The best scopes in the world?

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Zak you return...haven't seen you about in a long while (perhaps I was just in the wrong forum)...thank you for recommending the Premier, though the rifle has yet to arrive (should be here this Friday) the optic looks to be great right out of the box. I am a bit surprised that the PR tops the Hensoldt on your list...I know it is a great deal less expensive ($2250 vs. $3500 for a comparable unit). So far I am very pleased with it and I will update the review when the scope is mounted and shock tested. :D
 
The Hensoldt lacks a true zero stop. On my AI-AWM (7RM) with a 28 MOA base, it only has about 17 mils up from zero compared to the S&B in the same configuration that has over 22. Otherwise I like it quite a bit. The 4-16x56 Hensoldt is very compact. I will be doing some optical resolution tests in the next week or so using a few different shooters' eyes.

I've had very little time for forums lately - been busy with other stuff including the suppressor business, day job, writing, enduro racing, etc.
 
If any brand of scope does what you bought it for and does it well enough to suit you then you have the "best" scope for you. If that scope costs $89,good for you,if it costs more than an ATV and you can afford it then IT is the "best" scope for you. There is a point when you aren't getting better you are just spending more.
 
yea that Zeiss Victory will shoot the gun for you. it will even clean the gun and do the dishes.
 
That point is somewhere over $2000, however.
Click to expand...
To an extent I must disagree with you. It really depends upon the use and the features that you want in a scope. For hunting purposes I feel that $1k will get you all the scope that you need (for typical magnification and lighting needs) and anything of greater expense is unwarranted...of course that is just what my eyes tell me. As far as a "tactical" optic where FFP, greater range of adjustment and magnification, target turrets, et cetera is desired I have to agree 100%...and I feel certain that is what you were eluding to. :)
 
Sure, there's no reason to spend five gazillion dollars on a scope to shoot deer within 250 yards. I run cheaper scopes on my .22's and stuff. However, there are qualitative features that you get more of as you step towards $2000. I mainly just wanted to ward off the meme that "No $3000 scope does anything more than my $35 Barska."
 
I have never paid more than $300 for a hunting scope. I do not shoot at 1000 yard targets or shoot for one hole groups at 400 yards. My shooting is done at 300 yards and under. Legal hunting hours are sunrise to sunset. All of my scopes Leupold,Nikon,Bushnell and even a Barska gather sufficient light to allow hunting up to the last minute of legal hunting time. They are all shock resistant and RARELY have to be re-zeroed if bumped. If I were shooting competition I might spend a little more but for my purposes these scopes are all I need.
 
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That $12,000 Zeiss seems to be a scope with an integrated ballistics calculator, similar to Barrett's BORS/Leupold Mk.4 combo...
 
Best?

The best for my money is the Mark 4 series from Leupold.
My plans call for a NightForce scope as soon as I can scrape
up the funds, but I doubt I would be able to enjoy the advantages
a super expensive, high-end scope has to offer - I'm not that good.
 
At the range most people shoot there isn't much difference between best scopes and good scopes. It isn't until you go to long range and varying conditions that the real qualities of best scopes comes out. At 100 yards you really don't get a whole boatload of difference between cheap, good, and best scopes. I have some cheap ebay scopes that are just fine at 100 and 200 yards. The reticle lines are a little thicker than my best scopes, but unless you are trying for long 600+ shooting that isn't really an issue. As a matter of fact they can be a help for hunting since they don't get lost in background clutter as easily. Then the whole issue of reticles. What you get may depend on what reticle you want. I like my IOR because of the MP-8 reticle.

Then reliabilty comes into play. I have had cheap, good and best scopes all fail. I've had cheap, good, and best scopes do fine. My IOR that I like so much started having problems going out of focus. My gunsmith sent it back for inspection/repair. While I was waiting (IOR has reputation for long turn-around times) I got a cheap scope from ebay. XDioptics (Chinese - seems they have several names for what seems to be the same scopes) that is on my AR10T. It now has a couple hundred rounds and is working just fine. Turns out that particular model IOR has problems not with recoil, but with shock of bolt return. The heavier AR10 bolt return knocked the focus lens loose. IOR replaced the scope and recommended it not go back on a heavy semi. They are aware of the issue and are working on it. So it is now on one of my bolts. I am looking to replace the Chinese scope when I get the money. I will probably go Nightforce like what I've got on my M1A. But until then that cheap $150 scope soldiers on.

There are so many things to weigh besides magnification and reticle. What adjustment increments do you want ? Do you want a reticle that illuminates ?
What tube diameter do you want ? How much weight ? What size objective (it will mean a difference in how high you have to mount and then may change how you have your cheekweld, etc) ?

I have found that as I age and my eyes get worse I have gone to higher magnification. I now have a problem with a multiple astigmatism that I can mostly eliminate with higher mag. So I shoot higher mag than most. An advantage is that at 200 I can easily see the holes and don't need a spotting scope. Friends like the high mag for the immediate feedback on each shot without having the spotting scope. If I take it to low magnification my eye problem is more pronounced.

So to the question of which is best. How much do you want to spend and what are you going to do with it ? If price is no object and you are just buying an ego scope for bragging rights S&B seems to be the right one. Not saying anything bad about S&B, they are a benchmark for among the best.
 
Zak Smith said:
I have the following criticisms:

* second focal plane not ideal for PLRS
* no 0.1 mrad click options
* no mil-based reticle options
* elevation knob turns "wrong way" (ie, vs. S&B), marginal preference issue
* unclear if it has a zero stop or not
Click to expand...

When I bought a Zeiss a few months ago, one of the first things that I noticed was that the windage/elevation knobs are opposite (affect on POI) to all of my Leupold Mark 4 scopes. Personally, I find the Leupold system intuitive in that you turn the turrets counter clockwise (unscrew) to move the POI up or right. The reticle on the Leupold is actually moving down (elevation) or left (windage) but who cares about the reticle ... right?

Zak's excellent optics article mentions the difference between Leupold's M1 and M3 elevation knobs (I have both) and I wonder if it'd be possible to add a zero stop feature to the M1 knob.

As for Zak's list, I've used and played with an S&B PMII (4-16x50, P-3 reticle) and a couple of Nightforce scopes (5.5-22x50, mil-dot reticle) and spent some time looking through and playing with an IOR. I used them all in bright conditions (the S&B at 600 yards, the NF at 100 yards, the IOR away from the range) and they all have great features and excellent glass. The S&B was the only scope that I remembered to check for edge distortion which it definitely had on 16x at 200 yards. My experience with those scopes convinced me that the Mark 4 line is an EXCELLENT entry level option for serious work. For 99% of shooters, a Mark 4 at less than half the cost of a S&B is no slouch, and for 25% more a Nightforce is an excellent choice. If anyone has ever shot at 600 yards plus on a hot day, with a hot barrel, you'll realize that mirage is a royal PITA regardless of what scope you have. So for me, when I build another long-range rifle, I'll almost definitely choose a FFP Nightforce with mil/mil adjustments and reticle.

:)
 
Clockwise knob rotation is more logical because numbers increase left to right, the same direction we read.

I think it would be possible to add a zero-stop to the M1 knob, the same way people are doing with the Nightforce knob: add a plastic/nylon split washer of the right thickness under the bottom edge of the knob cap.

I find eye position to be a lot more critical with the NF scopes (and USO) vs. the S&B scopes. The "small" elevation knob of the NF (IE, 40 1/4 MOA clicks or 50 0.1 mil clicks) is also more cumbersome to use compared to the many-click knobs (S&B ST/DT, USO EREK, Hensoldt, Premier), especially when dialing past 500-600 yards.
 
I am sorry and do not know of your background (perhaps you speak of the old/good Leatherwood) but how can Leatherwood possibly make the list? The others I can [somewhat] understand. :)
 
The two that I think are the best are Swarovski and Schmidt and Bender, with the later having a slight edge. As with other scopes, they have their "bargain" models and their pricier ones. Go with a real pricey Schmidt and Bender. I don't think you'll have any complaints.
 
don't get all caught up in the most $$$$$

Just cause it costs 12,000 clams doesn't automatically make it the best scope in the world. my buddy shoots 1000 yard .50 cal. competitions on a world championship level. he says that almost everyone at these events shoots NIGHTFORCE. nuff said. I've ordered a NF 12-42 x 56 Benchrest for about $1300.00 That'll probably be the best scope in the (my) world in my opionion.:)
 
Zac Smith said:
Clockwise knob rotation is more logical because numbers increase left to right, the same direction we read.
Click to expand...

Hmmm ... I see your point there but I still find the Mark 4 system works (and is intuitive) for me.

Zak Smith said:
I think it would be possible to add a zero-stop to the M1 knob, the same way people are doing with the Nightforce knob: add a plastic/nylon split washer of the right thickness under the bottom edge of the knob cap.
Click to expand...

I think you're right. With the elevation set for a 100 or 200 yard zero, a plastic washer with the correct thickness would act as a zero stop when placed over the threaded shaft at the location show by the arrow. Brass or steel shims with the correct hole size and OD would be ideal to fine tune the stop. It's more work than scopes that come with a zero stop but it could be worth it, particularly if you don't change the load or zero often.

mark4_turret.jpg


:)
 
Zak Smith said:
I actually meant on the outside of the large turret body itself-- it works for NF anyway
Click to expand...

OK ... I see what you mean ... but I like my idea better. In fact, a thin nut or lock ring with the correct thread size and a small set screw could be installed on the threaded shaft shown above. Once the zero is set, turn the lock ring down until it stops and tighten the set screw. That lock ring would act as a zero stop and it'd be easy to adjust if the zero was changed for any reason. Anyway, lot's of ways to achieve the same thing. The plastic or nylon spacer could have set screws to adjust the thickness as well.

Back to "the best scopes in the world".

:)
 
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