The 300 Savage for Polar Bear.
- Thread starter Abel
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I don't know about Polar Bears with a knife but if you go on youtube there are plenty videos of Grizzly, Lion, Elephant, etc... hunting with a bow (they have backup I suppose)
There are even few videos of DG hunting with a spear.
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MCgunner
Member
Ol' Ben Lily hunted black bear with dogs and a knife, was big sport the louisiana swamps back in his day. It was said one stabbed 'em by reaching over the back since the bear would naturally react to the side where the pain came from.
When he moved out west to the Gila river region of New Mexico, though, and started hunting down grizzlies for the ranchers there, even ol' BEN didn't have the cojones to hunt griz with a knife. Besides, probably hard to reach over a griz's back to stab him. Blacks ain't that big.
When he moved out west to the Gila river region of New Mexico, though, and started hunting down grizzlies for the ranchers there, even ol' BEN didn't have the cojones to hunt griz with a knife. Besides, probably hard to reach over a griz's back to stab him. Blacks ain't that big.
Arkansas Paul
Member
.300 Savage is way overkill for polar bear. I'd say a nice .17 hmr. After all, Bell killed 8574385758769657463759605743638596954734 elephants with a 7x57 mauser.
T.R.
Member
You can hunt polar bear with a 300 Savage if you want to. I have zero plans to hunt this far north, ever. But if I did, Marlin 444 would most likely be in hand.
- 300 grain Hornady XTP bullets for wide and deep wound channels.
I hope your life insurance is paid up.
TR
- 300 grain Hornady XTP bullets for wide and deep wound channels.
I hope your life insurance is paid up.
TR
caribou
Member
I think I read somewhere that Polar Bears evolved from Brown Bears.
Polar Bears are classifyed as Marine Mammles, as they only go to land to rest in summer and den up for cubbing. Male Polar Bears do not den up
When specificly going after Bears, lotsa guys around here use .243w, 30-06, .22-250 ect, as they are also popular Caribou and Seal rifles as well.
Plenty do use a .223.
Some guys use ONLY a .223 because they own only one rifle.
They use what they have and what they know well enough to do neck shots on basking Seals, Walrus and Polar Bears. Flat shooting rifles at white on white is a nessesity, as noted, because its very hard to judge range on.
A 17 year old kid shot a Polar Bear here at Noorvik Ak a couple years back with one shot from a .243w, no problemo.
My fatherinlaw, Joe, who was born 1903 hunted Polar Bears as a teen with a 25-35, and only aimed at the Temple between the eye and the ear or base of the skull if it were moving away, and always at close range. He trapped Arctic Fox and hunted Polar Bears in the 20's with his uncle, on the North Slope and mouth of Coville River in Northern Alaska, when he could get 75$ for a fox and 300$ for a Polar Bear, untill the Depression came.
Later in life, he moved up to a 30-06 when the Alaska Territorial Guard Eskimo Scouts gave him a 1917 Enfeild and let him keep it after the war ended, and used that for years.
Fact is, that old man though the .243w was the best of 'em all........
Shot placement IS everything ~~LOL!!~~
Polar Bears are classifyed as Marine Mammles, as they only go to land to rest in summer and den up for cubbing. Male Polar Bears do not den up
When specificly going after Bears, lotsa guys around here use .243w, 30-06, .22-250 ect, as they are also popular Caribou and Seal rifles as well.
Plenty do use a .223.
Some guys use ONLY a .223 because they own only one rifle.
They use what they have and what they know well enough to do neck shots on basking Seals, Walrus and Polar Bears. Flat shooting rifles at white on white is a nessesity, as noted, because its very hard to judge range on.
A 17 year old kid shot a Polar Bear here at Noorvik Ak a couple years back with one shot from a .243w, no problemo.
My fatherinlaw, Joe, who was born 1903 hunted Polar Bears as a teen with a 25-35, and only aimed at the Temple between the eye and the ear or base of the skull if it were moving away, and always at close range. He trapped Arctic Fox and hunted Polar Bears in the 20's with his uncle, on the North Slope and mouth of Coville River in Northern Alaska, when he could get 75$ for a fox and 300$ for a Polar Bear, untill the Depression came.
Later in life, he moved up to a 30-06 when the Alaska Territorial Guard Eskimo Scouts gave him a 1917 Enfeild and let him keep it after the war ended, and used that for years.
Fact is, that old man though the .243w was the best of 'em all........
Shot placement IS everything
~~LOL!!~~
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wankerjake
Member
Ok I'll chime in.
Now, if I'm going polar bear hunting, I'm not packing the .300 savage because yeah, I can place a bigger caliber just as well. But to say it's not possible is ludicrous.
I agree these threads are all the same. It boils down to: yes, it is possible, maybe even adequate, but it isn't optimal.
I've killed two elk with a .300 savage, 150gr soft points. It isn't a fantastic caliber but it will kill stuff. Is it optimal for polar bear? Heck no! But will it kill one if you put it where it needs to go. Caribou is a prime example of a person who knows where to put a bullet. Polar bears are tough, but they'll drop from a skull shot like anything else. We can argue about shot placement all day long, but the truth is if you put a bullet thru the central nervous system, that animal has nowhere to go but down. The trick, of course, is putting it there. Human error really is the deciding factor. The bullet is gonna do what it's gonna do, it's up to the person to give it a chance.
Now, if I'm going polar bear hunting, I'm not packing the .300 savage because yeah, I can place a bigger caliber just as well. But to say it's not possible is ludicrous.
I agree these threads are all the same. It boils down to: yes, it is possible, maybe even adequate, but it isn't optimal.
menacingsquirrel
Member
I think making an ethical and humane kill is the goal of any good hunter. Given this day and age, there's no good reason to use an inferior caliber/bullet unless it's an emergency. Can an animal be taken with a lesser caliber/bullet? Sure, but why take a chance of wounding it and having it suffer.
Just my $0.02.
Just my $0.02.
Clipper
Member
If I wounded a polar bear, I'd be rather more concerned with MY suffering potential than his at that moment...
Arkansas Paul
Member
Clipper beat me to it.
menacingsquirrel
Member
Clipper, point taken with dangerous game. Still, I'd rather have the appropriate gun/bullet combination so I'm safe and the animal is killed quickly. I just don't see why someone would want to use something under powered unless it was an emergency and that was all that was on hand.
Arkansas Paul
Member
menacingsquirrel, I agree 100%. I love this forum, but you'll find on here that many think it's some sort of sin to use anything over the bare minimum. Personally, I prefer overkill to underkill any day of the week. This goes double for an animal that can kill you if you don't kill it first.
And I know people kill them with archery equipment, but 99% of the time there's someone standing close by with a very large weapon in case everything doesn't go just right.
And I know people kill them with archery equipment, but 99% of the time there's someone standing close by with a very large weapon in case everything doesn't go just right.
By the way, a 30-06 class cartridge on bruins (any kind) it is not bare minimum or a piss poor choice by any stretch of imagination.
People thinking that the use of a 375 H&H (and anything higher than that) is necessary for some Northamerican game forget/don't know that this cartridge was designed for large thick-skinned dangerous African game (Hippo, Rhino, Elephant)
Lots of hard and thick skin, fat, very large heavy bones to penetrate on animals weighting several thousands of pounds......not bears (black, brown or white).
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AKElroy
Member
I have read that the most popular caliber among the inuit is the .243. The 300 Savage is savage by comparison. Interesting how arrows from curved bows used to kill these monsters, but a 300 Savage is worthless & weak.
Arkansas Paul
Member
Yep, here we go. Never fails.
1 - I never said it took a .375 to kill a polar bear. In fact, I never mentioned that cartridge.
2 - I never said the .300 Savage was worthless or weak
3 - There's about a 400 fps difference in velocity between a .300 Savage and a .30-06 with most factory loads with the same bullet weights. That's just as big if not bigger than the difference between a .30-06 and a .300 Win mag. They're hardly the same thing.
4 - The blazing fast responses I got, slamming me for wanting a cartridge with a little extra umph, only proves the point I was making.
Look guys, will the .300 Savage kill a polar bear? Of course it will. I never said it wouldn't. I only said that I prefered overkill to underkill. My choice to use a larger round if I ever get a chance to hunt polar bear is my decision. You can use whatever you want. Personally, I'm not taking anything smaller than a .300 Win mag.
1 - I never said it took a .375 to kill a polar bear. In fact, I never mentioned that cartridge.
2 - I never said the .300 Savage was worthless or weak
3 - There's about a 400 fps difference in velocity between a .300 Savage and a .30-06 with most factory loads with the same bullet weights. That's just as big if not bigger than the difference between a .30-06 and a .300 Win mag. They're hardly the same thing.
4 - The blazing fast responses I got, slamming me for wanting a cartridge with a little extra umph, only proves the point I was making.
Look guys, will the .300 Savage kill a polar bear? Of course it will. I never said it wouldn't. I only said that I prefered overkill to underkill. My choice to use a larger round if I ever get a chance to hunt polar bear is my decision. You can use whatever you want. Personally, I'm not taking anything smaller than a .300 Win mag.
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Paul
There is nothing wrong with wanting to overkill rather than uderkill or kill "just right".
I love big boomers myself, I own a 338 Win Mag and I'm on the prowl for a good deal on a 458 Lott...I want a big African cartridge in my collection.
However, some people (not you) think that a 375 H&H cartridge is necessary or at least recommended on some animals in this part of the world.
In reality a 30-06 is perfectly adequate for anything that walk in the Americas....you would not be undergunned, even slightly, with one (again, assuming proper loads for the job) in any situation.
If some folks want to use a 375 on deer, more power to them, we live in a country where we can buy any toy we want.
And you are right, a 300 Savage is not a 30-06, obviously, by any stretch of imagination.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to overkill rather than uderkill or kill "just right"
.I love big boomers myself, I own a 338 Win Mag and I'm on the prowl for a good deal on a 458 Lott...I want a big African cartridge in my collection.
However, some people (not you) think that a 375 H&H cartridge is necessary or at least recommended on some animals in this part of the world.
In reality a 30-06 is perfectly adequate for anything that walk in the Americas....you would not be undergunned, even slightly, with one (again, assuming proper loads for the job) in any situation.
If some folks want to use a 375 on deer, more power to them, we live in a country where we can buy any toy we want.
And you are right, a 300 Savage is not a 30-06, obviously, by any stretch of imagination.
Arkansas Paul
Member
You're right amigo.
I guess extreme either way is silly.
I also share your apparent love for the .30-06. It is my favorite round, hands down.
I guess extreme either way is silly.
I also share your apparent love for the .30-06. It is my favorite round, hands down.
menacingsquirrel
Member
Not to stir the pot (I find this an interesting discussion), but here's an opinion from an Alaskan PH:
"For the big bears we simply do not want to discuss anything under the .338 Mag. with 250 grain premium bullets. Note, we consider this the minimum caliber suitable for use in any of our bear camps! I carry a Brno (CZ model 602) in .458 Lott, and we highly recommend .375 H&H's on up into the big .40's."
Alaska Registered Guide #1043
Certified For Game Managment Units 9, 14, 16, 19, and 21
Tony Dingess
http://www.alaskahunts.net/alaska/gear.htm
"For the big bears we simply do not want to discuss anything under the .338 Mag. with 250 grain premium bullets. Note, we consider this the minimum caliber suitable for use in any of our bear camps! I carry a Brno (CZ model 602) in .458 Lott, and we highly recommend .375 H&H's on up into the big .40's."
Alaska Registered Guide #1043
Certified For Game Managment Units 9, 14, 16, 19, and 21
Tony Dingess
http://www.alaskahunts.net/alaska/gear.htm
Everybody is entitled to their opinion....so now a 338 Win Mag is barely adequate.....I bet in few years nothing short of a 460 Wby will do the trick?? If these guys to to Africa what would they require for an Elephant?? a 105mm howitzer??
Once I read an outfitter suggested weapon page when they said that power was never enough on big bears and they would suggest a 50 bmg on grizzly if there were light enough rifles to be carried around...that says it all....
Some of these "expert guides" should have a little chat with our friend Caribou....how many bears do they hunt every year?? How much time of the year they actually spend in the wilderness rather than outdoor equipment shows??
Look at this Russian guide with what hardware backs his American clients on a Siberian bear hunt....that's right a sporterized Mosin-Nagant....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU3wIorO04s&feature=related
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“Anyone who says the .30-06 is not effective on brown bears or grizzlies either has never used one or is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.”
-An Alaskan Bear Guide
Outdoorlife magazine.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-shots/2008/10/30-06-ultimate-grizzly-cartridge
-An Alaskan Bear Guide
Outdoorlife magazine.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-shots/2008/10/30-06-ultimate-grizzly-cartridge
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Clipper
Member
...I would also be in serious doubt about any guide that tried to tell me .338 was the minimum for anything on this continent.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Guides' advice is intended for the guy who might not be really able to do proper shot placement. Six inches or so in the wrong direction might be okay with a .338, maybe. With a .300 Savage, life might become exciting.
Guides gotta think about worst-case situations. We mostly think we're near perfect.
Folks in the Legal Forum holler about how a cop wants to go home at night. Well, so does a guide. And the guide has the responsibility of bringing the client out in one piece, as well as retrieving the game animal. So, "worst case" and conservative.
Guides gotta think about worst-case situations. We mostly think we're near perfect.
Folks in the Legal Forum holler about how a cop wants to go home at night. Well, so does a guide. And the guide has the responsibility of bringing the client out in one piece, as well as retrieving the game animal. So, "worst case" and conservative.
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