Those of you that live in states with training requirements for a CCW...

[Foosinho]

I'm in Ohio, and my experience pretty closely matched the descriptions given by other Ohioans.

I don't know anyone who has failed the shooting portion anywhere around here.

The guy I was sharing a lane with during our practical failed. He was dreadful. We did some low-light shooting in our class, and he actually managed to completely miss the target - and it was a big target - at 21 feet.

He was also one of the two or three guys in my class who seemed to have a hard time grasping what the instructors were saying. They regularly failed to follow instructions, even after being told repeatedly not to do what they were doing, and failed to regularly follow the simple safety rules like keeping the booger hook of the bang switch. If these guys were this bad during/after a class, I dread to imagine what they were doing before the class. ND waiting to happen.

OTOH, there was one guy there who was taking the class purely for the CCL training requirement, and he was a darn good shot. Pretty much reused the same hole on his qualification target for all his bullets. We were joking that he was wasting the cartridges.

Personally, I found the class just about perfect. I had never fired a handgun before, and really didn't know how to check to see if one was loaded or how to make it safe. I found it very informative - and now when my father-in-law digs out his collection to show me, I know how to verify that the gun is unloaded, and I'm much more comfortable (and less worried about a ND). I hope to go take their advanced class later this year.

In my case, the class was $150, all inclusive. Then I had to pay the fee at the sheriff to get my CCL, which in my case came back in 23 hours (!!).

 

[Soybomb]

If a person had no idea how to safely and effectively use a firearm or had no proven understanding of the legal issues regarding the use of a firearm, would I feel comfortable with them carrying a loaded pistol around in public? No.

So if this imagined scenario actually happens, why can't we see some evidence of it? My take is a little different and I think people that are eligible to get permits to begin with are people that are probably pretty rational. It seems like they probably just aren't the type of people that would carry a lethal weapon without knowing how to use it or knowing the legal implications of it. Thats just a theory on why though, evidence that they do in fact do that in states without training/qualification would throw that right out the window.

No, I don’t have hard evidence to prove that states that require a range test have fewer problems than those that don’t.

That says it all for me.

When it all comes down to it, there is no existing problem that I am trying to fix.

So you're making it harder and more expensive to get a permit with no justification.

I am not saying the world would be a significantly safer place if Oregon required a range qualification portion of the CHL course.

I'd settle for seeing a small difference even. No one has ever shown me any difference even for states that don't even require a license at all to carry like alaska and vermont!

I’m simply saying that if it did require it, I’d wholeheartedly participate and be glad for the opportunity.

Glad for the opportunity to take a test that people who have never fired a gun before pass? To each his own but it seems like you'd be better served to seek out actual training if you wanted a good opportunity.

That can’t be a bad thing, can it?

Can making it more expensive and involved for a person to get a concealed carry permit for no benefit be a bad thing? Absolutely. I want as many good armed people as possible and making it harder with no justification does not get us there.

 

[newkahrman]

I live in radford va and got my ccl about 8 years ago. All i had to do was fill out a form at the courthouse, take it to the police department for the background check, they sent it back to the courthouse and the judge signed off on it. When i went back to get it renewed last spring I discovered that they are now requiring a class. i was exempt because i already had my permit. I have been raised on safe gun practice since I was about 11 years old so I have always treated any weapon with the respect it deserves. I would like to take the course to learn about the legal issues of self defense shooting. I do think the course is a good idea.

 

[newkahrman]

Keep in mind history tells us that the more people who are carrying, the less chance there is that any of us will ever have to fire our weapon in self defense.

 

[esq_stu]

Michigan
Typically NRA certified trainers, except the legal part must be taught by a lawyer or LEO
Typically $150-$200 plus ammo
no test; some trainers threaten to not give a certificate if unsafe behavior is not corrected
you don't have to be a great shot - just competent
28.425j Pistol training or safety program; conditions.
Sec. 5j. (1) A pistol training or safety program described in section 5b(7)(c) meets the requirements for knowledge or training in the safe use and handling of a pistol only if the program consists of not less than 8 hours of instruction and all of the following conditions are met:
(a) The program is certified by this state or a national or state firearms training organization and provides 5 hours of instruction in, but is not limited to providing instruction in, all of the following:
(i) The safe storage, use, and handling of a pistol including, but not limited to, safe storage, use, and handling to protect child safety.
(ii) Ammunition knowledge, and the fundamentals of pistol shooting.
(iii) Pistol shooting positions.
(iv) Firearms and the law, including civil liability issues and the use of deadly force. This portion shall be taught by an attorney or an individual trained in the use of deadly force.
(v) Avoiding criminal attack and controlling a violent confrontation.
(vi) All laws that apply to carrying a concealed pistol in this state.
(b) The program provides at least 3 hours of instruction on a firing range and requires firing at least 30 rounds of ammunition.

 

[-terry]

Well, there's a complication (isn't there always a complication). If your state has no training requirement, very few other states will accept reciprocal CCW agreements. WA is a good example. Very few other states are reciprocal with WA. On the other hand, UT, FL, etc. that have training requirements have huge reciprocals. Take your pick. For me, I wish WA had some reasonable training requirement so we would have lots of reciprocals and I wouldn't have to take a training course anyway to get the OR, UT, or FL permits.

 

[Soybomb]

Well, there's a complication (isn't there always a complication). If your state has no training requirement, very few other states will accept reciprocal CCW agreements. WA is a good example. Very few other states are reciprocal with WA. On the other hand, UT, FL, etc. that have training requirements have huge reciprocals. Take your pick. For me, I wish WA had some reasonable training requirement so we would have lots of reciprocals and I wouldn't have to take a training course anyway to get the OR, UT, or FL permits.

I think the only logical way to go about this is to try to fix the states that have training requirements and not "break" the states that work properly now. As it is I can carry in 22 states and have not taken a state mandated training class. Adding both a utah and florida permit would get me 9 extra states. It seems like we're at a good place to fix those states with training requirements and shouldn't even be talking about throwing out the system that is working well in the current 22 to appease the remaining states.

Its going to take the concealed carry holders to want to make that change though and as you've seen in this thread, many of them support such restrictions on concealed carry.

 

[Craig_AR]

A Little More in VA

Several have already posted about the Virginia training requirement. Here is some amplification.
Essentially ANY training in firearms safety that you can document counts. This includes any NRA course, any course taught by an NRA certified instructor, any hunting safety course, any course taught by an instructor recognized by state wildlife, and so forth. You can also present an honorable discharge (DD214) from any U.S. military service. Presumably this means the state recognizes firearms training given in Basic Training.
There is no recency requirement. If you enlisted in the Air Force at 18, served in admin jobs for 20 years, never doing recurring training, retire at 38 with 20, continue to work for a living, then retire civilian at 65, and decide to start carrying, you can present that 27 year old discharge documenting traiing 47 years earlier and it counts.
With regard to concerns over instructors keeping you from getting the CHP by failing you - there is no need to tell the instructor why you are taking the class. As far as they know, you intend to shoot only at a range.
There are ranges, gun shops, and NRA instructors who teach a Concealed Carry class. These tend to be a Basic Handgun class to which they add topics on CC laws in VA, selection of gun, ways to carry concealed, selection of holster, etc.

craig

 

[hecate]

What state are you in? Nebraska. http://www.nsp.state.ne.us/Docs/Forms/CCW_Rules_and_Regs.pdf

Is the availability of the training reasonable (days and times available, class sizes, etc.)? Yes, once there were sufficient instructors certified and curricula approved, all classes and instructors have to be certified by the State Patrol, class size cannot exceed 25 students.

How often are people who attempt to sign up for the training turned down for whatever reason? Never that I've heard of, but the class is intended for people with shooting experience, not total novices.

How much does the training cost? About $125-$150 most places.

How long does the training take to complete? Most classes run two days, one for the 5-6 hour classroom portion and one for the 2-3 hour range time.

Is there a written test? Yes.

If so, how difficult is it? Is the test graded immediately and handed back so the student knows how they did, why each answer was correct or incorrect, and personally verify that the correct answer was the same for all students? Tests are supplied by the State Patrol, 30 questions, pretty similar to an NRA test, passing score 70%, graded immediately as a group and incorrect answers are discussed.

Is there a practical test? Yes.

If so, how difficult is it? Are the criteria for passing very clearly defined, and does the student have the opportunity to see their target so they can personally verify their passing/failing? Firing 30 rounds on an FBI "Q" target, passing score 70%, distances 1-3-5-7 yards, including drawing from concealment, student has three chances to pass, targets are scored immediately with the student present.

Are any statistics available on people who attempt to take the training and are turned down, or attempt to complete the training and fail, especially denial/failure percentages by race? Nobody is prevented from taking the training, unknown so far as to percentage who fail, possibly because 2007 was the first year for the permit process.

 

[Robert Hairless]

A lot of people, me included, are of the opinion that some states' training requirements (not to mention licensing fees in many cases!) are little more than a literacy test, intended solely to prevent certain groups of people from legally carrying concealed. How do the facts stack up against this belief?

Frankly, all of your posts I've read have been borderline trolling. Your posts are well-written and have some thought put into them, but you always assume that because a person expresses some opinion you disagree with, they have to be some kind of crazy extremist that also believes everything else you disagree with.

Quit constructing straw men, and you may find yourself actually changing peoples' minds.

Nasty, nasty Ryan. Shame on you.

You wrote that "a lot of people" including you believe that "some states' training requirements (not to mention licensing fees in many cases!) are little more than a literacy test, intended solely to prevent certain groups of people from legally carrying concealed."

You're now backpedaling and lashing out at me because I responded to what you wrote, which was indeed "crazy extremist" and still seems so despite your backpedaling.

My response to you wasn't about race and didn't mention or imply it as a subtext. I didn't know which "certain groups of people" you were talking about because you didn't specify them. That's why I asked you "Which of those certain groups of people do you and those great many other people have in mind?" Your recent lecture on racism is inappropriate. Not everyone is a racist, though you evidently seem to think so. Shame on you.

One of the major points in my response to you is that CWP instructors are individuals. I take your point that as individuals they vary in attitudes and beliefs, but who could possibly believe otherwise except someone who asserts the belief that because they do exercise discretion in signing off on a student they have racist or other evil in their hearts. That's your major point. Nasty.

You and your "lot of people" talk about "some states" and "certain groups of people": vagueness heaped upon vagueness, nothing specific, all insinuation, and predominantly nasty.

I wasn't trying to change your mind. Who would be foolish enough to believe that some Internet messages can undo such paranoia. I was responding because, as I said repeatedly, the many CWP instructors I know have begnin motives rather than the discriminatory motivations you suggest.

You want the ability to say outrageous things about other people with impunity. When challenged you call it "trolling" and attack. Nasty.

Back to the subject of the thread: your insinuation that CWP instructors in "some states" who exercise discretion are practicing discrimination against "certain groups of people." You've received many specific responses. Not one supports your opinion or that of "a lot of people" you say share your opinion. Surprise me and change your opinion. Do it for them, not for me. Have they changed your mind?

 

[RyanM]

Well, you've shown beyond any doubt that you are, indeed a troll. Sorry, no food for you.

 

[Hanzerik]

My Military ID covered the proof of firearms familiarization requirement for Wyoming.

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

I'm from Pennsylvania, licenced there, and SOL for getting a permit in SC.

It isn't the training, its the lack of reciprocity and the state's outright refusal to issue nonres permits.

 

[springfield30-06]

What state are you in?
New York (not NY City)

Is the availability of the training reasonable (days and times available, class sizes, etc.)?

There are plenty of training facilities in my area that offer these courses.

As for the requirements to apply, I took this from the County Website:
-- Show proof that you have had previous formal handgun training within the last three years.

A. A certificate or letter from a N.R.A. Basic Pistol shooting course.

OR
B. Active military ID or recent discharge papers. (3 years)

OR
C. Active police officer status or recently retired (3 years) Correction officer with current qualification card.

How much does the training cost?
Not sure, I fell under the former military category but it is approx. $130 to file the paperwork in my county.

How long does the training take to complete?
From what I heard it's broken down into 2 or 3 day courses totaling 9 hours.


I turned in my application in September 2007 and still haven't heard back yet. They say it may take up to 6 months. I needed 4 references from my county that I have known for at least 5 years to fill out papers to ‘vouch’ that I’m an upstanding citizen etc. Since NY State issues permits through your resident county (but are good for the whole state except NY City) it all depends on where you live and who is ‘in charge’.

Just got my pistol license approval in the mail today! It took almost exactly 5 months.

 

[Chortdraw]

Arizona...... Am getting ready to take the course in mid Feb. The class fee here where I live is $139 and is a 8hr. course. Seems AZ. has a lot of different prices for the CCW course. Plus a $10.00 fee to finger print. 50 rounds will be shot on the course. Not sure about the written test yet. Guess I will soon find out.