Titegroup and Power Pistol

[ElGuero]

Merry Christmas, everyone!

After reloading today, I mindlessly emptied my powder measure, and added 3-4 ounces of Power Pistol to the wrong canister, which had 6+ pounds of Titegroup.

Because it will be mentioned, I didn’t have more than one canister on the bench, I had zero canisters; I grabbed the wrong one, and realized after what I’d done.

I have some 38 spl loaded with (untainted) Titegroup, so I’m inclined to make up some loads with the same weight of tainted Titegroup, and compare over the chronograph in my 357 Blackhawk.

Thoughts?

 

[Buck13]

If your numbers are correct, you only have 4% contaminating PP in there. I'm sure I'll be in the minority in this opinion, but if you could mix the PP into the TG uniformly, I'd be very surprised if you could really tell the difference in the resulting ammo.

I'd be tempted to pour it into a clean plastic bucket, stir it slowly with a wooden spoon (outdoors), and put it back in the TG bottle.

Remember that this opinion is worth exactly what you payed for it (and I'm not talking about the cost of your computer and ISP).

 

[ElGuero]

Thanks, Buck. My numbers are conservative (closer to 7 pounds Titegroup and 3 ounces PP), which combined with the close-ish burn rates, and the contaminant being slower, led me to think it might be worth trying.

if it was 25% Titegroup in H110 for 454 Casull loads, I’d fertilize the plants.

 

[Walkalong]

I'd tear up while I tossed it out.

 

[Rule3]

I would burn up the TiteGroup powder even if it wasn't contaminated!

Make small piles of it on the road or dirt with connecting trails. light it and get away. Heck save it for New Years Eve. Cheaper than firework fountains. Lots of fun!

 

[sparkyv]

If your numbers are correct, you only have 4% contaminating PP in there. I'm sure I'll be in the minority in this opinion, but if you could mix the PP into the TG uniformly, I'd be very surprised if you could really tell the difference in the resulting ammo.

I'd be tempted to pour it into a clean plastic bucket, stir it slowly with a wooden spoon (outdoors), and put it back in the TG bottle.

Remember that this opinion is worth exactly what you payed for it (and I'm not talking about the cost of your computer and ISP).

I'm of the same opinion because the amount of PP in the TG is relatively small. I'd ensure it was relatively well-mixed and work up some range/plinking TG loads with it. There's NO WAY I'd fertilize with this 7# of this ever so slightly contaminated TG powder. Keep good notes in case this combination works better than expected!

 

[whughett]

Burn rate 15th for Titegroup 35th for Power Pistol

I’d err on the side of caution and follow the moderators advise.

 

[rfwobbly]

Throw it out. Take it as an expensive lesson learned. In the future maybe not only have one can out, but have it placed in a prominent location on the benchtop.

 

[SCC]

This is the primary reason for working from 1# bottles, refilled from the 8#ers. Back in high school chemistry class I was instructed to never put excess of a chemical back in the original container. Either use it, store in in another clearly labeled container, or neutralize and dispose of it. This is one of the few lessons from that class that's stuck with me through the years.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I didn’t have more than one canister on the bench, I had zero canisters; I grabbed the wrong one, and realized after what I’d done.

That is why the rejoinder to "Only have one canister out at a time" is "Leave the canister you are using out on the bench"

I wouldn't even consider not throwing it out...erring on the side of caution when dealing with powder is the right thing to do

 

[LiveLife]

Welcome to THR.

As to mixing powders, I believe we have only endorsed mixing small remaining powder of same exact powder but different lot number into the new container.

I cannot recommend mixing two different powders as we cannot predict the exact burn characteristics of resulting mix.

Throw it out. Take it as an expensive lesson learned.

That is why the rejoinder to "Only have one canister out at a time" is "Leave the canister you are using out on the bench"

I wouldn't even consider not throwing it out

+1. We all have made reloading mistakes we learned from and became safer reloaders.

I bet from now on, you will only have one container of powder on the bench and double/triple check before putting powder back in the container.

 

[9mmepiphany]

This is the primary reason for working from 1# bottles, refilled from the 8#ers. Back in high school chemistry class I was instructed to never put excess of a chemical back in the original container. Either use it, store in in another clearly labeled container, or neutralize and dispose of it. This is one of the few lessons from that class that's stuck with me through the years.

I learned the same lesson...along with whether to pour water into acid or acid into water; also not to hold your nose over a container when sniffing the contents.

I have 1lb bottles of every powder that I use just for this reason

 

[Walkalong]

This is the primary reason for working from 1# bottles, refilled from the 8#ers

Yes, that is what I do, so a mistake is smaller if it happens. We still have to be careful, whether it is moving powder from an 8 to a 1, etc, or simply putting it back into the same jug. Every time we pour powder we should read and reread the labels.

The first time one does this is when they get more serious about it.

 

[film495]

if they are 38 Special loads going through a 357 Revolver, seems reasonable. However - you're probably better off to get new powder, maybe you made the same mistake before and did not notice. It would be one less thing to worry about anyways.

 

[ThomasT]

I bet from now on, you will only have one container of powder on the bench and double/triple check before putting powder back in the container.

Because it will be mentioned, I didn’t have more than one canister on the bench, I had zero canisters; I grabbed the wrong one, and realized after what I’d done.

He plainly stated in his first post he didn't have any containers on the bench. He grabbed the wrong one from the cabinet. Pretty simple reading if you take the time to read the whole post.

I would use the powder. That small amount of powder wouldn't bother me at all. I would start with a lower dose of the main powder and work up with a chronograph. I remember reading a well know writer who made his own Accurate #8 by mixing #7 and #9 in equal amounts. And remember ammo companies use blended powder all the time. Not the same canister powder you and I use.

 

[LiveLife]

He plainly stated in his first post he didn't have any containers on the bench.

And if you read my post, you would have noticed I wrote "from now on" ... have only one container on the bench, the way it should be.

I bet from now on, you will only have one container of powder on the bench

 

[Hondo 60]

Label it VERY clearly & in the spring sprinkle it on the lawn; away from kids & pets.
The nitrogen is very good for your lawn.

I'd stay away from the flower beds too.
It might be too much & burn the flowers.

Or heck burn it.
That would be more fun.
(atleast to me it would)

 

[Rule3]

Why do people persist in this use it as fertilizer" internet nonsense?.
Smokless powder is NOT a good fertilizer. You may end up doing more damage. In order to use a fertilizer one has to know the amount of Nitrogen in the bag (what ever ratio it is) then calculate the rate of N per 1,000sq ft,
Even if the 7 pounds of powder was a real lawn fertilizer, 7pound is not gonna cover very much.

Either pour it in a line and ignite it or soak it water and dispose of it,

https://www.lawn-care-academy.com/fertilizer-rates.html

http://prepforshtf.com/storage-handling-disposal-smokeless-powder/

 

[ElGuero]

Burn rate 15th for Titegroup 35th for Power Pistol

I’d err on the side of caution and follow the moderators advise.

Hypothetically, would you use it if it was Bullseye instead of Power Pistol, mixed in the same proportion to Titegroup?

 

[ThomasT]

Yes. Did you see the part in my other post where I stated ammo factories use blended powder all the time? If you are anywhere near Ft Worth Tx and want to sell this powder at a reduced price I will buy it. I don't think there is a thing in the world wrong with it. I would just start low and watch the speed and pressure and use it.

I have read several articles where the author used duplex loads. Loads with one speed of powder in the case first then a different speed of powder on top and a compressed load to keep it from mixing. That was way more trouble than I would have went through but shows that it can be done. But I for sure would not pour it in the yard.

 

[ElGuero]

Yes. Did you see the part in my other post where I stated ammo factories use blended powder all the time? If you are anywhere near Ft Worth Tx and want to sell this powder at a reduced price I will buy it. I don't think there is a thing in the world wrong with it. I would just start low and watch the speed and pressure and use it.

I have read several articles where the author used duplex loads. Loads with one speed of powder in the case first then a different speed of powder on top and a compressed load to keep it from mixing. That was way more trouble than I would have went through but shows that it can be done. But I for sure would not pour it in the yard.

I did see your post. My question was to whughett — I’m curious where the line he won’t cross is, in terms of burn rates and (ACCIDENTALLY) mixing powders.

 

[ThomasT]

Here is a powder burn rate chart. There is not a lot of seperation between the two powders. That burn rate area is crowded and they can't all fit on the same line so they are stacked but still very similar. As long as you mixed a small amount of slower powder in with a slightly faster powder you will be OK. Just use the load data for the faster powder. If nothing else your loads will be a little slower than expected.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2018/08/get-latest-powder-burn-rate-chart-here/

I like this chart because it shows powders of the same burn rate on the same line. As you can see there is not that large a difference between TG and PP.

https://www.frfrogspad.com/burnrate.htm

 

[Walkalong]

In reality there is a good bit of difference in burn speed between Tightgroup and Power Pistol. They absolutely cannot be substituted for each other, and PP data with TG would be way over pressure.

If mixed thoroughly and used could you get away with it? Probably. Would I recommend it? Heck no.

Many years ago I had some leftover HS-6 and AA#5 (Much closer in burn rate to each other than TG & PP) and I mixed them in even proportions. I used starting data and the velocities I got were eye opening .

I tossed it out and never again.

Your house, your rules, your hand, your eyes.

 

[ThomasT]

They absolutely cannot be substituted for each other, and PP data with TG would be way over pressure.

He mixed a tiny amount of a slower burning powder in a large container of faster burning powder and I suggested only using the data for the faster powder and starting low. And I offered to even buy the powder if he is just going to pour it out. Anyway no matter to me. I have said all I know to say to the OP.

 

[LiveLife]

Would I recommend it? Heck no.

My sentiment also.

He mixed a tiny amount of a slower burning powder in a large container of faster burning powder and I suggested only using the data for the faster powder and starting low.

Many years ago I had some leftover HS-6 and AA#5 (Much closer in burn rate to each other than TG & PP) and I mixed them in even proportions. I used starting data and the velocities I got were eye opening . I tossed it out and never again.

This is "High Road" ... and generally we stick to published load data. And when we test beyond the published or unpublished load data, we post details of our testing.

So you are suggesting to another member something that is not published and something most other members, including the moderator of H&R category, do not recommend.

If testing of mixed powders in known proportions was something that was done by another member and collected data posted, that would be something. But that's not the case here. If you have test data of mixed powders and properly calibrated reliable velocities/pressures measured, I would be interested but without such data, making suggestion that it may be OK to use mixed powders is, IMO not "High Road".

If you are so sure doing such thing is OK, why not try it yourself and get back to us?

And if you are unwilling to do it yourself, why would you suggest it to another member?