"The bad side of town"

[Buck Kramer]

I have been seeing a lot of posts recently about what people carry depending on where they are going. For example if someone is going to a place known for violent crime aka the bad side of town they will bring a bigger gun, BUG, or an extra mag or two. Is this intent?

I was taught that after an incident weather in a police report of court they will take into account your normal carry and anything more than usual could be used against you. If this is the case then if you "pack an extra mag" are you entering a place knowing your chances of having to use a firearm are higher and could that be called intent?

Just a thought, let me know if I'm over thinking this...

 

[conw]

Not if you keep your mouth shut.

 

[Orkan]

 

[sidheshooter]

If you bring an AR, or a sawed-off 870, and you're not on duty, that might be intent...

Beyond that, darn near anything else even remotely practical for EDC has gobs of "good guy" precedent, at this point. I don't personally think any *legal* handgun/mag/bug/whatever is unexplainable, so long as you can state a cogent case for precedent. Can you name any departments that authorized carry of .44 magnum (to take one extreme example), and why it also makes sense for you? Any that issued the .41 magnum? Any that require 2 spare mags? Any that issue a BUG, in addition to primary? How about your local LEOs: what are they authorized to carry? What's your training? Have you ever been taught by a respected source that more than one spare mag is a good idea? How about a BUG? Can you document that instruction? I'm good with all the above, just as off-the-cuff examples-not that I ever pack a model 29 around daily.

Now then, if someone states to ROs that they normally carry an LCP with no spare mags, but tonight carried a compensated G35 and 6 spare mags because they were looking for gang bangers to get their Travis Bickle on (and did, otherwise nobody would know), then there *is* a big problem, but it isn't necessarily gear related.

That said, followers of Ayoob will tell you that the gun can indeed be attacked in court, but also, the antidote is to have a proven counter in place. Makes sense to me.

Legal pragmatism aside, if the idea going someplace makes one serious about *substantially* upgrading the hardware kit, then that's a great indication that maybe not going is the better part of valor. It would take something pretty unusual (like a wife or kid stranded in a notoriously crappy part of town due to car break down) to make me reach for more than the plain vanilla EDC convinience. And *any* situation that makes me think armed conflict is more than a remote possibility is certainly a job for paid grown-ups with badges. JMO.

(of course, IANAL, as these posts sometimes finish.)

 

[Kleanbore]

If this is the case then if you "pack an extra mag" are you entering a place knowing your chances of having to use a firearm are higher and could that be called intent?

What is it that you are trying to ask?

 

[Orkan]

If I'm interpreting right, he wants to know if he knows the chances of conflict are higher, and brings an extra mag... then shoots someone... if he will get into trouble.

Obviously the OP hasn't done much research on what happens after a shooting.

Bottom line, if it ever happens, you need to say one thing: "I was afraid for my life."
Once you've said that... SAY NOTHING ELSE. They WILL take you to jail. Get used to this fact. Once there, say NOTHING until you have had a chance to confer with your attorney.

How prepared you are, or are not, is NOT grounds for a conviction unless you open that flap between your nose and your chin and give them something they need to jail you more permanently.

 

[trex1310]

They WILL take you to jail. Get used to this fact.

This is not necessarily true at all. It would depend entirely on the
circumstances of the shooting. It would also depend on where
in the country that you live and the attitude of your police and D. A.'s
office. You might be taken to the police station (not jail) for questions
(this is when you ask for your lawyer).

 

[Trunk Monkey]

One thing that I read over and over here is if the place you are going is so dangerous you feel the need to bring and extra gun , don't go .

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Orkan: Bottom line, if it ever happens, you need to say one thing: "I was afraid for my life."
Once you've said that... SAY NOTHING ELSE.

This sticky was posted because of statements like that.

 

[MedWheeler]

I carry the same setup no matter where I go. I also try to avoid going anywhere with my gun that I would not go without it.

 

[mortablunt]

It's not intent, although a malignant prosecution could spin it that way. Remember that the proescution, at least theoretically, has to prove that you went in there with criminal intent. OC'ing an AR-15 in the rough side isn't intent, and having already owned the guns, ammo, and mags for some time will go to disprove criminal intent. Now buying an AR-15 the previous Sunday, running your mouth on Facebook, getting a bunch of tactical accessories, and then going around with it in your arms when you have to use it for self defense would be a very hard sell.

 

[scaatylobo]

remember DODT ?

Well then the answer is NO to the O.P.
:banghead:.

 

[mortablunt]

^ DODT?

Delighted
Over
Delicious
Toast
?

 

[MikeG]

One thing that I read over and over here is if the place you are going is so dangerous you feel the need to bring and extra gun , don't go .

The flip side of that is assuming that the good part of town is safe and letting your guard down or carrying light or not at all. I think its best to assume anything can happen to anyone anywhere and be consistent.

 

[gallo]

Again, this plays back to the whole argument about odds vs. stakes.

It would be silly to carry a small umbrella for when the forecast for rain is 10% and a big umbrellas for when it is 60%.

The odds of rain have nothing to do with the umbrella selection. Rain always feels cold and wet regardless of the odds.

 

[HDCamel]

One thing that I read over and over here is if the place you are going is so dangerous you feel the need to bring and extra gun , don't go .

I can't help going there.
I live there.

 

[Fred Fuller]

If you carry the same things all the time, and don't change what you carry according to circumstances, it isn't likely to cause a problem.

 

[fallout mike]

I work in the worst neighborhoods most of the time. There is no choice but to go other than finding a new profession.

 

[fallout mike]

I'm always prepared the same way though.

 

[locnload]

"That man attacked me with a knife, I was in fear for my life, I will be happy to explain further when my attorney is present." Then shut up and wait to consult with your lawyer. Ultimately, you should always be able to explain your gear and your actions without sounding like a Congressman trying to explain pictures of his privates showing up on some teenage girls cell phone.
You don't carry a bigger gun when you expect trouble, you carry one regularly and downsize only when dictated by activity or clothing requirements.

 

[Owen Sparks]

How would they know what size your regular gun is?

 

[Cosmoline]

Why are you worried about intent? Intent to do what?

If the police believe you were planning to murder X, then whether or not you brought firearm A or firearm B really does not matter. If you were planning on defending yourself and brought additional rounds due to the dangers of a place, you've broken no law.

I get the sense some of you are thinking that you must not intend to defend yourself. It's pretty strange.

I was taught that after an incident weather in a police report of court they will take into account your normal carry and anything more than usual could be used against you.

Used against you.. how? By whom? For what? If you were indeed planning on going to murder a man, surely you'd bring LESS ammunition because you have a known target and would toss your firearm and all ammo.

 

[harrygunner]

I doubt intent can be gleaned from what gun you used.

Personally, I like the idea of not going somewhere with a gun that I wouldn't go without one.

More so, swapping guns is illogical. We don't have the information beforehand to logically decide which gun to take as we leave the house. Any particular trip could lead to a self-defense situation.

 

[conw]

This sticky [Ayoob thoughts on how best to handle post-incident police interview] was posted because of statements like that.

I know you didn't post that in response to me, but I said "Not if you keep your mouth shut," and was referring specifically to the concerns the OP articulated, which if you don't post a daily gear blog, or really have a serious case of logorrhea, should not be implied in your post-incident police interactions, thus "keeping one's mouth [as] shut [as possible]." Obviously you know it is a false dichotomy to assume one must either blab about this and that, or be tight lipped. The trick is where to bias our margin of error, and I'd still argue it should be biased toward saying too little rather than too much.

 

[2zulu1]

I'd submit that there are places along the International border that would be considered the "bad" part of town. I always CCW, usually a Colt 1911 XSE in the console (what the SO carries) and an AR. There have been times when I've stopped on lonely dirt roads while a deputy has been in the process of making an arrest. Given my background, it's just an old man protecting the deputy's six; an action that's appreciated in this part of the world.

There was an incident when a plains clothed deputy was in pursuit of an assault suspect, took time to advise three of us of what was going down, he continued the chase that ultimately ended up being on foot.

The deputy had recognized one of us and we blocked an east escape. Of more importance was a rancher who had stopped his rig at an intersection, inside his stock trailer were three saddled horses.

More LE backup arrived and the felon was arrested, but had the situation deteriorated, the felon would have been run down using horses.

To answer the question, there are times when citizens and LE are on the same page and that includes having the ability to share equipment and ammunition if the perfect storm were to happen.