Those of you that live in states with training requirements for a CCW...

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RyanM

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Just a few questions:

What state are you in?

Is the availability of the training reasonable (days and times available, class sizes, etc.)?

How often are people who attempt to sign up for the training turned down for whatever reason?

How much does the training cost?

How long does the training take to complete?

Is there a written test?

If so, how difficult is it? Is the test graded immediately and handed back so the student knows how they did, why each answer was correct or incorrect, and personally verify that the correct answer was the same for all students?

Is there a practical test?

If so, how difficult is it? Are the criteria for passing very clearly defined, and does the student have the opportunity to see their target so they can personally verify their passing/failing?

Are any statistics available on people who attempt to take the training and are turned down, or attempt to complete the training and fail, especially denial/failure percentages by race?

I think you can all see where I'm going with this. A license is not "shall issue" if the test-givers have any personal discretion whatsoever over who can take the training, and who passes it. A lot of people, me included, are of the opinion that some states' training requirements (not to mention licensing fees in many cases!) are little more than a literacy test, intended solely to prevent certain groups of people from legally carrying concealed. How do the facts stack up against this belief?
 
I get where you're coming from. However, I'm from Minnesota and I don't feel that the requirements (for Minnesota) prevent anyone who wants one from getting a permit. Classes are widely available and on numerous days and times. People should be able to find a time to attend that meets their schedules. The class costs $150 which is pretty expensive but should be doable for almost anyone. If you don't have your own equipment you can rent for a reasonable price. There is no written test, just a lecture type class (mine was I think 4 hours) and a brief proficiency test. The test is 50 rounds and you only need 75% to pass. From what I've heard as long as you show basic firearm knowledge and safety you'll pass even if you don't make the 75% but that probably depends on the instructor. All in all, I feel that in Minnesota anyone who has basic gun safety and a clean record can get a permit. However I don't really think we should be required to buy permits when it is our right to bear arms but that's a whole other topic.
 
State Florida
Training easy gunshows gun shops,etc
Turn downs virtually never
Cost $35 to 50 is the norm
Time about 2 hours
Written test yes but not graded to pass or fail
Test simply graded and handed back.
No live firing or range req. in Fl
No idea about stats,etc.

All this info from my son.Having military DD214 I was not reguired to take test per FL law.
 
I'm an NRA-certified instructor in Colorado, whose CCW law requires "evidence of safety training."

Frankly, I'm whole-heartedly in favor of Vermont- and Alaska-style carry: the right of the people to keep and bear arms, after all, shall not be infringed.

Colorado's loose training requirement and $75 to $200 courses, which take anywhere between three hours and two days, are an improvement upon some states', but they're still infringements, and to call them aught else would be dishonest.

I've personally never turned away a student or heard of anyone else doing so. As I've taught both the NRA First Steps course and an independently devised concealed carry course, there's been no written test, nor have I ever flunked a student, though some have needed more time, effort, and safety reminders than others. I pitched safety long and hard, complete with plenty of real world examples, and encouraged students who weren't very accurate to become so before actually carrying. I've done my tip-top best to stress such notions as responsibility, making moral decisions before starting to pack iron, thinking in advance of consequences, et cetera: all good stuff, to be sure, but none of that should ever be government-mandated.

The training requirement and local county fees, ($153 where I live,) do, indeed, amount to old time literacy tests and poll taxes; the alternative in Colorado, sad to say, is to commit a felony. Unlike the national presidential election thus far, I'm afraid we're looking at a lesser of two evils situation.
 
Texas

Classes everywhere, heck I even had a one on one class to get my renewal

I've not really heard of anyone turned down for the class, only for the license for the regular reasons (felon, mental)

Classes run from $50 - $100 and take a few hours. The license is $140. for 4 years, $70 for renewal. They have indigent exceptions for the license cost

There is a written test and it is not difficult if you paid attention to the instructor at all. The usually focus (VERY HEAVILY) on the questions that will be on the test.

There is a practical test with variation of ranges and shooting (slow and rapid). Perfect score is 250. I'm not sure what barely passing is since I never score less than 250. I've never seen anyone fail the shooting portion.

You count your own target score. If it looks like it might be close the instructor will check it.

In Texas, the instructors are private guys (usually owners of gun stores or ranges) that have taken the instructors certification and are teaching the course on their own. They don't have any specific agenda for denying anyone and would rather pass as many as possible so they can sell them cool CCW gear. I've always had a good time in the classes. I like them to focus on the legal aspect of it all since not enough people understand the laws they are carrying under.
 
In order:

Arizona.

Yes. They are mostly held on weekend days. IIRC there were about 15 people in my own class.

No data available.

$70-$90. Classes are privately administered. The fee to the DPS is $65. If your paperwork is in order and your background check comes up clean they must give you the permit.

One eight-hour day. It used to be 16 hours (two days), but that was before my time.

Yes, there is a written test. I think it was 30 questions.

I did not find it very difficult, as the questions were covered in the instruction. The tests were passed to the next student to "grade" and I got to see my results quickly.

If by practical test you mean live fire, yes, there was one.

IIRC, we shot five rounds each at five and ten yards, at the large B27 silhouette target. There was a time limit (very generous, at least for experienced shooters), and we only had to keep the grouping on the black part (also very generous, if you're familiar with this large target). If the handgun being used was a double-action-first-shot autoloader, the first shot had to be fired DA. If a DA revolver, all rounds had to be fired DA. The instructor would come down the line and verify all of this.

No data available.

In addition, the required fingerprinting was done at the class, put onto a fingerprint card which you send in to the DPS, along with the application (also provided).
 
Does it even matter? Until someone can produce some documentation showing me that people in states with no licensing or no training requirements have more ccw problems than those with training requirements I don't see any reason to argue about the fairness of the testing requirements. If it doesn't fix a problem there is no reason to even discuss it.
 
Arizona, the class was 16 hours over two days.
Cost was $75.
Written exam that was 10 questions and you had to get 90 percent. Graded at time of test. (They retested those who failed the first try immediately.) Thought the questions were really dumb, but still out of a class of 12 two had to retake the test.
Practical test was five shots inside the center two rings of an IDPA-style target. When I left there were two people doing the practical test for the third time. I guess they stayed until they passed.
The first time I signed up at one place I mentioned I am an NRA certified instructor in four handgun disciplines and they kicked me out of the class. In Arizona each instructor makes up his own curriculum and they were afraid I would steal their curriculum and go into competition with them. That also means there is a great deal of variation in what you get for training between one instructor and the next.
It took six months to find another class that I could attend. It's either five nights, a whole weekend or two Saturdays in a row around here. I worked 3-11 Tuesday through Saturday so I ended up taking time off to attend a class on a weekend.
You have to supply your own gun, but it does not have to be the one you're going to carry - just a handgun.
One thing I like about the Arizona permit is it is a "concealed weapons permit" so you can carry other weapons besides a gun concealed. Without the license you can't carry a sheath knife in a boot, but with it you're OK.

In Idaho it is by the county. In Ada County (Boise) they required eight hours of training and range time and cost $75. I taught those classes when there. In Owyhee County, where I lived, there was no training or testing and the fee was $12. I liked Owyhee County. Has a population of 10,000 and sheriff told me he had issued 3,000 permits. He told me he "figured the rest of the people in the county carried concealed, but just didn't bother with the permit."
Even better in Idaho you can carry concealed if you are en route to hunting or fishing. A fishing pole and tackle box in your truck were a poor man's CHL.

And people wonder why the crime rate is so low in Idaho - at least 30 percent of the population is armed! Odds aren't too good for a convenience store robber.

The Owyhee County sheriff also told me he did not want to require training because it implies that everyone who has the license has been properly trained. If someone were to break the law after taking the training it would be possible for them to sue the department for liability for poor or inaccurate training. A position I'd like to see every state take. I admit some people need training, but an NRA basic handgun course would serve them much better than the training I had to sit through in Arizona.
 
A lot of people, me included, are of the opinion that some states' training requirements (not to mention licensing fees in many cases!) are little more than a literacy test, intended solely to prevent certain groups of people from legally carrying concealed. How do the facts stack up against this belief?
Click to expand...

So you and "a lot of people" believe that training requirements are a conspiracy intended solely to prevent certain groups of people from legally carrying concealed weapons even if they pass the course and that CWP instructors are in on this conspiracy?

Which of those certain groups of people do you and those great many other people have in mind? And is it all CWP instructors who are engaged in the conspiracy or only some of them? I've never heard of this conspiracy before. The conspirators must know how to keep a secret.

Meanwhile, back in the real world ....

In every state I know, most CWP instructors for civilians are individuals who put themselves at risk to help other people meet the training requirement for permits in that state. I doubt that any of them would do it if they had no discretion about such matters as when they taught, how many people they taught, and whether they could decline to put their names on that certification for people in whom they had less than minimal confidence.

I don't know a CWP instructor who doesn't reserve the right to terminate a student for unsafe behavior, for example.

If I were a CWP instructor I am sure I would not certify a student who pointed a gun at me or anyone else even if he scored perfectly on both the written exam and the qualifying exam.

I also wouldn't certify a student who I overheard make statements about "wanting to carry because the damned _____ are ruining the country and he "wouldn't mind popping a few." (Fill in the blank with any race, religion, national origin.)"
 
Standing Wolf did a good job of describing the Colorado requirements, but I'll add my recent experience. In early December, I took a very good combined NRA Basic Pistol/Concealed Carry class in Denver. (Contact me by private message if anyone would like the details.)

Is the availability of the training reasonable (days and times available, class sizes, etc.)? Yes, quite a few individuals and ranges offer classes in and around Denver.

How often are people who attempt to sign up for the training turned down for whatever reason? Don't really know, but I'm not personally aware of anyone getting turned down.

How much does the training cost? The guy who gave my class charges $150 for a 12 hour weekend course and $125 for a 10 hour weekday evening course.

Is there a written test? Yes. I think the test we took was written by the NRA.

If so, how difficult is it? Is the test graded immediately and handed back so the student knows how they did, why each answer was correct or incorrect, and personally verify that the correct answer was the same for all students?
The test was very easy; I had never fired a handgun before and missed a perfect grade only because of one ambiguous question. Every student graded another student's test, and we got the results immediately.

Is there a practical test? Yes, shooting at silhouette targets from 3, 5 and 7 yards, as I recall.

If so, how difficult is it? Are the criteria for passing very clearly defined, and does the student have the opportunity to see their target so they can personally verify their passing/failing? Again, very easy to pass. I think the passing grade was 70, and I don't think anyone in our class received less than 95. The instructor recorded the make, model and serial number of the gun you used and said that he would keep the target indefinitely, apparently so if you get into a legal problem involving the gun, you can prove that you passed the test.
 
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I also got mine in Arizona, way back when 16 hours were required. Now I understand it's 8 hours. The only things I want to add are that my instructors wanted everyone to pass - they made it clear that if someone didn't pass either the written test or the range test, they would go over the material with that person and let them take it again. Same with the range test. I was surprised that you didn't have to shoot with your carry gun - I remember one guy who planned to carry a .357, but did his range test with a .22 long barrel pistol. No surprise, he passed. I hope he regularly practices with that .357!
 
Montana, no class needed only proof of a safety class. Used mine from 1962, No safety class, you can take hunters safety at any age for a nominal fee. Takes a couple of days of instruction and a field course (now) or you can take a NRA class at some of the clubs. There is nothing else required not even a shooting test.
 
Kansas just got theirs going. I think it was $125 for the class, and $150 for the liscence and $75 for the KBI background check. All total ~$350

The class was an all day session with Class room training from an NRA certified instructor, and about 2 hrs to put 30 guys n dolls through a 7 lane range. 20 of 25 shots in the pie plate on a pop bottle target at 15 yds. Any pistol, factory ammo.
 
Oregon has a pretty open training requirement, my class was about 3hrs all classroom basically just working through a big powerpoint. No live fire and no gun handling. Cost me $50
 
What state are you in?
Idaho

Is the availability of the training reasonable (days and times available, class sizes, etc.)?

Almost limitless Availability, we have a LOT of Certified Instructors in this state.
(I used RKGunsmithing in Nampa FYI)

How often are people who attempt to sign up for the training turned down for whatever reason?

Never.

How much does the training cost?

$50.00-$65.00

How long does the training take to complete?

No more than 8 Hours

Is there a written test?

Mine wasn't, Have yet to hear of one that is.

Is there a practical test?

Most are, in fact the one I went to included not only Dry-Fire Classroom Tests but also Live-Fire Range Drills.

If so, how difficult is it? Are the criteria for passing very clearly defined, and does the student have the opportunity to see their target so they can personally verify their passing/failing?

The Instructor I had, made it as easy as falling off a log for even the gun-shy people.

Are any statistics available on people who attempt to take the training and are turned down, or attempt to complete the training and fail, especially denial/failure percentages by race?

Nope, never seen such a thing.
 
CT
I had to take an 8 hour course, with 2 hours at the range, where all the students had to demonstrate the ability to safely load, unload, and fire a 9mm, .22, and a .38 special. It cost $130. As long as you hit the paper, you passed that portion. It was about safety, not marksmanship.
There was a written test that was pretty easy. No one in my class failed.
It is easy to find a class. Most shops either run them, or can direct you to someone who does.
 
VA requires completion of a gun safety class of some sort but the list of what meets the requirement is long. I took a basic hunter safety class 20 years ago (handguns were never mentioned) and it met the gun safety requirement when I applied for my concealed handgun permit. There's no legal requirement for a written test or shooting to apply for the CHP, but the particular course you take may require a written test or shooting.
 
What state are you in?

SC

Is the availability of the training reasonable (days and times available, class sizes, etc.)?

I had no trouble finding someone somewhere in the state offering CWP classes every weekend.

How often are people who attempt to sign up for the training turned down for whatever reason?

Don't really know, but I would suspect no one is turned down.

How much does the training cost?

~$100

How long does the training take to complete?

1 eight hour day

Is there a written test?

Yes

If so, how difficult is it? Is the test graded immediately and handed back so the student knows how they did, why each answer was correct or incorrect, and personally verify that the correct answer was the same for all students?

The test is so easy, if you can't pass it, you probably couldn't drive yourself to the class and have no business carrying a gun.

Is there a practical test?

I assume you mean test or qualification at a firing range.... ans. yes.

If so, how difficult is it? Are the criteria for passing very clearly defined, and does the student have the opportunity to see their target so they can personally verify their passing/failing?

If you can't pass the SC CWP range test, you have no business carrying a gun. It is very easy.

Are any statistics available on people who attempt to take the training and are turned down, or attempt to complete the training and fail, especially denial/failure percentages by race?

You have to be a complete idiot to fail in SC. I would expect the percentage so low that for all practicle purposes it is useless information.
 
Passing the test in TX is pretty automatic. You do a multiple choice test and a shooting test. There isn't really any discretion to fail someone based on race or ethnicity.

One can not 'pass' a person based on some bizarre behaviors. I doubt that such cases correlate with race. Those are usually reported to the DPS and a history of such would be easy to detect.

To prove such a case, one would need a pretty good sample and fairly sophisticated analysis to see a systematic bias as compared to one instructor who might be problematic.

TX is pretty diverse and I think we would have seen systematic bias as the minority communities are not particularly quite when such occurs.
 
TN requires a day of training, background check and a fee. The fee is high enough to be a barrier to lower income citizens and is therefore discriminatory.

Training is primarily supplied by commercial trainers and by some colleges and government offices (LE). It ranges in price from $50 to $150 depending upon the source.

In Eastern Tennessee it is easy to find the training as classes are given most weekends. Private training can be had on a one-on-one basis at any time.

There is both a practical shooting test and a written test.

The tests are nearly impossible to fail.
 
What state are you in?
Ohio - The Heart of it All

Is the availability of the training reasonable (days and times available, class sizes, etc.)?

Ads in the local rags for two or three different classes, every gun shop in the area has their particular instructor of choice and plenty of days and times available. For class sizes, mine was full and that was back in December - so take that as you will.

How often are people who attempt to sign up for the training turned down for whatever reason?

Only if they can't pay - training is open to anyone.

How much does the training cost?

I've seen as cheap as $35 up to $150 - and the differences between the two are amazing - cheap classes will get you a video class with no real question&answer or practical considerations. The most expensive class will usually be with a law enforcement officer (mine happened to be an armorer and marksmanship trainer for just about every major firearms manufacturer).

How long does the training take to complete?

* hours in the classroom, 2 hours on the range.

Is there a written test?

Yes, but it was pretty easy.

Is there a practical test?

Yes, same qualifier that police officers have to pass.

If so, how difficult is it? Are the criteria for passing very clearly defined, and does the student have the opportunity to see their target so they can personally verify their passing/failing?

Mine did, although at 7 yards, if you can't see your own target, you have bigger problems.

Are any statistics available on people who attempt to take the training and are turned down, or attempt to complete the training and fail, especially denial/failure percentages by race?

None that I know of but I'm sure they exist somewhere.
 
What state are you in?
Tennessee

Is the availability of the training reasonable (days and times available, class sizes, etc.)?
Yes! In my area there are about 2 or 3 organizations offering traning.

How often are people who attempt to sign up for the training turned down for whatever reason?
I don't know of anyone being turned down for reasons other than lack of room in the class.

How much does the training cost?
When I first got my permit in 1996, the cost was $75 plus $15 for each additional qualifying handgun. The law originally required the handgun to be carried to be noted on the permit. This has since changed.
I took a refresher course last summer from a shooting club. As a member my cost was $10. Non-Members paid $60.

How long does the training take to complete?
8 hours approx.

Is there a written test?
Yes.

If so, how difficult is it? Is the test graded immediately and handed back so the student knows how they did, why each answer was correct or incorrect, and personally verify that the correct answer was the same for all students?
Easy for an enthusiast. Somewhat harder for the novice. Test is graded immediately.

Is there a practical test?
Yes.

If so, how difficult is it? Are the criteria for passing very clearly defined, and does the student have the opportunity to see their target so they can personally verify their passing/failing?
Sixty rounds at various distances at standard silhouette. Minimum score required. I don't remember what it was. Scored immediately and student keeps the target if they wish. Note of interest: One middle aged lady using a 2" bbl .38 revolver shot the middle out of the target. Better than I did.

Are any statistics available on people who attempt to take the training and are turned down, or attempt to complete the training and fail, especially denial/failure percentages by race?
I doubt there are statistics available based on the refresher course I took. The class ran the gamut of race, gender, etc.
 
What state are you in?
New York (not NY City)

Is the availability of the training reasonable (days and times available, class sizes, etc.)?

There are plenty of training facilities in my area that offer these courses.

As for the requirements to apply, I took this from the County Website:
-- Show proof that you have had previous formal handgun training within the last three years.

A. A certificate or letter from a N.R.A. Basic Pistol shooting course.

OR
B. Active military ID or recent discharge papers. (3 years)

OR
C. Active police officer status or recently retired (3 years) Correction officer with current qualification card.

How much does the training cost?
Not sure, I fell under the former military category but it is approx. $130 to file the paperwork in my county.

How long does the training take to complete?
From what I heard it's broken down into 2 or 3 day courses totaling 9 hours.


I turned in my application in September 2007 and still haven't heard back yet. They say it may take up to 6 months. I needed 4 references from my county that I have known for at least 5 years to fill out papers to ‘vouch’ that I’m an upstanding citizen etc. Since NY State issues permits through your resident county (but are good for the whole state except NY City) it all depends on where you live and who is ‘in charge’.
 
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