The "officer 4473 dilema"

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Well put nietzsche.

I can see how certain cops who patrol certain colorful urban neighborhoods get that sort of an attitude, but I dont think there is an excuse for the rest of them.
 
From everything I've seen, being a cop is a tough job.

When cops are at their best, they are the unbiased enforcers of our societies laws; the guardians of our lives, our property, and our civil rights; and the rope that keeps our society from dropping over the cliff into Anarchy.

When they are at their worst, they are self-serving and corrupt. Interested in protecting only the interests of the well-to-do and the influencial who can, in turn, benefit them. These are the kinds of cops who sell dope out of their squad cars, shake down motorists or whatever.

There are bad cops out there. Hell, there are bad DEPARTMENTS of cops out there. (Read "Serpico" sometime.) But I wouldn't go so far as to say that the MAJORITY of cops are corrupt. Quite the opposite in fact. I think the majority of cops are decent and hard working. A little crazy maybe...and maybe too inclined to think of themselves as being a Hero or getting an Award of Valour from the city or something...but, hey, what's wrong with that, eh? Most of the cops I've met started out just wanting to help people...then they see how screwed up the system is and get cynical. "Frustrated idealist" ought to be a clinical diagnosis in mental health. I'd have handed out a hundred diagnoses of FI to cops (yes...I've actually had police officers in counseling sessions...and you aren't any less of a man for going,either you stubborn :cuss: ), firemen, soldiers, and social workers.

As long as the public sees the police as being more like "the good cops" and not like "the bad guys", then you'll see basically what we have now society-wise. If that ever changes anytime soon, then we'll find out what a highly armed population does when faced by rampant illegality and inequality of treatment on the part of it's police force. A situation that has never happened before in history, either...that I'm aware of. If this was Russia under Communism, then I could make a prediction...but a country with 120 million armed citizens? I'm not sure that has ever happened before. Makes us unique.

But then again, being American, we ought to be use to being unique. Can I get a "Hell Yeah" for America? :)


P.S. Good cop or bad...you can count on the police to provide one important service. Finders of Quality Donuts. If you see a group of police cars at a pastry, stop and buy some donuts. I thought it was a stereotype for many years, but I've tested this now in three states, and across ten years of time. These jokers can FIND some good pastries. I'd vote to keep the police for this reason alone. :)
 
Art Eatman said:
What I'm saying is that the odds are more likely for the average cop than for the average Joe or Joanie SixPack.
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This is almost identical to the argument that is often used to explain why cops should be able to carry handguns and the rest of us should not.

Since when did the low probability of needing a right become a rationale for restricting it? Either privacy is a right, or it is not a right. If it's a right, then the fact that someone has a low probability of NEEDING it is TOTALLY irrelevant. In fact, even if it can be shown that they don't need it at all, that is still irrelevant because rights are not based on need.

On the other hand, if it's NOT a right--if it is a privilege--then it is the government's right to assign that privilege to whom it wills.

Every free man should detest the idea of RIGHTS being handed out selectively by the government as if they were PRIVILEGES.

It's not that I begrudge the police the right to privacy--it's just that it's MY right too and it's not the government's place to allow them to exercise it while preventing me from doing the same.

It's not that I want to punish the police by taking this right from them, Control Group, it's that I want them to fight WITH me so that everyone can exercise this right equally. They have no motivation to do so now.
 
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

We all bleed the same color and we all have the same right to privacy, self defense and property. I shouldnt have to join the blue shirt gang just to be treated as more than a second class citizen.
 
Theres a lot of really tough jobs out there. If i have to put MY address on that form, so does everyone else.
 
As a correctional officer in a maximum security state institution, I deal with more felons than any cop. Yes, lots of them get pissed off at me for doing my job. Some of the inmates whom I've pissed off are on the streets right now. I've seen former inmates at the grocery store, mall, and many other places where I've been alone and with my family. Outside the walls I'm just a normal citizen with no right to carry, no powers of arrest, and no special privileges. I have to put my real address on my license. Cops are no more special than me or anybody else, and they shouldn't have any more special rights or privileges than me or anybody else.
 
centac, that attitude that you're better than us is EXACTLY why some of us despise a lot of cops. You are not better, and you have apparently forgot who you work for. You're supposed to work for us. Instead, you just go on trashing liberty in your wake.
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Oh, please.

Can't someone post something JUST ONCE, without whining about LEO's, and the supposed privileges we have?

For your information, before you start flaming away, you CAN request and receive a number of steps that can be taken to ensure your privacy:

1. Unlisted/unpublished numbers.
2. Removal of your address from all directories.
3. Protection of your address.

All it takes is a bit of legwork, and you too can vanish.

So, some of you have taken steps to put away some criminals. Good on ya, wish there were more people like you.

But please--do NOT sit there and tell me how wrong I am because I don't want some idiot I gave a ticket to looking up my address!! :banghead:

And for those of you who are still predisposed to whining about cops, here's a suggestion:

LEAVE US ALONE!!

Since we're obviously JBT's, the next time you hear something go bump in the night, find a burglar in your house, have a purse snatched or a car vandalized, or have someone bent on committing a crime of violence, TAKE CARE OF IT YOURSELF!!! Since you hate me and those like me so much, don't bother me. Just leave me alone, will ya?

:(
 
For your information, before you start flaming away, you CAN request and receive a number of steps that can be taken to ensure your privacy:
Click to expand...

So please explain why police cannot take these same steps?
 
Since we're obviously JBT's, the next time you hear something go bump in the night, find a burglar in your house, have a purse snatched or a car vandalized, or have someone bent on committing a crime of violence, TAKE CARE OF IT YOURSELF!!!
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Uhhhhhh.... I'd bet that that is the plan of about 99% of the folks here! I know that it is my plan.
Since you hate me and those like me so much, don't bother me. Just leave me alone, will ya?
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Sounds like a plan to me - problem is the ma and pa gubmint just don't allow that. :banghead:

Seriously though...

The police are a very necessary part of any society. There's gotta be rules to hold it together and someone's gotta enforce 'em. That someone is the police.

Unfortunately a lot of stuff that is dangerous, frustrating or otherwise unpleasant goes with the job. Face it no one likes an enforcer. That's life. Deal with it or don't be a police officer.

In my experiences with the police in 53 years all but one have been good guys who were friendly and acted professionally. When I was much younger more than one sent me on my way when he probably should have run me in. Hell - at 19 I had an auto accident in LA. The officer gave me $20 bucks out of his own pocket for a bus ride back to San Bernardino and called a wrecker and made sure my car was towed all the way back too. He should have given me a ticket for being stupid. I sent the LA police chief a very complimentary letter about that gentleman.

That said my last official interaction with the police was well over 10 years ago. Since then I've heard too many bad stories about them. Maybe it's only the bad stuff that gets related. In addition the militarization of the police really, really bothers me as well as the loss of 4th Amendment rights in the name of officer safety.

I had an unofficial interaction with a police officer where I work. The police were using out factory as a place to train in a workplace hostage scenario. I was involved. While in the cafeteria waiting for the exercise to start I got into a conversation with one of the swat guys. IMO he was an arrogant, supercilious a'hole. If he was half as good as he thought he was supeman would quake in his boots in this guy's presence. The results of the exercise pretty much validated my opinion of him.

I figure where there's smoke there's fire.

I hope my negative attitude about the police of today is wrong.

I fear though that I am not.

ASIDE: I believe that the positive experiences I've had with the police are because I never BS 'em, always tell 'em the 100% truth and treat the individual with the respect due his office and his actions. Or maybe I've just been lucky.
 
JohnKSa:


Originally Posted by Art Eatman
What I'm saying is that the odds are more likely for the average cop than for the average Joe or Joanie SixPack.


"This is almost identical to the argument that is often used to explain why cops should be able to carry handguns and the rest of us should not."

Not at all, John. Nowhere did I ever say you and I should not have the same right. I just said that I can understand the point of view of those who set up that deal, and the point of view of the cops who benefit. And, I have no objection.

If that sort of effort at anonymity were important to me, I'd lobby the legislature to include me. I'm not interested in taking away somebody else's right, regardless of occupation.

I guess I'm seeing a molehill where others are seeing mountains. I put out energy and money and time on issues that have negative impacts on me--and this ain't one of them.

Art
 
Since we're obviously JBT's, the next time you hear something go bump in the night, find a burglar in your house, have a purse snatched or a car vandalized, or have someone bent on committing a crime of violence, TAKE CARE OF IT YOURSELF!!! Since you hate me and those like me so much, don't bother me. Just leave me alone, will ya?
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But isnt this the world we already live in?

If someone snatches my purse er I mean TV, are the cops going to retreive it for me? No, the best hope I have is to find out who did it myself and track them down and THEN call the police to have them do the arrest. I could do the arrest myself except that the police would then arrest me.

If someone breaks into my house, I will have to fend for myself. If I relied on the cops, it would take a miracle for them to arrive in time to save me. In many areas, you will not even get someone to talk to if you dial 911. Woooo 15 minute callbacks. Lol bleeding to death.

If you dial 1911, you live- if you dial 911, you die. You would think something like this would be a truism by now considering how many people have been killed waiting on the cops.

I live my life like I preach it. I keep an AK47 closer to my bed than I keep a phone. It would take me half a second to find a gun and probably 10-15 minutes to find my cell phone. When something goes bump in the night, it is the man of the house's responsibility to investigate it. You need to seriously consider growing a pair if your first instinct is to call the cops.
 
Ever wonder why cops…

Do you ever wonder why so many cops are becoming so jaded towards the public?

Do you ever wonder why so many of the good cops, those who do truly care about you and yours, those who do truly care about your safety and your ability to protect your own hide, ever wonder why those cops are leaving the service and what you have left are the Para-Military JBT’s everyone here so fears?

Do you ever wonder why cops more or less tune out 99% of the public and put up that blue wall of silence?

http://sigforum.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/230601935/m/306107482

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=141299

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=141454

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=141491

These are just the most recent ones which are raging as we speak, if I had the energy I could probably crash the Forums server with the shear volume of threads where the public attacks every action of every cop simply because we are cops. Lumping all cops into the category of the worst bloodhounds the BATF can offer up.

As a cop I deal with all that is wrong with society, it’s my job and I accept that. But what is becoming more disturbing to me is the shear number of John Q. Publics who feel they are on some type of crusade to drag down every cop they meet.

I realize this is the internet and that folks say and post stuff here they would never in a million years say to a persons face, for fear of getting punched on the nose, but damn…

Cops are becoming so jaded because they deal with the lowest common denominators society has to offer up, the morally bankrupt and the gracefully stupid.

Now we have to hear it from the public, those law abiding folks who just have it in their minds that I am a uniformed JBT, corrupt @SS kisser who is just salivating and chomping at the bit to jack you up for some obscure law.

This type of behavior day in and day out makes even the strongest heart weary and speaking from experience, more and more of the “Andy Griffith” style cops are waking up each and everyday asking themselves why the hell do I keep on doing this job for a public that is growing more and more ungrateful each and everyday.

Why do I keep on doing this job for a paycheck that won’t even pay my rent, car payment and insurance on both, leaving me with red ink in the check book at the end of each month?

Why the hell do I stay?

We are leaving your service and what you are being left with are the JBT’s who thrive on the Us. Vs Them.

Enjoy what you are slowly creating my friends, in the end you need to be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

Signed,
One Weary “Andy Griffith” Cop


:(
 
Well, Nietz,

If you are who you say you are, maybe you could illuminate us on the psychologist's world. Why don't regale us with some stories of your profession? I'm sure we'd all get a giggle out of the illegal drug use, sexual battery and rape, frequently of children, and high suicide rates.

Cops take a hit for policing ourselves, but we're rank amateurs compared to you guys. No one evaluates your "success" rate but your own profession. Doesn't matter that data says everything you claim to do is a failure. You can keep declaring sexual predators and murderers "cured," and when they continue to commit their crimes, you just shrug and send another bill.

It must be such a feeling of power for you, to sit in judgment of a young cop, who ran towards the screams, and ended up using deadly force. If he feels good about his actions, you can tell him he's not a hero, and that he has serious problems. Courage and Duty are such foreign concepts in your little world and you're threatened by them.

You can vicariously lash out at the Father that left you, or the Mother that made you wear dresses, or the Jr. High School counselor who sodomized you. And get paid for it! You definitely picked the right profession....
 
If people are unwilling to fend for themselves, there is only so much that a limited number of government officials can do for them, no matter how well-intentioned or hardworking they may be.

My only modes of dealing with the police so far have been:
-revenue collection
-reporting a property crime and being told to bugger off (NYC)
-reporting armed robbery (when I was in JHS in NYC) and being told that there was nothing they could do since I didnt know who the other teenagers were who took my wallet

What sort of attitude do you think this will foster towards the police? I think my experiences are fairly normal for a law abiding citizen.
 
If you cant handle the job, you need to find a new one.
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Good advice!

I did just that!

And I suggest it to my friends often. The good guys will continue to leave the profession, and soon, the attitudes seen here will reflect the truth. You will get exactly the law enforcement you deserve. The tin hat crowd will look like geniuses.

And I, and guys like me, will continue to take care of ourselves and our families. Unlike the tough talking, cowardly little punks, who show up on these boards.

Have a nice day, and drive carefully now, Sir! :)
 
So you were in it for the money, not to serve the public

:neener: right back atcha
 
The tin hat crowd will look like geniuses.
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*yawn*

At least when compared to the alternative we ARE geniuses. Of course that might have something to do with the ability to see things as they are and not feel the need to resort to silly little labels in place of legitimate defense and credibility. What do you think, or do you?
 
Oh this is priceless to me from an entertainment standpoint. Vernal who claims to have been a cop wants to debate the issue of leaving LE, and posts this:

Originally posted by Vernal at 1530 4 June 05:
I guess it is easier to leave, than to hold the bad cops accountable.
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Then later as to why he allegedly left LE:
Originally posted by Vernal at 1550 4 June 05:
The first reason was money, the second, cops like you that have a fetish with searching.
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Then this:
Originally posted by Vernal at 1607 4 June 05:
The other reason I spoke of, was the growing numbers of officers, who wanted to serve the public by keeping them safe from empy coffee cans.
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Vernal, your hypocrisy is hilarious. First you deride Elmer for not sticking around to hold bad cops accountable, then you claim it was bad cops that allegedly caused you to leave LE.

"Paging Mr. Vernal . . . Paging Mr. Vernal . . . you have a call from The Kettle on the white courtesy phone."
 
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