Tumbling cast balls

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billnpatti

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I have been shooting muzzleloaders for years and have just cast and used my balls as they came from the mold. I had read about folks putting their cast balls in a wooden box and keeping it in the trunk of their car for several days to roll them round and smooth them out. I happened to remember a rock tumbler that had been in my basement for a few years and thought I'd give it a try in place of the wooden box treatment. I had about 500 cast .50 cal balls that I was willing to experiment with. I thoroughly washed out the tumbler and let it dry completely. I put the cast balls in it and turned it on. I let the balls tumble for several hours and then went back to see what had happened to them. I was amazed that they looked like shiny black ball bearings. The sprue marks were almost completely invisible. I could only see them very faintly in bright light. I think I'm on to something. Has anyone else done this? Hell, maybe a lot of people do this and I'm just reinventing the wheel. I don't know but I am excited that I found this on my own. If you haven't tried this and you have a rock tumbler, you might want to give it a try.
 
My brother had this to say:

" I believe what you describe is similar to the ball mill used in making black powder"
 
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I know people that have been doing this for years. I have been thinking about getting the rock tumbler. I do something a litlle different that accomplishes the same thing.

I have two flat 12" slate tiles. On one, I have placed a 1/2 " nylon rope around the edge of the slate. I place the balls between the two tiles and turn them about 30 times clockwise and 30 times counter-clockwise with the weight of one hand. Sprue is removed and any irregularities in diameter are taken out. Can do 3-500 .69 cal. balls in an hour.
 
Does anyone measure the round balls to see if they shrink much?

Wouldn't it work better or faster to put sand or a tumbling media in the drum?
 
I just use a old whisky glass & place 15-20 in it at a time & spin them in the glass 10-12 times, it doesn't get the sprue completely out but it does make it near perfectly round.
 
Don't use sand. It'll get embedded in the lead and then do bad things to your barrel.

I'm not sure if sand would get embedded in lead balls at all because the grains are relatively large and the tumbling impact low, and any surface grit or dust can be rinsed and rubbed off to be removed.
Special polishing media is designed to be very gentle.
Good tumblers may even have an RPM control.
Plus round balls are patched when used in BP rifles which protects the barrel.
I asked about measuring the balls not only to see how much lead is removed if any, but to see if anyone measures to see if they actually are rounder rather than to simply assess their roundness using their naked eye and noticing that the sprue has been reduced.
Many folks have said that wooden ramrods can pick up debris too, but I've yet to notice any harm done to a crown just be using one. If it drops on the ground, wiping it off is usually sufficient to remove surface debris. :)
 
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Sand LOVES to embed into soft things like lead. And it would be all much to likely to happen. Besides an abrasive media is intended to remove material. In this case the idea is to merely reshape any protrusions back into the ball. The less lead actually removed the better.

Which brings up my next question.... After tumbling was there a residue of lead powder? I'd suppose there would be SOME but I'd also want to see it as a very minimal amount. And did you guage the balls to see what the final size was compared to the average cast size?

Perspiring minds need to know.... :D

As for the swirling them around in a glass I've heard of lead crystal but I REALLY don't think this is how it is done.... :D
 
mykeal said:
With or without the whisky?

Without ofcorse, the whisky really turns the balls a dark ominus color.. :rolleyes:

BCRider said:
As for the swirling them around in a glass I've heard of lead crystal but I REALLY don't think this is how it is done....

Now he tells me.. :neener:

Ratdog68 said:
Well... wha'da'ya expect from someone who primarily shoots a bow with training wheels?

ooo, that is a low blow from even a Yank...
I'm gettin better, I haven't looked at the training wheels since February.
 
Yes, there was a small bit of fine dust left clinging to the inside of the tumbler when I wiped it out. It would probably weigh far less than a grain and that is for about 300 to 500 .50 cal balls. It was just enough dust to leave a dirty smudge on the wet rag. There were a very few lead flakes that had broken off some of the balls but they, too, were not enough to make a significant difference. I'll have to admit that I did not measure the diameter of the balls before and after tumbling. Next time I have some to tumble, I am going to measure about 100 balls before tumbling and again after tumbling to see if there is a measurable difference. I will pick 100 at random before tumbling and then 100 at random after tumbling. By using as many as 100 balls, I should get a farily representative sample.

One thing I noticed was that I got a much more shiney surface on the tumbled balls when there were more in the tumbler. The first load that I did was about 500 balls and they turned out nice and shiney. Later, I found a can of about 80 to 100 balls on my shelf that had been cast some time back. I tumbled them for about the same length of time but they came out less shiney than the first batch. I think it was due to the fact that fewer balls mean more room to tumble and they strike together more than a full load which I would expect to do more rolling than actual tumbling.

I have never considered adding anything, especially nothing abrasive, to the tumbler. I don't suppose water would hurt anything but I can see no purpose that it might serve, either. Since I am having such good results with the way I am doing it now, I can see no reason to mess with what is working.

Whenever I have another batch of balls to tumble, I will post the results of measuring them before and after tumbling. If any of you scientific types have any ideas for improving my pre and post tumbling paradigm, let me know.
 
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I do, in fact, use a patched round ball in my rifle. However, my thoughts on tumbling them was that if they were more smooth and spherical, they might fly a bit more true. This would be due to a more lamnar flow of air over the surface of the ball. Most assuredly, the air flow is not perfectly lamnar in either case but I suspect that the closer one comes to achieving a perfect lamnar flow, the truer the ball flies. The effect of having random imperfections on the side of the ball in flight is the reason many shooters will make a conserted effort to load their balls with the sprue up. I am not an aeronautical engineer so my suppositions are based upon my limited training in college physics. I could be wrong but I don't think so.
 
I've heard that some competition shooters actually roll their balls between 2 rough surfaces to impart more texture on to the surface of their round balls.
That may be to increase the amount of grip that the patch has on the ball as it spins through the barrel at high velocity.
I also wonder if having small dimples on the surface would make the ball fly more aerodynamically like a golf ball does?
I just read in Popular Science about how after market adhesive panels imprinted with golf ball like dimples are being applied to the front end of cars to obtain better gas mileage. It's the new wave of the future! ;)
 
Captain Queeg them.

Take a handful to work every day and play with your balls in your pocket.


Lord forgive me and all the starving Pygmy's in Africa!
rc
 
I had a thought. Then I read rc's post. That thought flew right out of my head.
I'm going to go back to drinking my whiskey now. With no lead in the glass.

jim
 
I do, in fact, use a patched round ball in my rifle. However, my thoughts on tumbling them was that if they were more smooth and spherical, they might fly a bit more true. This would be due to a more lamnar flow of air over the surface of the ball. Most assuredly, the air flow is not perfectly lamnar in either case but I suspect that the closer one comes to achieving a perfect lamnar flow, the truer the ball flies. The effect of having random imperfections on the side of the ball in flight is the reason many shooters will make a conserted effort to load their balls with the sprue up. I am not an aeronautical engineer so my suppositions are based upon my limited training in college physics. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

You've got the right idea but it's not going to work in THIS case.

I've designed, built and flown model airplanes for much of my life and studied at a hobby level aerodynamics out of intrest in making a better model.

A round ball will see laminar flow over the front half and for a very short way around the waist. Let's consider the side view of a ball flying through the air. The 9 o'clock position is the front. By the time the air flows to the 1 o'clock and 5 o'clock points it's already separating from the surface and turbulating to form a highly tubulent wake.

The dimples on a golf ball act as surface flow invigorators, sometimes called turbulators as well. This busts up the laminar flow early and forms a thinner but "sticky" thin turbulent layer that effectively bonds the laminar flow a few thousandths of an inch above the turbulent layer to the surface much better than a truly clean laminar flow.

If we take a dimpled BP ball and look at the airflow the laminar flow will now follow around the waist of the ball and not spearate until more like the 2 and 4 o'clock points. This doesn't sound like much but the cross section area of the wake is now probably 1/2 or less than it was when it separated at the 1 and 5 o'clock points. That becomes a HUGE reduction in drag and dimpled golf balls fly probably 1.5 times further.

On a golf ball there's no way to know how it'll turn and spin so it has to be totally covered in dimples. With our BP balls the spin ensures that the same point is always facing forward. So if we were to cut or mold some rings in the forward side of the ball just before the waist it would do the same thing as all the dimples on the the golf ball but with the advantage of some small amount of actual laminar flow before the air hits the invigorator rings.

The problem is that now you need to load the ball with the ring evenly placed. Not something that would work with a long rammed home rifle barrel but perhaps with a cap and ball revolver it would work. Then you need some way to test for drop at something like 200 yards to see how they compare.

For anyone with a lathe to turn the grooves it would be easy to do. Or if you can make a cup to hold the ball you can even form the groove by hand.
 
The problem is that now you need to load the ball with the ring evenly placed. Not something that would work with a long rammed home rifle barrel but perhaps with a cap and ball revolver it would work. Then you need some way to test for drop at something like 200 yards to see how they compare.

Perhaps when you just start the ball in the muzzle, you could scribe a ring around the ball using the muzzle as a guide. Then seat the ball on down. The ring should be evenly place using that technique.
 
I understand what you are saying and I agree......up to a point.
Since it is not possible to put evenly spaced dimples all over the rifle ball in a properly spaced pattern as they do on golf balls and have them remain exactly as originally made, I still think the best alternative is the smooth ball. It simply eliminates the necessity of carefully locating the sprue either straight up or straight down.

You may be on to something when you say that it could be beneficial to devise a device that would place dimples or aerodynamically equivalent markings on the ball after it is loaded. Perhaps a device to attach to the tip of the ramrod that could be rapped with a small mallet to make the desired markings on the ball. One would have to determine the most advantageous arrangement, spacing and depth for the markings. Even so, I expect the market for these would be the target shooters, bench guns and chunk guns. The average muzzleloader fan would probably not care to take the time to mark each of his balls at loading. Still, it is an idea worthy of consideration. Care to take it on?
 
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