Things that make you Hmmmmm

[scout26]

Not that this is happening:

You work with a lady who is single. Her ex-husband or recent boyfreind is being a butthead. She's aready got the court order of protection against him. She's afraid and wants you to loan her a gun to defend herself at home. (No CCW in this state.) What would you do ???

Here are the caveats:
1. In order to posses, purchase, touch (or even look at) a firearm in this state you must have a FOID card. Takes 30 days (snicker, really closer to 90+) to get one, if you can (pretty much the same questions as on the 4473 and they do a background check).
2. She doesn't have a FOID card.
3. If you give her a gun you will have commited either a Class A misdemeanor or a Class 1 Felony depending on the DA. (I won't even ask if you would buy a gun for her. MAJOR NO-NO.)
4. Of course you teach her about The Four Rules. But, you can't take her to a range and have her try out guns (No FOID, No shooting at a public range or even your club.)
5. Kids may or may not be in the home.

Do you:

1. Give her the gun now and hope that she doesn't have to use. (if she does have to use it to defend herself, she has an affirmative defense. You however, are screwed once they trace the gun in question back to you. AND they will.)
2. Help her fill out the FOID form, have her get some OC and tell her that when she gets it you'll take her out to the range and then shopping.

Just a hypothetical.......

 

[XLMiguel]

#2.

Depending on circumstances, might also visit said butthead with several large friends and explain that his continued good health has a whole lot to do with said lady's good health and peace of mind. Might consider explaining this to him while standing on his chest if he has ADD.

 

[bogie]

Get her foided, and make sure she has a cell phone. And good situational awareness.

 

[beerslurpy]

Tell her to flee the state and then get a gun. By the time he catches up, she will probably be a pretty good shot. This also takes care of teh FOID sillyness.

She could probably get a CCW in Florida in the time it takes to get a FOID in IL. Considering how many states give us reciprocity, its almost national conealed carry.

 

[R.H. Lee]

In order to posses, purchase, touch (or even look at) a firearm in this state you must have a FOID card. Takes 30 days (snicker, really closer to 90+) to get one, if you can (pretty much the same questions as on the 4473 and they do a background check).

Holy crap! And people talk smack about California. What if your part time residence is at her place. You rent a room in her house where you keep clothes and some other stuff, including a firearm.

 

[VARifleman]

Move to NC, get their permit and the FL permit and you're covered in these states:

 

[BryanP]

Even if the FOID card was not an issue I would never loan her a gun in this situation. I would sell her one for $1, complete with bill of sale, with the understanding that she would sell it back for the same cost when she was able to buy her own.

In the described situation I could only recommend option 2.

 

[Moondoggie]

Besides the FOID thingee, maybe get her to beef-up her home security; strengthen doors (have the locks changed????), alarm system with communication to a manned center in the meantime. Maybe have a chat with some neighbors to be on the lookout???

If there ARE kids in her custody, and you think she could summon the gumption if the situation warranted in her home, perhaps pepper spray and a Louisville Slugger could be useful. I'm a proponent of household ammonia applied to the upper chest area of somebody I'm very upset with, but never in the face. Well, almost never.

Of course, the pepper spray could accompany her in her travels out and about.

If the local constabulary is small enough and/or you think they might even be a little bit proactive, she could go in and talk with them about her concerns and ask for a little extra attention. Couldn't hurt!

 

[Flyboy]

#1. To hell with the law. There's something infinitely more important here: a human life (and, given that you posted this, I presume that you have at least some sort of concern for her).

I've been in a spot vaguely like this. No FOID requirements here, but she is underage, and the gun would have had my name on it. I asked her, point blank, if there was any reason she might fear for her safety. I was prepared to offer her my carry piece--on the spot--if she even hesitated in saying "no."

As a practical matter, it wouldn't be found out unless she had to use it. A techincal violation of the law, absolutely, but one that must be made. I, for one, wouldn't be able to live with myself if a friend was hurt or killed because I was afraid of a technical violation. Some things are far more important than the Law of Man.

(Of course, I'd help her complete the paperwork so it would be legal in due (or undue) time, but that doesn't help now. Do the right thing now, and worry about the law when you can.)

 

[Preacherman]

Been there, done that... My preferred solution (which has worked three times so far - and if you look at my username, you'll know why this has happened to me before! ):

1. Move lady (and children, if necessary) in with a friend or three. Not her friends - MY friends, who tend to be large, well-armed, and highly irritated with men who threaten women. Here in the Redneck South, there really are a large number of gentlemen like that. Their wives also like to help - in fact, if their husbands didn't help, they'd be in serious trouble!

2. Ask local police to have a polite, friendly conversation with the man in question. Nothing nasty, you understand - just mentioning that any attempt by him to find his wife and/or children over the next few weeks would be very ill-advised, due to the presence of several large, hairy gentlemen with firearms, who would regard his presence as an opportunity for some unexpected (but welcome) target practice.

3. Arrange training and CCW ASAP for the lady in question. Also get her a shotgun (20ga is fine) and teach her how to use it. Ensure that when she does return home, she has both a trustworthy handgun and a shotgun, and is good enough with both of them to be secure in her person and home.

4. After (3) above, if errant husband ignores advice and tries to bash his way into the house, sit back and enjoy the fun and games. Two of them have tried it so far: neither succeeded. One wet his pants and fled at the sight of his wife with a Remington 870 Youth Model 20ga., the other didn't wet his pants and got shot in the leg. Poor aim on her part...

 

[beerslurpy]

Good call preacher. If you have room to fit her in your house, definitely volunteer her to stay with you until she can get some better self defense arrangement. Tell her not to say where she is staying so he cant harass you.

 

[bogie]

Preach, in Illinois if she tries that, she's going to jail.

 

[Standing Wolf]

She needs to visit http://www.yellowtruck.com some time yesterday.

 

[Preacherman]

Bogie, I don't see why Illinois should be difficult? You can use the period of her stay with friends to get her FOID organized, and train her. You may not be able to get a CCW permit, agreed, so that part would be out: but for her to have a shotgun at home is quite feasible. Also, if he subsequently attacks her (while under the already-obtained restraining order), and she shoots him, I doubt very much that there would be long-term legal hassles for her - or is Illinois even more whacko than I'd thought?

(Obviously, I except Chicago from the whackiness index... )

 

[standingbear]

get her to move...or find a safe place for her to stay.is there a shelter there for battered women??perhaps they might have some other ideas as well.


as far as that foid crapola.......if the guy shows up,someone could always tell him hey,come back in 90 days when I can legally protect myself.

 

[dev_null]

#2. And in addition to the OC:

- one of those earsplitting personal sirens that goes on a keychain;
- a dog;
- an ASP (no, not a snake) and some training.

- 0 -

 

[mfree]

Give her pepper spray and a very, very sharp machete.

 

[Macgyver]

Actually the Asp (snake version) might not be such an outlandish idea. I know of one girl who had a trained snake (don't know what type however but NOT a harmless one) that was essentially a living bracelet. God help the person who tried to manhandle her....

 

[Pilgrim]

She needs to move, to a place her 'friends' don't know about. You would be surprised how many of your best 'friends' will rat you out if given a chance.

Before she gets a gun, she needs intensive training. One day at the range popping away at paper won't cut it. She needs to become fully proficient with regards to marksmanship, weapons handling, and mindset. Mindset is the most important. If you think after three or five days of training she still doesn't have the mindset, you are just introducing one more dangerous factor into her problem if you loan her a gun.

If you are going to be her instructor, I suggest strongly you do it from a lesson plan that you can give to her at the end of the training. It should be very clear from your lesson plan that you covered her state's laws concerning use of deadly force in self defense. It wouldn't hurt to have her sign your file copy of the lesson plan acknowledging she received the training and has a copy of the lesson plan.

Pilgrim

 

[GoRon]

The indoor ranges I frequent allow a person without a FOID to go on the range and shoot with someone that has one.

They cannot rent a gun or buy ammo.

Get her the FOID and start training her now. The above posts have some good suggestions.

I wouldn't arm her until she gets legal in Illinios.

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Why not invite her to stay at your place, or offer to stay over at hers? (On the couch maybe if you're not that friendly).

 

[TMM]

#2.

immediately work on getting a FOID(whatever that is- heh) and in the meantime, OC spray, a big machete, baseball bat, and other such things should do in the time being.

like mentioned earlier, she can't just know how to use the gun- she's got to have the mindset.

~TMM

 

[JohnKSa]

If she's really worried and the threat is real then she should move. Even if she could simply buy a gun, become an expert shot and safe gun handler overnight. Even if she could get a carry permit and carry it everywhere. Even if she becomes a tactical genius and a master of the color code, she still has to sleep, and a house can still be set on fire. Kids still go to school, and people still work in places that don't allow carry.

What I'm trying to say is that if the guy wants her or the kids, he can get her even if she has a gun.

If the threat is real and serious then she needs to get away from it now. If the guy follows her to another state then it should be to a state where she can do all of the above and maybe by the time he catches up she'll be ready for him.

Are you sure she's not just seeing you as a sympathetic ear and taking the chance to vent? Things can get pretty hairy when a woman tells a man her problems, merely wanting sympathy, and the man decides she's asking for his help and that it's time to call in the cavalry.

 

[sm]

BTDT as well...

Last time I told the person to RUN - do not walk, and get her and the baby out of town.
The father of child was a bad dude , with bad associates, running dope and such. Associates were keeping tabs on the gal.

I sought some advice from a certain Tilecrawler THR member...

I told her to forget about guns, she was that scared and so unfamilar with guns.

She went to her parents, she was followed by associates. Her parents 'just happen to have' some service work done. *ahem* While associates kept watch on her car, she left with the baby in the "service vehicle" .

Judge was sympathetic with this situation, being as she was giving testimony...

So this gal has a new place , leased not in her name. She has a different car, Mom was going to buy another anyway, she took daughters and the daughter has a different car with the tags and such under another relative's name.

She disappeared, her testimony seems to have surfaced quite a bit though.

Her last name is now different too...

Very interesting for a bit where I used to live...this was a neighbor of mine at the time...

 

[Don Gwinn]

She definitely needs to get out. It's the best of bad options. If she doesn't trust her friends, she can move into a woman's shelter in another city. There's the Sojourn Center in Springfield, for instance.

Flyboy, you have the right to flout the law yourself if you're willing to take the consequences, but you do NOT have the right to advise a distraught person who doesn't understand gun laws to flout the law. She WILL go to jail with you.

Has she applied for her FOID yet? It'll take weeks after she applies, no sense putting it off. I don't know where you are, but the NRA is doing Refuse to Be a Victim in Edwardsville, Godfrey and Alton next month.

BTW, Dev Null, the ASP is at least arguably illegal to possess in Illinois. There's language that forbids a "blackjack, bludgeon" and a few other names for whacking implements, but doesn't specifically say "baton" or "stick." It sounds crazy, but if they decided to call your ASP a "bludgeon" you'd be in some trouble. I believe it's a misdemeanor, though.