"If I'm going into a bad area..."

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 Maybe we should use a different term than "Bad Area".

I'm going to try to get this right but I'm pretty sure I'm going to get it wrong.

I think we all have different concepts of what constitutes a "Bad Area" but we all know what a Transitional Space is. And we (should) all know that the majority of reputable trainers advice avoiding (if possible) transitional spaces after dark. If it's not possible we need to be on our guard in transitional spaces.

I've said this before but I spent the majority of my work life hanging out in transitional spaces, during the hours of darkness, trifling with petty criminals.

I can tell you from direct personal experience that's where the poop goes down after dark.

It's been my experience that about an hour or so after the bars close people congregate at convenience stores and at a very few all night diners because those are the only things is open at 2:00 in the morning. That's where the predators are too.

When I was working there is a place that I had to go check that was way the hell out in El Paso County. I would make a point of going out there at about 1:45 every night and just in the natural course of things I usually didn't get done out there until about 3:00 in the morning and back to town about 0330 about the time the morning commute was starting.

The difference was like night and day. The air even felt different
 
Double Naught Spy said:
Every area is a bad area when there is a bad guy present.

I don't have any problem with "bad areas," only bad situations.

Of course, I have lived in several areas that were considered bad areas by the hoity toity. Can't say I had any more problems there than in better areas.

I will close with the cry of the ill prepared (many of whom are gun owners), "But we live/work/were in good area..."
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"But we live/work/were in good area..."

That's what Vince Foster (or Jeffery Epstein, JFK, MLK, Marilyn Monroe, Princess Diana, Jimmy Hoffa, Tupac Shakur, etc etc etc) said . . .
 
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wayneinFL said:
I plan pretty well. Other people in my circle are more human. I've surrounded myself with enough humans that stuff happens beyond my control. Wife's been up day and night with a newborn and now the 5 year old has a 103 degree fever and she can't find the children's ibuprofen. Or the old man calls at 1AM needing help. Plenty of reasons to leave the house at night.

Not every midnight trip is a craving for ice cream.
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I'm fairly certain I covered that. I realize emergencies happen. This is what I'm talking about
 
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The Night Rider said:
1. The reality is that all of us are at pretty low risk.

2. Having said that, don't sit there

*Require (something) because it is essential or very important.

And try to tell me that it's required or essential for you to make a late night trip to Walmart when you're just doing it for convenience or to make a statement that "You ain't afraid of no ghosts."

I'm sorry (not really) that you're offended that my life circumstances don't "require" me to be out after "dark".

I kind of don't care if this bothers you or not but I'm usually done with everything I have to do outside of my house by 2:00 in the afternoon. I try to set it up that way. It's a great feeling. Even retired it's a wonderful feeling to know that I'm done with everything I have to get done today.

Even if you remove the self-defense component from this entirely, I go out of my way to structure my life in such a way that I don't get caught short. I don't run out of things unexpectedly. My life doesn't require Late Night Trips (really anywhere) to Walmart. I'm pretty sure my life would run that way if I lived in Dubois Wyoming (population 971).

But I work nights for a long time and I've seen what kind of people hang out at Walmart after Dark. I'm pretty sure I've had more run-ins with them than you have. If I was "afraid of the boogeyman" I wouldn't be have been working as a security guard after dark for 15 years.

There's quite a difference between not being afraid and not being stupid*.

* having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.
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Life can be pretty simple when you are only responsible for yourself.

If we are going to be critiquing choices, why did you select a 15 year nighttime security guard career that automatically put you a greater risk for a criminal encounter?
 
.455_Hunter said:
You had ZERO other options for gainful employment?
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IDK. I worked on the Colorado Springs Utilities contract for half of my "Career". They paid 25% above scale for security and I got OT weekly. It paid the bills and some left over to put in the bank.

I mean for what amounted to unskilled work the pay was pretty good.

By the time the company I worked for lost the Utilities contract and I had to go to Allied I had enough experience that I was making pretty good money and it would have been hard to go back to a factory and explain why they should hire me with 6 years working outside of my field.

I learned a lot working in security.

I talked about it here a lot. I know what it looks like when somebody's interviewing you because I've been interviewed.

I never have and I never would claim that being a security guard is the same or even close to being a cop but there are some similarities.

Cops are good at spotting lies because they get lied to all day long. The same lie that that crackhead tells the cop he's going to tell it to me too. And the lie that that crackhead is telling me he is not first crackhead to tell me that lie. I've heard that one before. I remember I was watching an episode of Live PD one night and the crackheads started lying to the cop and I am not kidding you I had heard the same lie word for word from another crackhead a couple of days previous

I know what it looks like when somebody is setting me up for an ambush because I've seen people set me up for an ambush more than once and I've stopped people from setting me up for an ambush I just making it clear that I knew what I was looking at and that they weren't going to catch me by surprise.

I think that being a security guard for 15 years was a wonderful education in Street smarts.

That's why I don't do things like making unnecessary(really anytime) after dark trips to Walmart
 
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The Night Rider said:
I asked you a pretty specific question and you keep ducking it.

Again, what are you getting from Walmart that's so critical that you have to run off at 10:00 at night to get it?

To put it another way Again, what are you getting from Walmart that's so critical that you're willing to accept an increased risk of a criminal encounter to get it?
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Wow OK,
Just because you can't think of/dream up a scenario that requires a trip to Walley world at 10:00pm doesn't mean they don't exist.
Ever had a kid wake up sick @ 10 and need some OTC medicine??
How would you plan for that, have one of every OTC med for every type of ailment your kid could ever get during the night?
I think not.
I won't be dragged into a "what If" battle of scenarios here, you can play that game if you want, but I won't be in it, and have no interest in any stories about when you were "working".
jmo,
.
 
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The Night Rider said:
IDK. I worked on the Colorado Springs Utilities contract for half of my "Career". They paid 25% above scale for security and I got OT weekly. It paid the bills and some left over to put in the bank.

I mean for what amounted to unskilled work the pay was pretty good.

By the time the company I worked for lost the Utilities contract and I had to go to Allied I had enough experience that I was making pretty good money and it would have been hard to go back to a factory and explain why they should hire me with 6 years working outside of my field.

I learned a lot working in security.

I talked about it here a lot. I know what it looks like when somebody's interviewing you because I've been interviewed.

I never have and I never would claim that being a security guard is like being a cop but there are some similarities.

Cops are good and spotting lies because they get lied to all day long. The same lie that that crackhead tells the cop he's going to tell it to me too.

I know what it looks like when somebody is setting me up for an ambush because I've seen people set me up for an ambush more than once and I've stopped people from setting me up for an ambush I just making it clear that I knew what I was looking at and that they weren't going to catch me by surprise.

I think that being a security guard for 15 years was a wonderful education in Street smarts.

That's why I don't do things like making unnecessary(really anytime) after dark trips to Walmart
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Normally, I would offer nothing negative about the above content. However, when you are offering critical assessments about other people's criminal risk, be prepared for that assessment to be directed right back.

I doubt it took 15 years to distill your feelings on the "night". You had plenty of opportunity to re-train to another job if reducing personal risk as much as possible was your goal.
 
Tilos said:
Wow OK,
Just because you can't think of/dream up a scenario that requires a trip to Walley world at 10:00pm doesn't mean they don't exist.
Ever had a kid wake up sick @ 10 and need some OTC medicine??
How would you plan for that, have one of every OTC med for every type of ailment your kid could ever get during the night?
I think not.
I won't be dragged into a "what If" battle of scenarios here, you can play that game if you want, but I won't be in it, and have no interest in any stories about when you were "working".
jmo,
Click to expand...

I wonder if he has ever been responsible for other people- spouse, kids, parents?
 
.455_Hunter said:
Normally, I would offer nothing negative about the above content. However, when you are offering critical assessments about other people's criminal risk, be prepared for that assessment to be directed right back.

I doubt it took 15 years to distill your feelings on the "night". You had plenty of opportunity to re-train to another job if reducing personal risk as much as possible was your goal.
Click to expand...
When did I say that reducing personal risk as much as possible was ever my goal?

Reducing unnecessary personal risk as much as possible really should be everybody's goal.

I don't necessarily take exception with you going to Walmart in the middle of the night, which I don't think is even possible anymore because most of them were closed at 11:00 p.m.

What I took exception with was you saying that your life required you to go to Walmart at 11:00 at night. As in you had no other option.

If your kid's teething and screaming at 11 o'clock at night and you can only get pain reliever for teething at Walmart, then yeah you've kind of got to go.
(Actually , A little vodka on Junior's gums would have hooked him right up)

Going to get Mom's groceries at 11:00 at night because it was convenient, not so much
 
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.455_Hunter said:
I wonder if he has ever been responsible for other people- spouse, kids, parents?
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I don't know maybe ask my wife and kids.

And again, let's not forget I asked you very specifically what requires you to go to Walmart after hours and you basically said because I want to and that's all the justification I need and really, that is all the justification you need but that doesn't make it any less a dumb decision.

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Dumb Ways to Die

Get our latest mobile game!Apple - https://tinyurl.com/dumbwaysappleGoogle Play - https://tinyurl.com/dumbwaysandroidDownload the song: https://itunes.apple....
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To get back on track...

Generally speaking, daytime is a better choice for conducting business out-and-about.

However, if you are in public after dark, either by circumstances or choice, there are some good protocols to follow:

When arriving in your vehicle, take a tour of the parking lot. Do you see patrons, couples, and families actively coming and going? or do you see vagrants and groups of individuals just chillaxin or keeping the wall from falling over?

When entering or leaving a transitional space (your car, the business, etc), pause for a second and assess what is going on. Do things appear "normal", or is there yelling, revving engines or a general state of duress?

When moving on foot, operate in a manner that balances confidence with continuous assessment. Any bogies inbound?

Carry a high-lumen flashlight that can be immediately deployed weak hand, even if it's just to illuminate the shadow next to your car upon approach.

Always be armed with a sidearm. The style, caliber or capacity is a personal decision with way less importance than being competent with whatever you choose.

A supplemental non-lethal is also a good choice if you can plan it into your EDC.
 
AlexanderA said:
I agree with the OP about not going into a "bad area."

However, if you must go there, your best defense (even better than a gun) is to look like you belong there.

In the fall of 1956, my father taught for a semester at the University of Chicago. Even back then, the area had a rough reputation. My father witnessed several muggings. But they never touched him. He actually overheard one of the muggers, as he walked by, telling the victim (pointing to my father) "he's one of ours."

There's a YouTube blogger, who goes by the name of "Spanian," who's posted a series of videos walking through some of the roughest neighborhoods in Europe (and elsewhere in the world). Unbelievable open drug use, graffiti, cheap brothels, and lots of crime. Yet the criminals never bother him. The reason is that Spanian served ten years in an Australian prison, and looks the part of a criminal (neck and scalp tatoos, mannerisms, etc.). He looks frightening. (He's obviously been reformed, judging from his commentary.)

So, if you can adopt a convincing "biker" persona, you're unlikely to get mugged. The idea is to have the criminals fear you more than you fear them.
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After a decade on the job I can say with confidence that criminals are the victims of criminals far more than normal people. That isn't to say that regular people aren't often victims of crime but deliberately looking like a criminal isn't going to get you anywhere.

Best is to not stand out like you have anything worth taking or fighting over. Trying to look tough just means that you get jumped by 4 guys instead of 2.
 
Seems to me that when a thread devolves into whether or not it's prudent for someone to make a late-night trip to the local Wal-Mart, the Strategies, Tactics and Training aspect has left the building.

I am happy for the members that can live their lives safely in the confines of the own homes, without ever being required to transit through, heaven forbid, the bad part of town or *gasp* darken the doorstep of a Wal-Mart. And so glad everyone is so prepared, stocked up with food, medications, diapers, baby formula, tampons, beer and cigarettes that they never have a problem that Instacart, Door Dash or Wal-Mart+Inhome can't solve.

Door Dash, Domino's and Wal-Mart do not deliver to my house out in the woods. The only deliveries I want ever seeing my driveway, my house, my layout and my front porch are UPS, USPS and FedEx anyway.

Beyond that, sometimes life just happens, and going into what you may consider a "bad area" actually is necessary, or at least, a better option than not going...

People have been discussing "up-arming" to go into "bad areas" since the advent of internet gun forums, but frankly, on this forum, I haven't seen the posturing (that a couple members seem to believe frequently occurs here) as far as people who "feel confident" going into the bad areas simply because they are armed or carrying a higher capacity firearm and more spare mags or rounds. So, getting back to the actual OP:
RetiredUSNChief said:
My point in all this is that there appears to be a not-insignificant-number of people who assess acceptable risks based on how well they're armed rather than in terms of a comprehensive risk management approach.
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Chief, any recent examples of this? Because I actually read all of the posts in every thread that I end up posting in, and I just haven't seen a significant number of folks indicating this line of thinking.

We discuss preparedness and situational awareness ad nauseum, so the more I read through threads such as this one, the more I wonder what we're really quibbling about, besides some self-righteousness showing through from the folks who say they never go to Wal-Marts, never leave the house after 10 p.m. and wouldn't be caught out in a bad part of town for any reason. Guessin' we have some folks here whose young child never woke up at 11:00 p.m. with bad congestion and a heavy cough, with no OTC meds in the house, or a wife who sheepishly admits she's out of sanitary napkins or tampons at midnight and needs some now... Had the wife call on the way home from a double shift and her car broke down in East Oakland? (Sorry, babe, I gotta be up in a couple hours, call an Uber, you shouldn't have to wait more'n a hour or so) Or had to take a family member or friend to an ER on the Hilltop in the middle of the night... Or just were craving some of the best barbeque in the state, and guess where it was?
 
Old Dog said:
Seems to me that when a thread devolves into whether or not it's prudent for someone to make a late-night trip to the local Wal-Mart, the Strategies, Tactics and Training aspect has left the building.
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Timing and location are key elements of strategy.
 
Here we watch as Clint Smith explains the “back-up gun” issue for those who have a penchant for frequenting s... areas.

[Content dleted by mod]
 
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