The K Frame

[Carbon_15]

tagged....
great photos all

 

[ugaarguy]

Newkid, The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 3rd Edition (oft abbreviated SCSW by enthusiasts) lists 125K000 to 269K999 for K frames made in 1982, which your M19's SN falls into.

That's slick little 2.5" 19 you've got, and the jeweled hammer & trigger are a cool touch. Welcome to THR and The K frame club.

 

[AStone]

Took the 65 to the range yesterday.

12 and 25 yds with .38 and .357.
About 18 of each.
(I only had 1/2 hr for the 65.
The other 1/2 hr was devoted to the 336.)

Impressions:

Solid revolver.
I like it a lot.
(OK, I love it.)

Will be glad to get full grips on.
With .357, that exposed metal backstrap sucks.
Recoil is absorbed directly into the base of the thumb joint.
Makes one flinch.
(Hear that, mr. gunshop manager?
I ain't happy with these grips. )

I have two observations/questions about the experience.
Apologies if they're a bit outside the purview of the club.

1) Observation: at both 12 and 25 yds,
my shots were predominantly (95%) left and slightly high.
One firearm instructor suggested to me that it could be from "heeling":
raising the barrel by raising my wrist just before hammer drop.

Question: How would you advise a shooter who is shooting left and slightly high of center to hit COM.
(Please avoid political jokes. )

{Edit: after writing that first draft, while dry firing,
I think I detect a tendency for me to move the barrel to the left as I squeeze trigger.
My initial impression is that it's being caused by a LOP that's slightly short.
Putting slightly larger grips on may solve that.
Those conversion grips to SB may be just the ticket.}

2) Observation: Of 36 rnds, one - a Sellier and Bellot .357 FMJ - was a FTF.
When it went "click", I lowered the barrel to 45*, considering it still could fire.

I waited ~ 30 sec, then unloaded all rnds.

After comparison with other spend shells, it was obvious that the FTF was clearly a light strike.
The indentation into the primer was ~ 1/2 to 3/4 normal.

Thinking back, I remembered that upon loading that cylinder,
one rnd (don't know if it was the same) had to be pushed in
against weak resistance (cylinder bores are still not totally clean;
still contain some crud from previous owner; see earlier post).

I reloaded the single FTF rnd.
It fired upon the second try.

All other shots - more than 20 - fired fine.

Tonight, I held the unloaded (triple checked) revolver perpendicular
to my field of vision (90* angle) in front of a bright light.
I could see the light through the space between the back of the cylinder
and the frame containing the firing pin
(which is, by the way, significantly wider than the space behind the cylinder in my 642).

As I dry fired and held the trigger at the end of the cycle,
the firing pin would stick into that space and remain there.

I saw nothing indicating a malfunctioning or broken pin.
Each time, the pin stuck into the space the same distance (as far as I could tell).

In Jim March's used revolver test, the cylinder has very minimal front/back and radial movement. (Next to none.)

Question: Given those observations, what could have caused that light strike?

Is it most likely caused by remaining cylinder fouling preventing rnd seating?
(Seems counterintuitive, but will take serious solvent after it tomorrow.)

Is this possibly a timing issue, or a problem with crud preventing smooth cylinder rotation?

Should this revolver be checked out by a smith?

Thnx.

Nem

 

[fiVe]

Nem:

I'm certainly no gunsmith and I might not fully understand the issue, but would the dime test provide any helpful info here?

 

[BillinNH]

Let's see your K frame grips

I found an old pic I pasted up of my model 19 wearing magnas, Pachmayr wraparounds, Hogue monogrips and the very unusual Bianchi Lightnings. The magnas are too skinny and hard for me, The Pachs are comfortable and give good recoil padding but shorten my reach to the trigger somewhat. The Hogues are comfortable except that they let the backstrap protrude (see second thumbnail) and the Bianchis, while very comfortable and secure feeling, look, well, kinda funny.

If you have a rubber grip on your K frame that wraps around the backstrap and has some fingergrooves, show me a pic and give your comments. I'd like to see/hear about anyone with 519 or 619 grips.

Thanks.

Bill

 

[Newkid]

Thank You ugaarguy. That info is very nice to know. I have had this for about 15-16 years or so and have enjoyed it alot. The Jeweled Trigger and hammer are a little sensitive for the new shooter and would not recommend any new shooter doing this to their gun. The pull is less then 10 ounzes and can be very useful for target practice. A lot less flinch with .357 loads. The Pachmeyer grips are perfect for this gun. I don't feel the normal kick that wood handles provide. It is a fun shooter, however am maybe thinking now that I know how many of these were made, I might just use for SD rather than a target pistol. Although it might be some time before I can go out and purchase another. It is a good size for CCW and will fit in my jacket inside pocket easily or by using the belt hoster at about 10 oclock or at 6 oclock depending on the coat or shirt. Thankx again and will be looking forward to reading more about these in the future.

 

[Tom Servo]

at both 12 and 25 yds,
my shots were predominantly (95%) left and slightly high.

Nem, if you're primarily an autoloader guy, your grip may be a bit too high on the frame. That'll make the gun point low, and you'll be compensating by adjusting your grip as you line up the sights. The bore should ride a bit high in your hand.

As far as hitting left, you may just have too much finger on the trigger.

 

[336A]

Hello all I have been following this thread for since day one. I just registered today and I am a K frame fan as well. Bought a brand new 10-14 in February and love it.

 

[tipoc]

Nematocyst,

Your questions deserve their own thread.

On the light strike. From what you say there is likely nothing wrong with the gun. It may have simply been a slightly harder than usual primer. That the load went off with the second hammer strike tends to indicate this along with the info that the other 35 went off as planned. Check to see that the strain screw (the screw that is located on the front of the grip strap) is not all the way out. You may want to turn it in a quarter turn. This will give you a harder hammer strike it will also make the da pull slightly harder as well but possibly not so hard as you will notice it much.

When the round did not go off you say you lowered the piece to 45 degrees, pointing at the floor. What I prefer to do (and a rule at the ranges I've been at) is keep the barrel pointed down range, this way if the round should go off (a hangfire) the gun is pointed in a safe direction. At 45 degrees a ricocheting round can go any number of places.

You don't say whether you were shooting da or sa.

tipoc

 

[Tom Servo]

We need a 19/66 club. We can't let the 686 and 642 guys have all the fun

 

[christcorp]

Can the 13/65 users join?????

 

[ugaarguy]

We need a 19/66 club. We can't let the 686 and 642 guys have all the fun

Can the 13/65 users join?????

This is the K Frame Club, as such all K Frame Smith & Wesson revolvers are welcome here. Your humble host currently owns a 5" pre-10 M&P, 2.5" 66, 6" K-22 Target Masterpiece, and a 3" 65. I think I need a 4" K next.

Welcome to all the new members, and thanks to all for your continued contributions to the thread.

 

[AStone]

tipoc, thanks for feedback.

i'll address each part here.

Your questions deserve their own thread.

Yeah, I agree. I thought about starting one.

But since so many K-frames are "used" now, I thought this could be a useful contribution to the K club.

On the light strike. From what you say there is likely nothing wrong with the gun. It may have simply been a slightly harder than usual primer. That the load went off with the second hammer strike tends to indicate this along with the info that the other 35 went off as planned.

Check.

It was just disconcerting that of 200 to 300 .38 and .357 rnds
that I've fired this year, and many more .38's before that,
the only FTF occurred with the "new" gun.

Check to see that the strain screw (the screw that is located on the front of the grip strap) is not all the way out. You may want to turn it in a quarter turn. This will give you a harder hammer strike it will also make the da pull slightly harder as well but possibly not so hard as you will notice it much.

Now this is interesting.

My "strain screw" is all the way "in". That is, it will not turn any further in a clockwise direction.
It will only go "out" (counterclockwise).

Advice? Where should it be set relative to "all the way in"?

When the round did not go off you say you lowered the piece to 45 degrees, pointing at the floor. What I prefer to do (and a rule at the ranges I've been at) is keep the barrel pointed down range, this way if the round should go off (a hangfire) the gun is pointed in a safe direction. At 45 degrees a ricocheting round can go any number of places.

Good points there.

Not a big deal here, but just for the record: I was at an outdoor range. My angle of pointing was probably greater than 45, more down range. My point was, I kept it pointing down range, pointing into the dirt rather than immediately fiddling with the gun.

Still, your points are valid.

You don't say whether you were shooting da or sa.

A little SA, mostly DA.

The FTF was during DA.

Thnx.

Nem

 

[Geronimo45]

Check to see that the strain screw (the screw that is located on the front of the grip strap) is not all the way out

So that's what it is!
Interesting. So... you can adjust your trigger pull without any professional gunsmith, just a screwdriver? Nice. Not likely to ever use it, but it's nice to have.

 

[ugaarguy]

Your questions deserve their own thread.

Yeah, I agree. I thought about starting one.

But since so many K-frames are "used" now, I thought this could be a useful contribution to the K club.

Nem, I agree. The K frames are poular, and widely available. My hope is for this thread to grow into a great centralized resource for these revolvers, following the lines of the 642 club.

I hope folks will continue to post all sorts of K frame questions and get answers here.

So that's what it is!
Interesting. So... you can adjust your trigger pull without any professional gunsmith, just a screwdriver? Nice. Not likely to ever use it, but it's nice to have.

Yep, you can tweak it that way. A drop in hammer spring from Wolff is another way to adjust the pull without doing anything to the internals that can't be reversed.

 

[AStone]

My hope is for this thread to grow into a great centralized resource for these revolvers, following the lines of the 642 club.

I hope folks will continue to post all sorts of K frame questions and get answers here.

Thanks for that clarification, Uga.

I was sort of taking a chance posting my specific questions, but I sorta thought you had that sort of model in mind for the K-club. (I guess we could just call it the "the Klub" for short. )

I've become a real fan of "club" threads where all sorts of issues - from images to rnds to shooting tips to repair issues - are discussed about a particular type of gun or even a particular model. I've found that there's a real community spirit that emerges among participants of such threads that's qualitatively different from other threads. They develop a friendly, kick-your-shoes-off-and-hang-out "club house" feeling after a while.

 

[AStone]

fiVe, I tried out your "dime test", or at least a modified version of it.

I pushed the cylinder latch forward then pulled and held the trigger. I placed a dime flat against the back plate and right next to the extended firing pin. The tip of the pin is just shy of the edge of the dime. How does yours compare?

With cylinder latch forward, I can't pull the trigger on either my 642 or my 65. So, I just pulled and held the trigger on both (double checked for unloaded status first, of course), and inserted the dime into the slot against the back plate.

The 65's pin extends noticeably further than the 642 pin. The 65 is just shy of the edge of the dime; the 642 pin is just further than half way to the edge. But I've never had a FTF with the 642.

Interesting exercise.

Nem, if you're primarily an autoloader guy, your grip may be a bit too high on the frame. That'll make the gun point low, and you'll be compensating by adjusting your grip as you line up the sights. The bore should ride a bit high in your hand.

Eric, I'm not currently an auto-loader shooter, though I have been in the past. Now switching over to all revolvers. I may be carry through some bad habits. I'll take this into consideration in dry fire practice and next time I'm at the range ... soon as I get the new grips.

As far as hitting left, you may just have too much finger on the trigger.

That's currently my working hypothesis. This K-frame is smaller than the 686 (L-frame) I just sold, so shorter LOP. I'll be putting the SB grips on the 65 - as soon as Hogue gets them out to me - and they have more material on the back strap. I'll see how that affects my trigger pull.

Nem

 

[fiVe]

With cylinder latch forward, I can't pull the trigger on either my 642...

Most curious. With the cylinder open (you know, ready for loading), I can push the cylinder latch forward which then allows me to pull the trigger. I wonder why it is different for you?

 

[aka108]

Bought a new K-22 5 screw 6' bbl in 1950. Think it cost 60 bucks which was expensive a hell back then. Never any problems and it gets out to the range about once a month for 100 rds. Love the old craftsmanship from that time. All parts fit so close you can't feel the joins and barely see them.

 

[AStone]

With the cylinder open (you know, ready for loading), I can push the cylinder latch forward which then allows me to pull the trigger. I wonder why it is different for you?

Ooooooh. Now I get it. I was misinterpreting the directions.

Still, it's a little different for me. For me, I have to pull back on the cylinder release (once the cylinder is open) instead of push forward to be able to fire. Doesn't change the distance the pin sticks out though, at least on the 65.

 

[Geronimo45]

Yep, you can tweak it that way. A drop in hammer spring from Wolff is another way to adjust the pull without doing anything to the internals that can't be reversed.

Thanks for the info! Liking this gun more every day.

 

[glassman]

I'm In

Here's my contribution. Went into the store intending to buy a 686 but then saw this. I love the look and craftsmanship that went into it. Sweet shooter.

 

[D-Man]

^ Nice......here's a picture of my 19-4 that I bought on Friday:

 

[tipoc]

D-Man,
Looks like aftermarket sights fore and aft.

To others on the strain screw. The purpose of that screw is to adjust the tension on the mainspring. That spring, over decades can become a bit tired, so the screw is there to ensure that there can always be a strong enough hammer blow to ignite the primer. It is sorta a side effect that is can also lighten the trigger pull. The best and most secure way to do the latter is to slick up the internals some IMHO. Though the strain screw does do that well a bit.

tipoc

 

[ugaarguy]

Looks like aftermarket sights fore and aft.

Yep, looks like the S&W micro-click rear was replaced with a Millett unit. The front looks stock with orange paint added on the ramp below the factory orange insert.