't fully made up my mind yet on the reflex sights vs. the tube sights. The size is certainly attractive but my Matchdot has held up through a number of hunts, pouring rain, dust, being bumped or whacked on things, and some manhandling by the gorillas at the airport and it has still held zero. I also like the fact that I have a dial to turn up/down the brightness as needed. Most of the reflex sights have either a single brightness setting or are automatically adjusted. If you don't happen to like the adjustment, you are kind of SOL.

For the dot size, I think that a 4 MOA dot is about perfect. A 2moa dot just turns into a fuzzy blob, and a 6 or 8 MOA dot seems a little large for longer distance work.

 

[Prosser]

I had a scope on my FA 83. Only good for range work and bags as far as I'm concerned.

 

[CraigC]

I disagree. For a hunting pistol, I have found a good 2x to be infinitely more useful than a red dot. If I can shoot rabbits at 75yds with a pistol wearing a 2x scope, you can most certainly shoot deer beyond that with a .44Mag. You just have to spend enough time with the rig to get accustomed to it.

 

[Prosser]

The big bore guys seem to like the Reddots. Also recoil at a certain point is going to really shake up a scope. Leupold seems to be the choice for heavy handguns, and they aren't cheap.

 

[Coal Dragger]

CraigC,

2x wouldn't be too bad compared to higher magnifications (that I have never understood on a revolver anyway). I have personally just never shot all that well with a handgun scope even off of a rest. Perhaps more training is what I need.

 

[Greg528iT]

I have a Burris Fast Fire mounted to the slide of the 1911 45 acp. It survives that rapid action of the slide. The slower but hard push of a revolver would be a piece of cake. It's $200.

 

[CraigC]

Leupold seems to be the choice for heavy handguns, and they aren't cheap.

Neither is a good red dot. Leupold is definitely the best but there are other good ones for less money. We've had good luck with Burris. Some folks like Weaver, Nikon or the old Bausch & Lomb line. Leupold is definitely the most bombproof.

The slower but hard push of a revolver would be a piece of cake.

I would wager that an optic riding the slide of an auto is a much easier job than on a heavy recoiling revolver. The forces are more severe and go in a different direction.

 

[Greg528iT]

I would wager that an optic riding the slide of an auto is a much easier job than on a heavy recoiling revolver. The forces are more severe and go in a different direction.

As an engineer, I'll take that bet. The acceleration, deceleration read stop in micro seconds, acceleration back, to another sudden deceleration is going to be WAY harder on an optic / red dot. YES a 44 mag kicks HARD. but those impulses, are slow by comparison to a slide hammering to a stop.

 

[CraigC]

As an engineer...

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that....